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Post by mftc on Sept 19, 2022 12:29:18 GMT
Why do we not rate our own local players?
Alfie has played over 100 first team games, under several managers and like Ollie Clarke gets a lot of unfair criticism (in my opinion).
Both have had terrible injuries that would have caused them to retire in the 70s and 80s - think Wayne Jones, Alan Evans, Lee Portch and Wayne Noble but they have both several operations and fought hard to get fit and force their way back into the side.
I think Whelan gave away possession more times on Saturday than in the whole of his Rovers career. Add to that the fact that Hoole and Gordon looked totally lost as he took up strange positions and they didn't know if they were meant to stay with their own men, or cover the gaps that Whelan created.
I know Whelan has been outstanding for us, but if Alfie had played equally as badly, the forum would have been on meltdown.
It seems that it is incredibly hard for local youngsters to make it. Since the (first) John Ward days we cannot have had more than 3 or 4 local lads come through to play 100 games. (ie not Ellis or Locks). Yet in that time at least 2 of our released youngsters have played over 100 premier games (Mings and Barnes).
Maybe just my age but football (and footballers) seemed happier in the days of Stewie, Archie (Lee), Gravy and Maddison.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Sept 19, 2022 12:43:44 GMT
I think you have good points and we should respect Kilgour, Clarke, Harrison more for being the ones to come through the youth system. Even Lockyer was severely underrated by a significant proportion of the fan base right up to the end of his Rovers career. Whelan gets some sympathy I think for being understandably all at sea and not really having the right attributes to play centre back, particularly when he was played alongside other players who weren’t suited to the roles given. He’s a top pro and an example to all really. Barton deserves the criticism for Saturday and I feel sorry for Kilgour for apparently being overlooked when he was the only bona fide fit centre back. Seems a crazy selection decision unless there’s a reason that we don’t know about re fitness etc.
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Post by Quarters on Sept 19, 2022 12:50:42 GMT
Hoole seems to have been added to the list as well as a target this season.
Must be some rational behind the fact that they are/have been targeted, not that I can see it.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Sept 19, 2022 12:55:35 GMT
Hoole seems to have been added to the list as well as a target this season. Must be some rational behind the fact that they are/have been targeted, not that I can see it. Hoole ideally would be just concentrating on making that right back berth his own but every game he’s in a different position and in a different formation. He’s a good athlete and a good footballer. I’m sure he has plenty to learn but I think he’s the kind of player that will reward you if you give him patience. I agree that having half the Mem on his back if he makes a mistake is not helpful but that’s modern football I think. We hear “pundits” who were nothing special when they played analysing everything until the cows come home looking for fault in order to make themselves sound better and it rubs off on the crowd. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 19, 2022 12:57:58 GMT
Hoole seems to have been added to the list as well as a target this season. Must be some rational behind the fact that they are/have been targeted, not that I can see it. Only targeted by SteveK on Gaschat, who seems to delight in criticising home grown players? Personally I feel sorry for Hoole as he looked a good full back last season but now totally out of his depth as a CB this season. |
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Post by yattongas on Sept 19, 2022 13:28:23 GMT
For me it has absolutely nothing to do with it , if they’re homegrown or from Timbuktu. I personally don’t rate Kilgour that highly and think he’s a weak link ( although I would of played him sat ). The midfield players we have now are better imo than Ollie ( who I liked as I knew his dad ) .
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Post by yattongas on Sept 19, 2022 13:28:35 GMT
Oops 😬
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Post by dudelebowski on Sept 19, 2022 13:53:59 GMT
For me it has absolutely nothing to do with it , if they’re homegrown or from Timbuktu. I personally don’t rate Kilgour that highly and think he’s a weak link ( although I would of played him sat ). The midfield players we have now are better imo than Ollie ( who I liked as I knew his dad ) . Exactly that, it’s no campaign against Academy players just that it’s been proven over the last 2 seasons (when fit) he’s not good enough in a footballing side. Golden if we’re a kick and rush outfit (Coughlan season) but not one that wants to play football on the deck or play out from the back. For me it’s actually the opposite, the fact he’s a local lad keeps the blinkers on some people & protects him from whatever the likes of Harries & Baldwin used to get. When really he’s bang on par with the pair of them. When the defence are 100% back fit and firing he’ll be lucky to get on the bench. Harsh, but just fact. |
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Post by stapletongas on Sept 19, 2022 13:57:21 GMT
My take. Alfie is perfectly capable and has previously demonstrated it before at this level.
