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Post by tumshie on Jul 15, 2015 18:15:37 GMT
If that's your goal then it's an astronomical sized no from me. What happens when you buy them out? The ultimate goal should not be getting rid of the BoD. An ultimate goal would be something like having a fan-owned club, running within it's means (i.e. cost-effective), with a clear idea on how to achieve that including things such as improved marketing and improving revenue streams. If the goal is simply "get rid of the current BoD" then I pray to god your plan fails as this club will be far, FAR worse off than however much it is now! Absolutely. The motivation seems pretty clear to me. I'm out. Explain?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 18:21:58 GMT
If the goal was to get effective fans groups more involved in the running of the club and to get improved the way the current board do things then I'm all for it.
Getting rid of the only people stopping us going under, no matter how incompetent, isn't the smartest thing to do right now.
We need to find an effective way of getting our board performing more competently.
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Post by gashead1981 on Jul 15, 2015 18:30:20 GMT
To oust the board you will need at minimum to be able to repay the directors loans/buy their converted shares, plus the asset value of the club including all property and property with planning permission and give yourself at least a £5m working capital margin. Bottom line is you will need at least £15m. £10m to secure the club and £5m to run it in the way you think it should be run. You also need to have already in place a 12 month strategy to get the club to break even as you will be surprised how quickly that £5m will dry up when you dont. Hi, You might be right with these figures but it hasn't stopped clubs like Pompey, Blackpool and Newport doing exactly the same. This might not be viable, BUT what if it is ? .......... from small acorns !! Those arent exact figures but on the information I have and current market values of business and property (I deal in HNW asset accumulation/sales) then those are the type of figures you are talking. I have often mentioned Rovers to a few of my investment clients and its not attractive enough investment for them unless the stadium was in place. Difference with Pompey were they were bought back from the administrators and pheonixed meaning the debt had already been written down and the new company could be built from scratch using existing assets as collateral to reborrow any cashflow or gain working capital. Which is what only happens in football and not normal business. Blackpool want to be owned by the fans but so far no one has come up with the reddies. Newport were in a similar position to Pompey then bankrolled by a lottery winner. The most achievable thing to do would aim to buy all of the directors shares that arent owned by Higgs, get some kind of financial interest were the fans can attend the vital board meetings where far reaching decisions are made, but to do that you would need investors prepared to match the loaned working capital. Then eventually look to buy Higgs shares over a period of time. When the 51/49% split is made then the board has the power to force/replace the existing chairman or appoint a CEO. So the starting block will be around £6-7m to just get in the door. I would also make a financial investment but would want a controlling interest.
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Post by tumshie on Jul 15, 2015 18:34:32 GMT
If the goal was to get effective fans groups more involved in the running of the club and to get improved the way the current board do things then I'm all for it. Getting rid of the only people stopping us going under, no matter how incompetent, isn't the smartest thing to do right now. We need to find an effective way of getting our board performing more competently. I truly admire your thoughts HTE but sadly we've been going through these mini disasters for years I count ourselves so fortunate DC and the lads did what they did last season cause as a club nothing really changed after the lowest point in our history other than we got lucky with a fine manager and a very hard working bunch of lads. We are further in the financial mire/we are no nearer an adequate stadia/dialogue between board and fans is still awful/our image as a club still needs much work and PR. BUT and it's a really great BUT : On the field things are looking up and we might just achieve much against the odds
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Post by mftc on Jul 15, 2015 18:45:51 GMT
Why don't we try the gofunder /justgiving idea?
If we contacted Scott Sinclair, Ricky Lambert, Jason Roberst etc I would expect a few donations. Bruce Bannister is very wealthy and we try the wider footballing world, Beckham, Ferguson, Linekar etc. Surely no harm in trying and at least it woudl bring the club more attention to possible backers?. Why not ask Oscar if he would donate £1 of his pocket money for us, that would be a great story and may lead to teh decnt reds to do the same?
Why donlt the journalists who write the ad hoc peices to the Bristol Post write an article to the nationals and donate their fee to the cause?
Individually we dontl have enough money to make a difference. Like previous posts have said there is too much apathy and only a few people would want to get actively involved.
The first thing is that we have to try and cover each years losses. (Between £300,000 and £500,00?). We can't rely on sell on clauses or the club making to the second round of the league cup or players taking pay cuts. We are Bristol Rovers so agents automatically add on an extra 5% or 10% as we are perceived to be a BIG club.
Therefore, we have to collectively try and get more revenue. There are hundreds of ways of doing this. Bring a friend , workmate, classmate neighbour etc to a game, but a new shirt, a programe, the end of season DVD's, drink at the Mem not alledgely Trash supporting venues, travel by by SC coach not British rail, join Helpline, sell 5 more Xmas raffle tickets etc and this will help.
