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Post by lastminutewinner on Feb 14, 2023 16:54:14 GMT
I Didnt say he was doing anything to bring the club in to disrepute or anything of the sort. All I said was I disagreed with the notion that when Barton tweets something it has no effect or reflection on his employer because it patently does. I do think Rovers get a poor reputation because officials have bias against Barton because of his history. I also think tweeting and moaning in interviews makes it worse. This is irrespective of whether or not Barton is actually right. Is tweeting about it any worse than Klopp or any other prem manager going on match of the day and moaning about a referee’s performance? Exactly. Refs, although they probably dislike Barton 'should' have the self respect to be impartial at all times. I cant imagine many of them liked Alex Ferguson either but it did him no harm
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 14, 2023 17:22:09 GMT
I Didnt say he was doing anything to bring the club in to disrepute or anything of the sort. All I said was I disagreed with the notion that when Barton tweets something it has no effect or reflection on his employer because it patently does. I do think Rovers get a poor reputation because officials have bias against Barton because of his history. I also think tweeting and moaning in interviews makes it worse. This is irrespective of whether or not Barton is actually right. Is tweeting about it any worse than Klopp or any other prem manager going on match of the day and moaning about a referee’s performance? No, of course not. I know I don't like the bloke, but that doesn't mean I can't be objective. I actually agree that it's very likely we are getting more than our fair share of bad decisions just because of who our manager is.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Feb 14, 2023 17:29:48 GMT
Is tweeting about it any worse than Klopp or any other prem manager going on match of the day and moaning about a referee’s performance? No, of course not. I know I don't like the bloke, but that doesn't mean I can't be objective. I actually agree that it's very likely we are getting more than our fair share of bad decisions just because of who our manager is. I don’t think it’s anything to do with who our manager is . It’s just bad decisions, all sides get them but you notice more when your side loses and even more so when it’s a run of defeats. As the old adage goes , these thing’s normally equal out over a season .
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 14, 2023 17:31:56 GMT
No, of course not. I know I don't like the bloke, but that doesn't mean I can't be objective. I actually agree that it's very likely we are getting more than our fair share of bad decisions just because of who our manager is. I don’t think it’s anything to do with who our manager is . It’s just bad decisions, all sides get them but you notice more when your side loses and even more so when it’s a run of defeats. As the old adage goes , these thing’s normally equal out over a season . I think that's normally true and you may be right in our case too. I just don't recall reading on here that we have had much go our way. Maybe that's just the nature of partisan reporting on here.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Feb 14, 2023 17:38:44 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2023 17:58:22 GMT
Thing is, an addict will not recognise their own problem and getting help is extremely difficult for your average person. You only get help if you manage to recognise the problem and reach out, maybe he would not have been banned had he have taken this course of action, i agree by the way In my experience, addicts don’t respond to help, they respond to consequences. I got depressed /addicted about 8 years ago and it was the same with that, sympathy and understanding just helped me continue on the path and consequences (serious threat of them) made me change. People respond differently, I’m a big fan of tough love. It may not be for everyone but painful confrontation worked a lot better than someone sympathising as you wallow in addiction and self destructive behaviour. It’s extremely painful and brutal at first. Just my tuppanceworth. Carry on all. I agree and just wish that i had been listened to. I had my 2 eldest brothers die, as a consequence of prolonged abuse of 2 of the worst. One was clean for 4 years at time of death but his use had ruined his vital organs. They, neither of them, would listen to sense nor seek out help. Personally, i wanted to take them, by force and lock them in a secure place, wish my parents would have allowed for that. Very brave of you to post that, chapeau and well done
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Feb 14, 2023 18:12:38 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty I think with less people taking up refereeing, when the refs at the top retire, some of them are now replaced with referees who wouldn't normally get the Prem gig. This moves everybody up the chain, and filters down through the leagues, so Leagues One and Two are also getting lower quality referees than a few years ago. Having said that, with the abuse and threats that referees starting out get, I'm amazed that anybody sticks with it.
