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Post by Somersetgas on Feb 2, 2023 20:38:50 GMT
Personally wouldn’t want to pay any extra, costs are going up for everything, to suggest it’s one less Thatchers for people is a bit offside to me. It is also not like the facilities are being improved. I’ll still get soaked on the East Terrace several games next season. I think you'd end up with smaller crowds, a lot of people already have stretched their finances as far as possible. With interest rates rising again today, I can't see an increase in ticket prices going down very well. Especially with interest rates continually rising, the effect that will have as mortgage renewal comes around will be bigger than a £5:00 rise. If you’re talking about paying £27 plus to stand as a pay on the day fan that’s three hours people on lower wages would have to work to attend, that’s before taking children, buying food and travel expenses.
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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 20:40:27 GMT
With today's interest rate rise, how much do you think Wael pays out on cost of capital? I often agree with what you have to say but I am unsure of the point you are trying to make here. I have two opposing opinions on this subject but the prevailing one currently is Wael should stop bank rolling us and we become a self sustainable club. There is a downside. Given our facilities we will probably be little better than a non league club. The fans we do have will disappear and we will be gone in ten years. The other view is that we pay a little more and accept and express how grateful we are that someone is willing to subsidise our hobby. No Wael, no club. My point, a simple one, is that fans need to face up to reality. I agree with both the scenarios you paint. There is a third. Wael stops funding the club, realises his capital value held within the site of the current stadium and leaves us. The club is then dead in the water. As Trevorgas pointed out he cannot carry on Ad Infinitum, and we have no, based upon current evidence, qualified management to grow (trade) us out of this hole.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 20:41:05 GMT
So you want him to stump up the cash for capital improvements whilst funding crippling annual losses whilst holding down prices? Right, got you. Or perhaps pick a squad to a suitable budget to cut those losses, explore other revenue streams, not hike the cost even further and alienate fans who are struggling. The ground is a disgrace and a standing joke, Anyone that thinks promotion with our current ground set up is in la la land. Those losses would only increase going up. Luton seem to be surviving and Wycombe made a fist of staying up whilst making records profits neither club's seem to have grounds really any better than the Mem, perhaps the extra money from Sky etc could finance some much needed ground improvements. www.thefootballboardroom.com/2021/12/13/wycombe-finances-2021-record-profits/
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Post by fintanstack on Feb 2, 2023 20:42:33 GMT
I often agree with what you have to say but I am unsure of the point you are trying to make here. I have two opposing opinions on this subject but the prevailing one currently is Wael should stop bank rolling us and we become a self sustainable club. There is a downside. Given our facilities we will probably be little better than a non league club. The fans we do have will disappear and we will be gone in ten years. The other view is that we pay a little more and accept and express how grateful we are that someone is willing to subsidise our hobby. No Wael, no club. My point, a simple one, is that fans need to face up to reality. I agree with both the scenarios you paint. There is a third. Wael stops funding the club, realises his capital value held within the site of the current stadium and leaves us. The club is then dead in the water. As Trevorgas pointed out he cannot carry on Ad Infinitum, and we have no, based upon current evidence, qualified management to grow (trade) us out of this hole. That is why I am concerned with our reliance on the loan market. Two of the three scenarios basically end with, well, the end.
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Post by Somersetgas on Feb 2, 2023 20:44:19 GMT
Or perhaps pick a squad to a suitable budget to cut those losses, explore other revenue streams, not hike the cost even further and alienate fans who are struggling. The ground is a disgrace and a standing joke, Anyone that thinks promotion with our current ground set up is in la la land. Those losses would only increase going up. Luton seem to be surviving and Wycombe made a fist of staying up whilst making records profits neither club's seem to have grounds really any better than the Mem, perhaps the extra money from Sky etc could finance some much needed ground improvements. www.thefootballboardroom.com/2021/12/13/wycombe-finances-2021-record-profits/I’d argue Wycombe ground is better than ours, but just around us in the league. Luton not so and on a par with ours for worst eyesore of a ground in the country. On the pitch they have got things going on the right direction.
