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Post by wertongas on Aug 29, 2022 12:38:48 GMT
You seriously can't see we're better off? Even though we now own our own ground, multi million pound training facilities, no debt, no loans, good budgets? And I'm not sure part of the Higgs - Wael buy out was that he expected a new Stadium. From what I can vaguely remember, Eastville was a dump.Being a old git and i can remember Eastville, calling it a dump is being polite.... a complete tip and sh&thole would be better It was a shi*thole but so were most other grounds at the time, Chelsea had a shed, Charlton, Sunderland and many others wide open terraces, but at least Eastville supported us in the second tier for many years something the Mem couldn't do in its present form. unfortunately we have not been able to keep up with the progress of many other clubs of a similar size.
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Post by keygas on Aug 29, 2022 13:19:04 GMT
You seriously can't see we're better off? Even though we now own our own ground, multi million pound training facilities, no debt, no loans, good budgets? And I'm not sure part of the Higgs - Wael buy out was that he expected a new Stadium. From what I can vaguely remember, Eastville was a dump.Being a old git and i can remember Eastville, calling it a dump is being polite.... a complete tip and sh&thole would be better I always thought growing up Eastville was fine & created its own special atmosphere until the south stand fire, after which season upon season it fell into a sorry state. Still think if we had managed to own it, with the M32 & Stapleton Road train station on the doorstep, a first class stadium could have been developed there much to the benefit of the club & the surrounding area.
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Post by Topper Gas on Aug 29, 2022 13:23:13 GMT
Being a old git and i can remember Eastville, calling it a dump is being polite.... a complete tip and sh&thole would be better It was a shi*thole but so were most other grounds at the time, Chelsea had a shed, Charlton, Sunderland and many others wide open terraces, but at least Eastville supported us in the second tier for many years something the Mem couldn't do in its present form. unfortunately we have not been able to keep up with the progress of many other clubs of a similar size. The South Stand hadn't burnt down when we were in the second tier, although suggesting we survived in that division for many years is stretching the facts a bit when it was only around 5 to 6 years from memory, which wasn't that much longer than we did at Twerton, which just shows how quickly the games moved on.
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Post by Big Jock on Aug 29, 2022 13:23:57 GMT
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Post by wertongas on Aug 29, 2022 13:53:25 GMT
it is right to say Wael may have saved the club from administration, but so did the Dunford's and Higgs, when we left Eastville we were in a lot worse situation than when Wael took over, we didn't own anything and the Dunford's astutely saved us turned the club around and got us our own ground. They had put as much into the club as they could and couldn't take the club any further so sold out to Nick Higgs . But under the previous owners we had our own training ground and when we were Eastville although we didn't own the stadium it did have a capacity of getting on for 30,000 and we managed to sustain what is now championship football for many years . When Wael and his family took over, Higgs I believe from what he said expected the the new owners to go on ahead and build UWE , it didn't happen and we are now no better off than we were in the 70's that is depressing. Wael keeping us afloat is no different to any of the previous owners, so i can't see where the progress is, fair enough thanks to the Dunford's we own our ground but there has been little other progress. You seriously can't see we're better off? Even though we now own our own ground, multi million pound training facilities, no debt, no loans, good budgets? And I'm not sure part of the Higgs - Wael buy out was that he expected a new Stadium. From what I can vaguely remember, Eastville was a dump. i can remember talking to TG a few years back at the time we had 16million in debt and those debts were set to rise, after the passing of Waels Dad he managed to pay the debt off and has been ever since, no different to any other owner and there is no guarantee that this will continue in the future . Thing is most foreign owners of English clubs set up a parent company in a tax haven and use the club to invest their money, in the hope of growing their investment, promotion to the Championship is immediately worth an additional 7- 8 million a year to the club and its owner , that has to be Wael and family the goal, to sustain that the owners need a new stadium or least better facilities than we have at the moment , none of that aim has been achieved so far. Remember Wael and his family are bankers/ investors they will want to see a return on their investments
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Post by wertongas on Aug 29, 2022 13:56:15 GMT
It was a shi*thole but so were most other grounds at the time, Chelsea had a shed, Charlton, Sunderland and many others wide open terraces, but at least Eastville supported us in the second tier for many years something the Mem couldn't do in its present form. unfortunately we have not been able to keep up with the progress of many other clubs of a similar size. The South Stand hadn't burnt down when we were in the second tier, although suggesting we survived in that division for many years is stretching the facts a bit when it was only around 5 to 6 years from memory, which wasn't that much longer than we did at Twerton, which just shows how quickly the games moved on. 7 seasons compared to 2 or 3 at Twerton
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 29, 2022 14:44:52 GMT
It could be a lot worse, the scran at the mem isnt this bad...