He has had a series of injuries and setbacks throughout rehab. Recovering to full fitness is one thing but doing that and finding true form is another.
Finally doing all that and finding that form when surrounded by players who are also not in form is a big ask.
Stop slaughtering our boys and do nothing other than encouraging them. If you want individuals and team collectively to hit form, you have no choice.
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Post by yattongas on Sept 19, 2022 14:11:04 GMT
My take. Alfie is perfectly capable and has previously demonstrated it before at this level. He has had a series of injuries and setbacks throughout rehab. Recovering to full fitness is one thing but doing that and finding true form is another. Finally doing all that and finding that form when surrounded by players who are also not in form is a big ask. Stop slaughtering our boys and do nothing other than encouraging them. If you want individuals and team collectively to hit form, you have no choice. We’re not ‘slaughtering him’ , we’re just giving our opinion that he’s not good enough. You think he is , which is also fine . 🙄 opinions are allowed on here I think 🤔? |
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Sept 19, 2022 14:16:11 GMT
Regarding Kilgour I put this on a separate thread but think it probably sits better here.
The way JB wants his defenders to play with a high line and passing from the back doesn't suit him. However put him in a Coughlan type team who defend deep and simply ask their defenders to defend and he's a more than capable league 1 player. If Coughlin was the manager Alfie would be first choice under Barton he's unlikely to play, it's not so much ability more style of play
As for Hoole maybe we should remember he's only had a year of 1st team football and is still learning. This year he's played in a different back 3/4 pretty much every game whilst at the same time being moved to a new position, I'd suggest that would be hard enough for anyone. Given time I think he'll turn out to be a player we may have trouble keeping, fortunately I think JB rates him more highly than some on here seem to
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Post by stapletongas on Sept 19, 2022 14:28:13 GMT
My take. Alfie is perfectly capable and has previously demonstrated it before at this level. He has had a series of injuries and setbacks throughout rehab. Recovering to full fitness is one thing but doing that and finding true form is another. Finally doing all that and finding that form when surrounded by players who are also not in form is a big ask. Stop slaughtering our boys and do nothing other than encouraging them. If you want individuals and team collectively to hit form, you have no choice. We’re not ‘slaughtering him’ , we’re just giving our opinion that he’s not good enough. You think he is , which is also fine . 🙄 opinions are allowed on here I think 🤔? They are and I gave mine |
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Post by socrates on Sept 19, 2022 14:33:20 GMT
Why do we not rate our own local players? Alfie has played over 100 first team games, under several managers and like Ollie Clarke gets a lot of unfair criticism (in my opinion). Both have had terrible injuries that would have caused them to retire in the 70s and 80s - think Wayne Jones, Alan Evans, Lee Portch and Wayne Noble but they have both several operations and fought hard to get fit and force their way back into the side. I think Whelan gave away possession more times on Saturday than in the whole of his Rovers career. Add to that the fact that Hoole and Gordon looked totally lost as he took up strange positions and they didn't know if they were meant to stay with their own men, or cover the gaps that Whelan created. I know Whelan has been outstanding for us, but if Alfie had played equally as badly, the forum would have been on meltdown. It seems that it is incredibly hard for local youngsters to make it. Since the (first) John Ward days we cannot have had more than 3 or 4 local lads come through to play 100 games. (ie not Ellis or Locks). Yet in that time at least 2 of our released youngsters have played over 100 premier games (Mings and Barnes). Maybe just my age but football (and footballers) seemed happier in the days of Stewie, Archie (Lee), Gravy and Maddison. Some say that local players get special treatment for the good and others say for the bad. It makes no difference to me personally. Although obviously it’s great to see a local player do well for the club like Olly or Chris Lines. I thought Alfie was going to become a Rovers legend when he was regularly one of our top performers as we launched a very surprising fight against relegation followed by a push for promotion to the championship a couple of years ago. Two years , many changes of management and some bad injuries later he hasn’t progressed but that’s hardly surprising although whether he was born in Bristol or not has nothing to do with that. |
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Post by Claremont Gas on Sept 19, 2022 15:10:31 GMT
Luca is a very promising right back … pacy, decent in the tackle and growing into First team football … UNTIL because of poor Recruitment he is thrown into a CB role.