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Post by oldie on Feb 2, 2023 20:45:10 GMT
My point, a simple one, is that fans need to face up to reality. I agree with both the scenarios you paint. There is a third. Wael stops funding the club, realises his capital value held within the site of the current stadium and leaves us. The club is then dead in the water. As Trevorgas pointed out he cannot carry on Ad Infinitum, and we have no, based upon current evidence, qualified management to grow (trade) us out of this hole. That is why I am concerned with our reliance on the loan market. Two of the three scenarios basically end with, well, the end. Exactly. Which very nicely triangulates back to our choice of manager and his recruitment method.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Feb 2, 2023 20:57:05 GMT
Give it a rest - that isn't what this thread is about. Really? I thought it was about funding the club? From reading the OP, the question was how much extra would supporters be prepared to pay for their tickets in order to increase income for the club.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 2, 2023 21:25:34 GMT
Can we ground share at the cricket ? Their current ground or their new one? If you know, you know
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 22:11:55 GMT
I often agree with what you have to say but I am unsure of the point you are trying to make here. I have two opposing opinions on this subject but the prevailing one currently is Wael should stop bank rolling us and we become a self sustainable club. There is a downside. Given our facilities we will probably be little better than a non league club. The fans we do have will disappear and we will be gone in ten years. The other view is that we pay a little more and accept and express how grateful we are that someone is willing to subsidise our hobby. No Wael, no club. My point, a simple one, is that fans need to face up to reality. I agree with both the scenarios you paint. There is a third. Wael stops funding the club, realises his capital value held within the site of the current stadium and leaves us. The club is then dead in the water. As Trevorgas pointed out he cannot carry on Ad Infinitum, and we have no, based upon current evidence, qualified management to grow (trade) us out of this hole. Unless posters like you upset him with your continued sniping why would Wael suddenly decided to leave us in the lurch by selling the Mem and leaving us homeless, it's just an attempt at scaremongering nobody's really going to fall for, unless Wael ever says he's moving it's pointless worry about the future when we have zero control over what Wael might or might not do.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 2, 2023 22:15:48 GMT
That is why I am concerned with our reliance on the loan market. Two of the three scenarios basically end with, well, the end. Exactly. Which very nicely triangulates back to our choice of manager and his recruitment method. JB's recruitment policy has produced our best saleable asset in the club's history. FACT
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Post by aghast on Feb 2, 2023 22:18:21 GMT
Personally wouldn’t want to pay any extra, costs are going up for everything, to suggest it’s one less Thatchers for people is a bit offside to me. It is also not like the facilities are being improved. I’ll still get soaked on the East Terrace several games next season. So you want Wael to pay for your entertainment? Well you can't realistically expect the fans of any L1/L2 club to fund the losses. They turn up, endure crap facilities (often) and do their bit. Owners are the gatekeepers who are there to sustain the clubs and prevent disaster. That's why they are, and want to be, owners. If we're losing £3m per annum, that's a huge amount extra for 9,000 fans to make up over 23 games. In fact it's £14.50 extra per game. Except it's not, because crowds would tumble at £37 per ticket, so it would have to be more, until the elasticity of demand snaps and it doesn't work at all. The fans are already paying a hefty fee for their entertainment. They can't be expected to fund the losses. It's just not realistic. This thread was of course about raising cash for transfers, not sustaining the whole club, but the general point is the same. And if you ask why Wael would stay if the fans won't pay enough to make the club break even, I would refer you to the other 47 clubs and ask them the same question.
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 2, 2023 22:45:03 GMT
It's too expensive as it is and lower league football clubs should be ever thankful that the fans turn up in the numbers they do. I'm sure it's a struggle for many. A new or redeveloped stadium is the only answer, not milking the faithful fans for ever more money. And if the money or will to get a new stadium isn't there, then we either need to accept that we stagnate, or accept that the owners aren't the moneybags we once hoped they were and will at least keep us afloat. Do you really think that? When comparing to other Entertainment Industry pricing, its pretty reasonable. Where else can you get 90 mins live 'entertainment' for £20? Cricket? It will cost an adult £20.00 to watch a days cricket in Taunton starting at 11.00 and getting 6 hours of top class English cricket. And in fairly comfortable conditions with proper facilities. My season ticket for Somerset CCC cost me £189.00 for that I get 28 days of cricket. You can do the maths but it makes it very good value. And of course the club still makes an annual profit as it has for the past 5/6 years. Btw it’s hard to compare football and cricket properly and I wouldn’t expect cricket with 6 hours every day to be the same £ per hour as football, so I’m doing this a bit tongue in cheek. I think lower league football is very expensive but I understand why. The model of lower league football is completely broken and has been since the advent of the PL. Nothing lower league clubs can do but do their best and pray for a millionaire prepared to spend big for little return. I do feel threads like this are just another circular argument where you either feel the most important thing is a new ground or you just want to enjoy the football and us doing very well. Whatever, without a new ground we will never generate enough income to make us a serious challenger for the Championship with the ability to stay there. Sad but I think true. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 2, 2023 22:45:59 GMT
Can we ground share at the cricket ? Like they do in many parts of Australia. UTG!