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2023 18:14:04 GMT
To be fair, that's true. But in reality nobody else is interested in yours or my views on Bristol Rovers FC are they. Nick Higgs was! He shutdown the previous form of this forum due to views expressed by certain members about certain things going on at the club by various players in our relegation to non league season. Norburn if i remember correctly. Awful thing to do, especially given the FFSC was then completely reliant upon that place
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Post by Kingswood Polak on Feb 14, 2023 18:21:25 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty Given the referees are subject to people watching their games, I’d say that they would want to be the best they can but then, maybe some are genuinely fed up of being made the villain
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Post by oldie on Feb 14, 2023 18:30:39 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty I think with less people taking up refereeing, when the refs at the top retire, some of them are now replaced with referees who wouldn't normally get the Prem gig. This moves everybody up the chain, and filters down through the leagues, so Leagues One and Two are also getting lower quality referees than a few years ago. Having said that, with the abuse and threats that referees starting out get, I'm amazed that anybody sticks with it. Well, precisely. So it doesn't help if professional managers are on social media slagging them off...does it?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 14, 2023 18:37:24 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty I think with less people taking up refereeing, when the refs at the top retire, some of them are now replaced with referees who wouldn't normally get the Prem gig. This moves everybody up the chain, and filters down through the leagues, so Leagues One and Two are also getting lower quality referees than a few years ago. Having said that, with the abuse and threats that referees starting out get, I'm amazed that anybody sticks with it. I've reffed kids football a couple of times and regularly run the line and it's a lot harder than the armchair fans think. Add into that the culture of degrading, abusing, harassing and deliberate cheating that goes on in every game and I'm amazed anyone does it. By and large I think most refs are not really that bad and I can guarantee that they make less mistakes per game than literally every player and manager.
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Post by lastminutewinner on Feb 14, 2023 18:37:45 GMT
I have to admit the last 2 seasons I have seen more dubious decisions go against us than any other in my lifetime supporting Rovers. Maybe thats true or maybe its Joey highlighting every one of them, I dont know. Certainly more realistic to think refs are out to get Bartons side than the ongoing conspiracy theory for the teds not being awarded a penalty Given the referees are subject to people watching their games, I’d say that they would want to be the best they can but then, maybe some are genuinely fed up of being made the villain Yes they are 'assessed' and given marks by the two managers but I cant say ive seen many refs disappear due to bad performances. Refs know they are safe as they arent getting the same amount of refs coming through to take their place. My neighbour is a (recent) ex pro and told me that he keeps in touch with 2 refs who have no ambition to referee at the top level - so you have refs knowing they dont get any comebacks and aren't really looking to improve themselves. No wonder they are getting worse
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 14, 2023 18:40:09 GMT
Given the referees are subject to people watching their games, I’d say that they would want to be the best they can but then, maybe some are genuinely fed up of being made the villain Yes they are 'assessed' and given marks by the two managers but I cant say ive seen many refs disappear due to bad performances. Refs know they are safe as they arent getting the same amount of refs coming through to take their place. My neighbour is a (recent) ex pro and told me that he keeps in touch with 2 refs who have no ambition to referee at the top level - so you have refs knowing they dont get any comebacks and aren't really looking to improve themselves. No wonder they are getting worse Are they getting worse or is it just because there are 30 cameras at every game and players and managers are so desperate to pass any blame on where possible?
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Post by gulfofaden on Feb 14, 2023 19:16:44 GMT
In my experience, addicts don’t respond to help, they respond to consequences. I got depressed /addicted about 8 years ago and it was the same with that, sympathy and understanding just helped me continue on the path and consequences (serious threat of them) made me change. People respond differently, I’m a big fan of tough love. It may not be for everyone but painful confrontation worked a lot better than someone sympathising as you wallow in addiction and self destructive behaviour. It’s extremely painful and brutal at first. Just my tuppanceworth. Carry on all. Blimey We have a time traveller from the 19th century amongst us 😂😂😂 Or, you have no backbone and you mischaracterise others who have as their own poor character, to excuse your own?
