|
Post by oldie on Mar 12, 2023 11:43:01 GMT
Again….. nobody is calling for open borders 🙄 so what you asking for? A competent system and administration to deal with migrant applications. Not gross incompetence, lies and propaganda with an eye to winning elections
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Mar 12, 2023 11:44:40 GMT
Again….. nobody is calling for open borders 🙄 so what you asking for? That we take our fair share , we process asylum applications quickly and fairly . We open up processing centres in France ( they’ve offered but we turned them down) . It’s not difficult. The thing is to *some* people ( Farage and his ilk ) , whatever number we take will be too high . Be that 100,000 a year or 10 . They’ll still be up in arms claiming we’re full up or they’re taking our jobs or all the other bullshit lines they trot out .
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 11:44:50 GMT
[br The debate is about the parallels of language between Germany in 1930s and the current tory government. The Germans used divisive language that alienated the Jews as a threat to ordinary Germans. The current government uses language that alienates the refugees (not illegal because you cannot be an illegal asylum seeker) as a threat to ‘our’ ordinary people. The targets may have changed but the actions and language remain the same. And many of the ‘anti-illegals’ group would definitely have been anti-Jewish refugees in the 1930s. As many (including the Daily Mail and it’s family owners) were. Language and actions are completely different things. You could compare the 2 if we were out there with a pin popping there dinghies in the middle of the channel, but we don’t. That would be a comparison. Talk is cheap, and something needs to be done about it. Can’t just let in everyone, terrorists, sex traffickers, drug traffickers, sex offenders, these people need to be checked, and tracked at our own expense. Sigh. It's a direct comparison because GL only compared the rhetoric. The suggestion being, that left unchecked, that language MAY lead to actions.
|
|
|
Post by gasheadbatesy on Mar 12, 2023 11:50:12 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not).
There’s a bit of food for thought.
Football, politics don’t mix.
|
|
|
Post by Topper Gas on Mar 12, 2023 11:51:22 GMT
Oldie, I know you can see that the total failure of this government to deal with the issue is at the heart of the problem and the Home Secretary is beyond hope. But the problem has arisen that people feel a genuine concern at some of these economic migrants from all over coming here. They arrive in safe countries but want to come here. The government find a sympathetic press echoing their thoughts and of course this government now is clutching at any straw. But, and you’re right about what the Nazis did I think that was a lifetime away from what’s happening here. This country needs a grown up party that can recognise the problem and deal with it in a competent way so that those in genuine need can come here easily and quickly and those that don’t warrant it can’t. Until that happens the press and others will continue to fight amongst themselves. UTG! ps. We’re straying outside the realms of MOTD!! This is what I don't understand. You have made a good point in a balanced way. Illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Calling them swarms and deporting them to Rowanda is not something I would have expected from a sitting government in this country, even the Tories. Some posters on here are unable or unwilling to understand that it is possible to think immigration is an issue while at the same time recognising that there are very dangerous echos from the past. Indeed some of the language used by some on this thread is nasty. So many people who are proud we beat the Nazis are incredibly intolerant of others. Or some posters are getting a bit carried away, I can't see any real signs we're turning into Nazi Germany in the UK just because the Tories are trying to stop the Chanel Crossing.
|
|
|
Post by miltongas on Mar 12, 2023 11:52:11 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. You’ve held back? But you’re not racist. So what have you held back - moderate views?
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Mar 12, 2023 11:53:05 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. Go for it , don’t hold back . Tell us exactly what you think ?
|
|
|
Post by gasheadbatesy on Mar 12, 2023 11:55:08 GMT
🤐
|
|
|
Post by yattongas on Mar 12, 2023 11:56:36 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 11:59:38 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. If you fear your thoughts make you sound racist then perhaps it's time for a rethink of your thoughts. I'm not suggesting you are racist, before you get upset. It's never a bad time to stop and think about how and why we think how we do.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 12:01:34 GMT
This is what I don't understand. You have made a good point in a balanced way. Illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Calling them swarms and deporting them to Rowanda is not something I would have expected from a sitting government in this country, even the Tories. Some posters on here are unable or unwilling to understand that it is possible to think immigration is an issue while at the same time recognising that there are very dangerous echos from the past. Indeed some of the language used by some on this thread is nasty. So many people who are proud we beat the Nazis are incredibly intolerant of others. Or some posters are getting a bit carried away, I can't see any real signs we're turning into Nazi Germany in the UK just because the Tories are trying to stop the Chanel Crossing. Nor do I, but I definitely see some comparison in the division in society and the rhetoric being used on both side.