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Post by Somersetgas on Feb 2, 2023 22:52:56 GMT
So you want Wael to pay for your entertainment? Well you can't realistically expect the fans of any L1/L2 club to fund the losses. They turn up, endure crap facilities (often) and do their bit. Owners are the gatekeepers who are there to sustain the clubs and prevent disaster. That's why they are, and want to be, owners. If we're losing £3m per annum, that's a huge amount extra for 9,000 fans to make up over 23 games. In fact it's £14.50 extra per game. Except it's not, because crowds would tumble at £37 per ticket, so it would have to be more, until the elasticity of demand snaps and it doesn't work at all. The fans are already paying a hefty fee for their entertainment. They can't be expected to fund the losses. It's just not realistic. This thread was of course about raising cash for transfers, not sustaining the whole club, but the general point is the same. And if you ask why Wael would stay if the fans won't pay enough to make the club break even, I would refer you to the other 47 clubs and ask them the same question. Thanks for having the patience to do the maths that I couldn’t, I’ll stop feeding myself for next seasons ticket price of £37 🤣
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Post by Somersetgas on Feb 2, 2023 22:56:36 GMT
Do you really think that? When comparing to other Entertainment Industry pricing, its pretty reasonable. Where else can you get 90 mins live 'entertainment' for £20? Cricket? It will cost an adult £20.00 to watch a days cricket in Taunton starting at 11.00 and getting 6 hours of top class English cricket. And in fairly comfortable conditions with proper facilities. My season ticket for Somerset CCC cost me £189.00 for that I get 28 days of cricket. You can do the maths but it makes it very good value. And of course the club still makes an annual profit as it has for the past 5/6 years. Btw it’s hard to compare football and cricket properly and I wouldn’t expect cricket with 6 hours every day to be the same £ per hour as football, so I’m doing this a bit tongue in cheek. I think lower league football is very expensive but I understand why. The model of lower league football is completely broken and has been since the advent of the PL. Nothing lower league clubs can do but do their best and pray for a millionaire prepared to spend big for little return. I do feel threads like this are just another circular argument where you either feel the most important thing is a new ground or you just want to enjoy the football and us doing very well. Whatever, without a new ground we will never generate enough income to make us a serious challenger for the Championship with the ability to stay there. Sad but I think true. UTG! Firmly nail on the head with this comment.
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Post by eastgas on Feb 2, 2023 23:51:36 GMT
There are some that could afford an increase in ticket prices but I’m sure there would be many more that couldn’t. You would lose money increasing ticket prices due to reduced gates. I go to pretty much every home game and take my 3 kids with me. How much would I be expected to pay to continue doing this? It currently costs me £62 plus travel, food, drinks etc. We love the club and would continue to go but not everyone would be able to.
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Post by gasify on Feb 2, 2023 23:57:15 GMT
Exactly. Which very nicely triangulates back to our choice of manager and his recruitment method. JB's recruitment policy has produced our best saleable asset in the club's history. FACT Worth more than our Ricky?
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Post by gasify on Feb 3, 2023 0:07:43 GMT
So you want Wael to pay for your entertainment? Well you can't realistically expect the fans of any L1/L2 club to fund the losses. They turn up, endure crap facilities (often) and do their bit. Owners are the gatekeepers who are there to sustain the clubs and prevent disaster. That's why they are, and want to be, owners. If we're losing £3m per annum, that's a huge amount extra for 9,000 fans to make up over 23 games. In fact it's £14.50 extra per game. Except it's not, because crowds would tumble at £37 per ticket, so it would have to be more, until the elasticity of demand snaps and it doesn't work at all. The fans are already paying a hefty fee for their entertainment. They can't be expected to fund the losses. It's just not realistic. This thread was of course about raising cash for transfers, not sustaining the whole club, but the general point is the same. And if you ask why Wael would stay if the fans won't pay enough to make the club break even, I would refer you to the other 47 clubs and ask them the same question. I'd say that football is pretty price inelastic. It's too emotional to be a rational decision. Do you think that an Arsenal fan paying £90 for a ticket gets 4.5 times more enjoyment out of the game than someone on the Thatchers?
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Post by gasify on Feb 3, 2023 0:11:07 GMT
I agree. However, there are plenty out there where a £5 increase is only one less pint of Thatchers. So you’re idea is not to charge extra for everyone? The question was how much extra would you pay for a promotion push. I didn't ask how much should ticket prices increase by.
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Post by gasify on Feb 3, 2023 0:51:55 GMT
Do you really think that? When comparing to other Entertainment Industry pricing, its pretty reasonable. Where else can you get 90 mins live 'entertainment' for £20? I do. Football ticket prices have increased by about 350% more than the rate of inflation over the past 40 years , are the most expensive in Europe, and in the lower leagues, English prices are totally sky high. And don't get me started on replica kit prices. Ludicrous. It's not like other forms of entertainment. If you regularly went to see Adele and she didn't turn up half the time, sang badly at other times and often let you down, you might not pay to see her again. But it's a different game, so to speak, with football. I call BS on this comment. In 95 a popular terrace ticket was £6. An equivalent ticket now is £22 a 266% increase. Using the retail price index, since 1992 it has risen by about 60 basis points. That £6 should now cost £9.60 (60 basis points higher), so the £22 is 130% increase over inflation. However, that is using the RPI. For a bit of context: Looking at the Land Registry, you could buy a property on Muller road for around £45k. Using 689 Muller road as an example. It was last sold in 2022 for £289k an increase of over 500%.
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