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Post by baggins on Aug 29, 2022 15:31:56 GMT
You seriously can't see we're better off? Even though we now own our own ground, multi million pound training facilities, no debt, no loans, good budgets? And I'm not sure part of the Higgs - Wael buy out was that he expected a new Stadium. From what I can vaguely remember, Eastville was a dump. i can remember talking to TG a few years back at the time we had 16million in debt and those debts were set to rise, after the passing of Waels Dad he managed to pay the debt off and has been ever since, no different to any other owner and there is no guarantee that this will continue in the future . Thing is most foreign owners of English clubs set up a parent company in a tax haven and use the club to invest their money, in the hope of growing their investment, promotion to the Championship is immediately worth an additional 7- 8 million a year to the club and its owner , that has to be Wael and family the goal, to sustain that the owners need a new stadium or least better facilities than we have at the moment , none of that aim has been achieved so far. Remember Wael and his family are bankers/ investors they will want to see a return on their investments So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago.
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Post by wertongas on Aug 29, 2022 16:00:35 GMT
i can remember talking to TG a few years back at the time we had 16million in debt and those debts were set to rise, after the passing of Waels Dad he managed to pay the debt off and has been ever since, no different to any other owner and there is no guarantee that this will continue in the future . Thing is most foreign owners of English clubs set up a parent company in a tax haven and use the club to invest their money, in the hope of growing their investment, promotion to the Championship is immediately worth an additional 7- 8 million a year to the club and its owner , that has to be Wael and family the goal, to sustain that the owners need a new stadium or least better facilities than we have at the moment , none of that aim has been achieved so far. Remember Wael and his family are bankers/ investors they will want to see a return on their investments So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago. There is more to it than that he gets to own his own football club but a third of English clubs now have foreign owners, getting these clubs into the top two tiers is lucrative for them and it gives them a chance to increase the value of their investment, a new stadium is important to this club but the Al Qadi family arn' t going to invest in a stadium if it isn't right for them . When i first started following Rovers we were a 2nd tier club and flipped between the 2nd and third tier, now we flip between the third and fourth so where is the improvement.
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Post by poorblue on Aug 29, 2022 16:11:38 GMT
When I started watching Rovers we were flipping between the 4th and 5th tier. We are now in the 3rd tier, me thinks that's an improvement.
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Post by baggins on Aug 29, 2022 16:43:07 GMT
So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago. There is more to it than that he gets to own his own football club but a third of English clubs now have foreign owners, getting these clubs into the top two tiers is lucrative for them and it gives them a chance to increase the value of their investment, a new stadium is important to this club but the Al Qadi family arn' t going to invest in a stadium if it isn't right for them . When i first started following Rovers we were a 2nd tier club and flipped between the 2nd and third tier, now we flip between the third and fourth so where is the improvement. Well the next time you bump into Tom, tell him how disapointed you are with the progress Wael has made since taking us over. Let us know what he says.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Aug 29, 2022 17:27:30 GMT
It could be a lot worse, the scran at the mem isnt this bad... I am guessing that's from a private vendor. The scran from the hut by the enclosure is top rate.
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Post by gashead1981 on Aug 29, 2022 18:08:29 GMT
So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago. There is more to it than that he gets to own his own football club but a third of English clubs now have foreign owners, getting these clubs into the top two tiers is lucrative for them and it gives them a chance to increase the value of their investment, a new stadium is important to this club but the Al Qadi family arn' t going to invest in a stadium if it isn't right for them . When i first started following Rovers we were a 2nd tier club and flipped between the 2nd and third tier, now we flip between the third and fourth so where is the improvement. Thing is Werton, we should have had all this infrastructure and vision at the turn of the century, or, the very latest, when we returned to L1 in 2007 to progress to the championship alongside a stadium being built, not just designs and judicial reviews with one. We haven’t progressed since you started watching us as we were very happy with local just about millionaire owners and the big ore of the SC to run the show. You can’t run clubs like that anymore. Those halcyon days of championship football of which you speak were very achievable on a shoe string back then, and even then it wasn’t sustainable as we were relegated after 4 years never to return. A couple of clubs have made the championship on a shoestring but none of them have lasted a course. So before we get there again our house needs to be in order. When you look back at where the club was back in 2016 when the ALQs took over to where it is today, it’s night and day. Same league with a relegation and a promotion in between but we have so many more things to be positive about. We just need the stadium sorted. Already, in short 6/7 years, this ownership has done more for our club than any owner since Dennis Dunford stepped in to save us.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Aug 29, 2022 18:11:00 GMT
i can remember talking to TG a few years back at the time we had 16million in debt and those debts were set to rise, after the passing of Waels Dad he managed to pay the debt off and has been ever since, no different to any other owner and there is no guarantee that this will continue in the future . Thing is most foreign owners of English clubs set up a parent company in a tax haven and use the club to invest their money, in the hope of growing their investment, promotion to the Championship is immediately worth an additional 7- 8 million a year to the club and its owner , that has to be Wael and family the goal, to sustain that the owners need a new stadium or least better facilities than we have at the moment , none of that aim has been achieved so far. Remember Wael and his family are bankers/ investors they will want to see a return on their investments So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago. Always an option. Must be worth 30m now.