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Feb 14, 2023 19:27:19 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 14, 2023 19:27:19 GMT
Blimey We have a time traveller from the 19th century amongst us 😂😂😂 Or, you have no backbone and you mischaracterise others who have as their own poor character, to excuse your own? No idea. Are you suggesting I don't have the backbone to to openly discuss my views? Genuinely do not fully understand your point.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Feb 14, 2023 19:33:21 GMT
I think with less people taking up refereeing, when the refs at the top retire, some of them are now replaced with referees who wouldn't normally get the Prem gig. This moves everybody up the chain, and filters down through the leagues, so Leagues One and Two are also getting lower quality referees than a few years ago. Having said that, with the abuse and threats that referees starting out get, I'm amazed that anybody sticks with it. Well, precisely. So it doesn't help if professional managers are on social media slagging them off...does it? No, it doesn't help if they are slagged off. TV and radio pundits do it, the written press do it, Fergie was notorious for it .... and so it goes on.
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Feb 14, 2023 19:34:57 GMT
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Post by oldie on Feb 14, 2023 19:34:57 GMT
Well, precisely. So it doesn't help if professional managers are on social media slagging them off...does it? No, it doesn't help if they are slagged off. TV and radio pundits do it, the written press do it, Fergie was notorious for it .... and so it goes on. I agree Was Fergie on Twitter?
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Post by gulfofaden on Feb 14, 2023 19:35:10 GMT
Or, you have no backbone and you mischaracterise others who have as their own poor character, to excuse your own? No idea. Are you suggesting I don't have the backbone to to openly discuss my views? Genuinely do not fully understand your point. So, whenever I talk about things like self-discipline and not indulging peoples poor choices, you’ve often said things like “you’re from the last century” It’s a lot harder to be straight and honest with people. It’s easy to be sympathetic to people, but that doesn’t solve the issue. Essentially I think sympathy and understand towards people who are being selfish and immoral is irresponsible, and it’s the easy way out, to not confront it. Compassion can be expressed by fundamentally being unpleasant but for the right reasons. Hence my post about my own issues and how consequences made me change, not understanding. I’ve had a lot of addiction around me and in my experience, it doesn’t work. Anyone who’s shown this to an addict and have them betray you again and again knows this. Mocking that as being some outdated concept rubbed me wrong, it’s actually really hard to do and comes from a place of love. Anyway, erm…up the gas!
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Feb 14, 2023 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 14, 2023 19:36:30 GMT
No idea. Are you suggesting I don't have the backbone to to openly discuss my views? Genuinely do not fully understand your point. So, whenever I talk about things like self-discipline and not indulging peoples poor choices, you’ve often said things like “you’re from the last century” It’s a lot harder to be straight and honest with people. It’s easy to be sympathetic to people, but that doesn’t solve the issue. Essentially I think sympathy and understand towards people who are being selfish and immoral is irresponsible, and it’s the easy way out, to not confront it. Compassion can be expressed by fundamentally being unpleasant but for the right reasons. Hence my post about my own issues and how consequences made me change, not understanding. I’ve had a lot of addiction around me and in my experience, it doesn’t work. Anyone who’s shown this to an addict and have them betray you again and again knows this. Mocking that as being some outdated concept rubbed me wrong, it’s actually really hard to do and comes from a place of love. Anyway, erm…up the gas! You are both right. Horses for courses.
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Post by Tilly's Thighs on Feb 14, 2023 19:36:40 GMT
I think with less people taking up refereeing, when the refs at the top retire, some of them are now replaced with referees who wouldn't normally get the Prem gig. This moves everybody up the chain, and filters down through the leagues, so Leagues One and Two are also getting lower quality referees than a few years ago. Having said that, with the abuse and threats that referees starting out get, I'm amazed that anybody sticks with it. I've reffed kids football a couple of times and regularly run the line and it's a lot harder than the armchair fans think. Add into that the culture of degrading, abusing, harassing and deliberate cheating that goes on in every game and I'm amazed anyone does it. By and large I think most refs are not really that bad and I can guarantee that they make less mistakes per game than literally every player and manager. I think that maybe the standards have slipped a bit, as the gene pool to pick from isn't as big as it used to be. Also, they are under more scrutiny than ever before, add the VAR mess into the mix for the Prem, and it's a very tough gig.
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