|
|
|
Post by miltongas on Mar 12, 2023 12:11:57 GMT
This is what I don't understand. You have made a good point in a balanced way. Illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Calling them swarms and deporting them to Rowanda is not something I would have expected from a sitting government in this country, even the Tories. Some posters on here are unable or unwilling to understand that it is possible to think immigration is an issue while at the same time recognising that there are very dangerous echos from the past. Indeed some of the language used by some on this thread is nasty. So many people who are proud we beat the Nazis are incredibly intolerant of others. Or some posters are getting a bit carried away, I can't see any real signs we're turning into Nazi Germany in the UK just because the Tories are trying to stop the Chanel Crossing. Isn’t that how it starts Topper? In 1945 William L Shirer, the American journalist, interviewed people in Germany. Most wouldn’t admit to voting Nazi but those who did claimed that they had no idea Hitler meant it. They thought it was just an election ploy to grab votes and that after he was elected he wouldn’t really try to implement his policies. Of course if they’d realised they wouldn’t have voted for him. Again, a parallel between language and action which we need to be vigilant over. That’s why Ian Kerhsaw’s (excellent in my opinion) documentary was called The Nazis: A warning from history.
|
|
|
Post by bluegas on Mar 12, 2023 12:12:56 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. Utterly agree with you. Saddens me that we are becoming so polarised.
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Mar 12, 2023 12:15:32 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. You’ve held back? But you’re not racist. So what have you held back - moderate views? Made me laugh 😂😂
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Mar 12, 2023 12:16:51 GMT
Or some posters are getting a bit carried away, I can't see any real signs we're turning into Nazi Germany in the UK just because the Tories are trying to stop the Chanel Crossing. Isn’t that how it starts Topper? In 1945 William L Shirer, the American journalist, interviewed people in Germany. Most wouldn’t admit to voting Nazi but those who did claimed that they had no idea Hitler meant it. They thought it was just an election ploy to grab votes and that after he was elected he wouldn’t really try to implement his policies. Of course if they’d realised they wouldn’t have voted for him. Again, a parallel between language and action which we need to be vigilant over. That’s why Ian Kerhsaw’s (excellent in my opinion) documentary was called The Nazis: A warning from history. Well said sir
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 12:22:17 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. You’ve held back? But you’re not racist. So what have you held back - moderate views? Part of me likes this post, but being devil's advocate here I don't think the left is ever going to help people learn and grow by labeling people racist. I could definitely have been labelled racist when I was a kid. Homophobic too I think. The best way to change that is to listen, understand, accept and challenge. In that order.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 12:25:02 GMT
I’m going to leave it here, but the irony of all this is freedom of speech, I have held back quite a bit, and wouldn’t dare say my full thoughts on here in fear of being called a racist (I am not). There’s a bit of food for thought. Football, politics don’t mix. Utterly agree with you. Saddens me that we are becoming so polarised. Ironically, this is exactly what GL trying to highlight.
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 12:26:48 GMT
You’ve held back? But you’re not racist. So what have you held back - moderate views? Part of me likes this post, but being devil's advocate here I don't think the left is ever going to help people learn and grow by labeling people racist. I could definitely have been labelled racist when I was a kid. Homophobic too I think. The best way to change that is to listen, understand, accept and challenge. In that order. I should add that I definitely flipped into a bit of social justice warrior for a while. Equally as blinded by hate and intolerance.
|
|
|
Post by oldie on Mar 12, 2023 12:28:49 GMT
Utterly agree with you. Saddens me that we are becoming so polarised. Ironically, this is exactly what GL trying to highlight. Exactly. Referring to your previous post about listening and learning, how does anyone deal with such a fundamental lack of comprehension?
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Mar 12, 2023 12:30:11 GMT
Ironically, this is exactly what GL trying to highlight. Exactly. Referring to your previous post about listening and learning, how does anyone deal with such a fundamental lack of comprehension? Patience.
|
|