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Post by aghast on Aug 29, 2022 20:34:18 GMT
When I started watching Rovers we were flipping between the 4th and 5th tier. We are now in the 3rd tier, me thinks that's an improvement. How many times did we flip into the 5th tier? I must have missed a few seasons.
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Post by aghast on Aug 29, 2022 20:44:24 GMT
So a new training ground isn’t an achievement then? The sports sciences and first team coaching set ups aren’t an achievement either? Did you listen to Byron Anthoney on HAG on Thursday about the work he does with the academy? If you haven’t, then do so. On the viable side of the club, commercially we have been overhauled from 70s dinner dances, santas grottos and matchday lucky dips into better matchday experiences with fanzones, better club shop, bars, together with outside events such as the end of season awards. The money generated that goes back into the club is much more than it’s ever been. There’s loads more. No club is ever plain sailing and success on the pitch is always cyclical unless you are a top 6 prem club and even then it’s hard to maintain your level. I think there is a major difference between image and substance. Paying an Events Agency to sort out the Concorde Player of the Year and a minor celeb to present the awards must have cost the club a small fortune and with no bar takings!. The sponsors effectively paid for the staff and players meals. It may not have looked so nice but if it was held at the Mem, there could be much, much more money generated. Stadiums events are pretty much non existent. Where is any proof the club earns more than ever before? (I would guess bar takings and shirt sales increases will be due to promotion rather than commercial expertise. The bars have been rammed for World Cup tournaments in the past (apart from the last one when the club couldn't be bothered). Will they let another tens of thousands of pounds, slip through their fingers again? How much did the agency/ directors/ actors get paid for the Step Up advert - only available to see if you clicked on a link if you were about to......... buy a ST anyway!!. How many STs were purchased due the advert? None? Still, a few people went to an awards ceremony on a jolly and their CVs look good. Have you seen the actor from The Outlaws at a game other than when he was paid to advertise the shirt sales? Hands up who bought one cos he was paid to advertise one? No one - right thats a good investment!?! We are paying for image. Even though I liked the series, if Christopher Walken was paid to wear a shirt and the club did a promo vid, ( at a cost) it would have absolutely no influence on me buying one. If the 70's dinner dances (I believe run at no cost to the club by the PC) still made a profit. Why get rid? (Other than the politics?). If the SC sold club merchandise and gave larger profits that the club would have made back to the club, why get rid? - Please don't believe the hyperbole of the "SC used the shirt sales profits to cover their losses" - that mistruth is totally disgraceful. Can you imagine Geoff Dunford or Tony the Till ever allowing that! C'mon dont believe the hype. The 50/50 is a success story, why try and reduce the income by upsetting the customers? Yes the sports science and coaching is good, but what a huge cost. The money spent on these are probably more than Graydon had on his entire squad! Is it true that we made a loss last season despite one of our greatest ever seasons? Why didn't the commercial department really cash in? A comic, mugs and posters all easily ordered through the Terrace at a cut. Yes, it is good Wael is prepared to throw millions away each year but it is just not sustainable. Whatever errors the club makes, the thinking seems to be don't worry Wael will bale us out and it worries me because one day he will have had enough. When things go wrong, there is a Tory style shut up and it will all go away mentality. - ticket fiasco, assault allegations, holocaust etc. Surely good business practice would be to be up front straight away. It seems the Fan zone is not a new idea anyway, but congratulations to Tom as it is very good. I don't like the grudges. Why penalise the Young Pirates? Overall Wael 9/10, Tom 7/10, Joey 8/10, the commercial dept and general customer service have a lot to improve on in my book. Team building events like the Player of the Year thing are great for building a strong loyalty and belief, and to spoil the players and staff a bit is money well spent in my opinion. It hauls us up from the image of a small club who stage 70s dinner dances (!) with a finger buffet and peanuts in bowls to something a lot more professional and forward thinking, and a lot more likely to retain and attract a higher quality of player. You have to get this stuff sorted first in order to progress, not stumble around in a 1980s mindset and hope we get a Gerry Francis.