As soon as he is back into a familiar role I think we will see him shine - Fully expect him to be sold for a sizeable fee in a few years time.
As for Alfie - Nice guy who is possibly better suited to L2 football.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 19, 2022 15:19:48 GMT
Luca is a very promising right back … pacy, decent in the tackle and growing into First team football … UNTIL because of poor Recruitment he is thrown into a CB role. As soon as he is back into a familiar role I think we will see him shine - Fully expect him to be sold for a sizeable fee in a few years time. As for Alfie - Nice guy who is possibly better suited to L2 football. I agree with this. Hoole is a good player but he's a young player still learning his trade. I don't know why we have messed about with putting him at CB this season. Feels like we have over complicated something quite simple. As for Kilgour, he doesn't suit JB's style of play. He is an old fashioned CB suited to a 4-4-2 type system. We haven't got a real leader at the back at the minute either like when he was alongside Tony Craig. IF Gibson keeps fit I think he will be our best CB. |
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Post by tbonegas on Sept 19, 2022 15:32:38 GMT
Why do we not rate our own local players? Alfie has played over 100 first team games, under several managers and like Ollie Clarke gets a lot of unfair criticism (in my opinion). Both have had terrible injuries that would have caused them to retire in the 70s and 80s - think Wayne Jones, Alan Evans, Lee Portch and Wayne Noble but they have both several operations and fought hard to get fit and force their way back into the side. I think Whelan gave away possession more times on Saturday than in the whole of his Rovers career. Add to that the fact that Hoole and Gordon looked totally lost as he took up strange positions and they didn't know if they were meant to stay with their own men, or cover the gaps that Whelan created. I know Whelan has been outstanding for us, but if Alfie had played equally as badly, the forum would have been on meltdown. It seems that it is incredibly hard for local youngsters to make it. Since the (first) John Ward days we cannot have had more than 3 or 4 local lads come through to play 100 games. (ie not Ellis or Locks). Yet in that time at least 2 of our released youngsters have played over 100 premier games (Mings and Barnes). Maybe just my age but football (and footballers) seemed happier in the days of Stewie, Archie (Lee), Gravy and Maddison. Alan Evans, did you mean Andrew Evans? |
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Post by gulfofaden on Sept 19, 2022 16:03:41 GMT
Aaron Collins is one of our own really. He’s the product of Rovers youth. He was released and told he won’t make pro.
LOL. True story.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 19, 2022 16:36:31 GMT
Aaron Collins is one of our own really. He’s the product of Rovers youth. He was released and told he won’t make pro. LOL. True story. Some players need that rejection. |
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Post by bidefordgas on Sept 19, 2022 17:22:01 GMT
Why do we not rate our own local players? Alfie has played over 100 first team games, under several managers and like Ollie Clarke gets a lot of unfair criticism (in my opinion). Both have had terrible injuries that would have caused them to retire in the 70s and 80s - think Wayne Jones, Alan Evans, Lee Portch and Wayne Noble but they have both several operations and fought hard to get fit and force their way back into the side. I think Whelan gave away possession more times on Saturday than in the whole of his Rovers career. Add to that the fact that Hoole and Gordon looked totally lost as he took up strange positions and they didn't know if they were meant to stay with their own men, or cover the gaps that Whelan created. I know Whelan has been outstanding for us, but if Alfie had played equally as badly, the forum would have been on meltdown. It seems that it is incredibly hard for local youngsters to make it. Since the (first) John Ward days we cannot have had more than 3 or 4 local lads come through to play 100 games. (ie not Ellis or Locks). Yet in that time at least 2 of our released youngsters have played over 100 premier games (Mings and Barnes). Maybe just my age but football (and footballers) seemed happier in the days of Stewie, Archie (Lee), Gravy and Maddison. At what age were Mings and Barnes with us? |
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 19, 2022 18:15:52 GMT
When we were at twerton josh low used to get all sorts of abuse. Liked him as a player but never given a chance by some and was happy for him he made a career away from rovers
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