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Post by perryfenwick on Aug 29, 2022 22:44:42 GMT
There is more to it than that he gets to own his own football club but a third of English clubs now have foreign owners, getting these clubs into the top two tiers is lucrative for them and it gives them a chance to increase the value of their investment, a new stadium is important to this club but the Al Qadi family arn' t going to invest in a stadium if it isn't right for them . When i first started following Rovers we were a 2nd tier club and flipped between the 2nd and third tier, now we flip between the third and fourth so where is the improvement. Thing is Werton, we should have had all this infrastructure and vision at the turn of the century, or, the very latest, when we returned to L1 in 2007 to progress to the championship alongside a stadium being built, not just designs and judicial reviews with one. We haven’t progressed since you started watching us as we were very happy with local just about millionaire owners and the big ore of the SC to run the show. You can’t run clubs like that anymore. Those halcyon days of championship football of which you speak were very achievable on a shoe string back then, and even then it wasn’t sustainable as we were relegated after 4 years never to return. A couple of clubs have made the championship on a shoestring but none of them have lasted a course. So before we get there again our house needs to be in order. When you look back at where the club was back in 2016 when the ALQs took over to where it is today, it’s night and day. Same league with a relegation and a promotion in between but we have so many more things to be positive about. We just need the stadium sorted. Already, in short 6/7 years, this ownership has done more for our club than any owner since Dennis Dunford stepped in to save us. You are obviously correct about the previous ownership and their managed decline of the club, and, previous to them, basically being a club in the hands of one family, a chicken in a basket organisation, fuelled by community. We stood still while the game moved forward. The Dunfords were great while football remained in the 20th century but all since then has been a mess. However I must take issue with your assessment of the current owner and his employees. Let's judge him on a few factors. On the pitch: Up to Coughlan going I almost have no faults. DC may feel like promises were made and not kept, it happens, and obviously pre Covid, W was not in full charge. Hands were tied behind his back. From there, good lord. By all means bring in a box fresh coach straight out of his badges, LinkedIn profile in hand, with his grand ideas of playing vertical tiki taka with a false nine, if you want. But don't do it when you're fourth in the league and playing a different style altogether. We threw the second half of that season. I'd say we somehow backed him too much after that AND sacked him too early. Tisdale was a joke, relegation was a failure, and whatever the current manager does he will always drag our name through the mud cos that's who he is. But that doesn't matter because it's Waels ball and he chooses who gets to play with it. Infrastructure. Anyone buying the club in 2016 could see we needed a training ground. Well done for making it happen but let's save the back slapping. If you buy a business that is in dire need of investment in certain areas then you're protecting your interest in making that investment. The stadium is the killer and we are were we were in 2016, 2011, 2016, and 2001. Nowhere. Everything else. We're essentially a PR club. Lots of people employed to say how great everything is, lots of plastic trophies handed out from the Community Trust and other 'partners', lots of tweets about how forward thinking we all are, a good few fans clearly given a few crumbs off the table to trumpet the 'successes' (not to mention a few others cast asunder for the crime of not toeing party lines) but we can't get a few water bottles out in a heatwave and can't organise a stadium so we don't get capacity reduced by the Plod. Don't get me wrong, he's better than Higgs. What a low bar that is. And it's great that the club has survived Covid - we can thank him for that while also realising that he had more to lose if he didn't keep it going. What is the investment so far, £30m is it? Let's knock off £7-8m to pay Nicholas back, £2-3m maybe for the Quarters. What's the rest got us? Finishing in the same league position we did 5 minutes after he came in the door. Some paint in the bars and a beer tent outside. I can't imagine he's happy with that, why should we be?
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Post by The Equaliser on Aug 30, 2022 6:45:31 GMT
⬆️ Very well written PerryFenwick, but as per a few on here lately you have written it with bitterness which sadly you can’t hide and renders your long post invalid to many who read it.
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Post by fintanstack on Aug 30, 2022 6:50:29 GMT
So Waels using us as an offshore Tax write off and he's hoping we get into the Championship to get a 7mil return on his investement. Other than that, he's done no more than any previous owner. That what you saying? If I were him I'd have sold the Mem for housing years ago. Always an option. Must be worth 30m now. Not an option without an alternative new stadium being built.
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Post by eric on Aug 30, 2022 7:34:06 GMT
Always an option. Must be worth 30m now. Not an option without an alternative new stadium being built. Haven’t you seen the huge housing estate that’s built on the land where The Quarters training ground used to be? It’s all part of WAQ’s master plan of building on all real estate owned by the club - diggers are moving into the Mem site shortly to start work on the houses with the first team relocating to Muller Road playing fields!
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