£500,000 between 6,000 fans for 25 home games a season works out a £3.33 each extra per game. Thats about one pint or one programme!. People have offered to donate £1000. I don't think we have reached the need for bucket collections just yet, so why not spend that £1000 at Pirate Lesiure, the bars, player sponsorship and hospitality?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 18:56:14 GMT
DO we supporters just now sit back and accept another failure at our club ? What is the future going to be like if we carry on under the stewardship of Nick Higgs and Co ? At best a yo-yo club between L2 and The Conference I suspect. It's not good enough for me and I hope for you - PLEASE READ ON ! A group of fans (as big or as small as necessary) get together to form a BRFC Supporters Trust (like at Newport County now and Pompey a year ago) and start raising money from supporters like you and me and also HOPEFULLY the wealthier ones to pledge substantial money in order to buy out Higgs and Co. For me, relegation into Conference was the straw that broke the footballing Camel's back and now the stadium disaster is the straw that broke the management of the club's back !! I'm prepared to give a lot of my time to get something going ( I did so by forming and running The Wellie Group - so you know I put my effort where my mouth is). I have ears that will help publicise this in the media. I will also contribute some money (don't have much sadly - I will pledge 1000 - 2000 quid) but every hundreds/thousands of pounds COULD count. So Gasheads, let's get into action, let's save our club and claim it back and RUN IT PROPERLY !! Spread the word if you think it could possibly work. Let's consider getting people together to discuss how it could all be possible. We continue to support the team, but in the meantime we can try to help make a better future for our club. So 1.) Do you support exploring this project ? 2.) Would you pledge money if it was 100 % organised and transparent ? 3.) Would you give up some of your time to attend meetings / research ideas/ collate information etc ? There's NOTHING to fear, probably hardly anything to lose and at least you'll know YOU HAVE DONE YOUR BIT to help potentially change our club for the better P.S. Those who are anti this idea - PLEASE don't have a go at me I DON'T CARE ! Mark Czekalski a Gashead for 40 plus years ( my Dad a Gashead, brothers Gasheads, Nephews Gasheads and my little son A Gashead !! Mark at least you are being positive. Possibly an initiative like this could make a difference, I think the aim should be to make this club sustainable and progressive. I don't see that supporters trust could actually run a club like ours, but maybe they could raise funds and directly influence decisions as to how those funds are used. So I would support 1)exploring the project. 2) and 3) would depend on how things develop
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Post by badengas on Jul 15, 2015 19:05:12 GMT
Mark, I take my hat off to you and also fully support you. I would put in £1000 to start with and would attend meetings etc. The club is run by idiots who after the latest failure, cannot be left unchallenged. Sadly, apathy does rule, I've been genuinely disturbed this week reading comments such as 'NH is not to blame', 'we don't need a new ground', 'doesn't matter' etc etc that I really do question whether there is enough will to make a stand. Fully behind it though. In for a grand too and time/effort if this takes off, all power to your elbow.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 15, 2015 19:17:48 GMT
Thanks for this. A goal to buy out the owners - that should be the ultimate one ! but things may turn out slightly differently - as long as the future of Rovers becomes better as a result ! I believe 100% it can be. If that's your goal then it's an astronomical sized no from me. What happens when you buy them out? The ultimate goal should not be getting rid of the BoD. An ultimate goal would be something like having a fan-owned club, running within it's means (i.e. cost-effective), with a clear idea on how to achieve that including things such as improved marketing and improving revenue streams. If the goal is simply "get rid of the current BoD" then I pray to god your plan fails as this club will be far, FAR worse off than however much it is now! If you had read the original thread this is what it says. You prefer the status quo - your welcome to your opinion. Thanks.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 15, 2015 19:18:32 GMT
Mark, I take my hat off to you and also fully support you. I would put in £1000 to start with and would attend meetings etc. The club is run by idiots who after the latest failure, cannot be left unchallenged. Sadly, apathy does rule, I've been genuinely disturbed this week reading comments such as 'NH is not to blame', 'we don't need a new ground', 'doesn't matter' etc etc that I really do question whether there is enough will to make a stand. Fully behind it though. In for a grand too and time/effort if this takes off, all power to your elbow. Great stuff.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 15, 2015 19:20:06 GMT
DO we supporters just now sit back and accept another failure at our club ? What is the future going to be like if we carry on under the stewardship of Nick Higgs and Co ? At best a yo-yo club between L2 and The Conference I suspect. It's not good enough for me and I hope for you - PLEASE READ ON ! A group of fans (as big or as small as necessary) get together to form a BRFC Supporters Trust (like at Newport County now and Pompey a year ago) and start raising money from supporters like you and me and also HOPEFULLY the wealthier ones to pledge substantial money in order to buy out Higgs and Co. For me, relegation into Conference was the straw that broke the footballing Camel's back and now the stadium disaster is the straw that broke the management of the club's back !! I'm prepared to give a lot of my time to get something going ( I did so by forming and running The Wellie Group - so you know I put my effort where my mouth is). I have ears that will help publicise this in the media. I will also contribute some money (don't have much sadly - I will pledge 1000 - 2000 quid) but every hundreds/thousands of pounds COULD count. So Gasheads, let's get into action, let's save our club and claim it back and RUN IT PROPERLY !! Spread the word if you think it could possibly work. Let's consider getting people together to discuss how it could all be possible. We continue to support the team, but in the meantime we can try to help make a better future for our club. So 1.) Do you support exploring this project ? 2.) Would you pledge money if it was 100 % organised and transparent ? 3.) Would you give up some of your time to attend meetings / research ideas/ collate information etc ? There's NOTHING to fear, probably hardly anything to lose and at least you'll know YOU HAVE DONE YOUR BIT to help potentially change our club for the better P.S. Those who are anti this idea - PLEASE don't have a go at me I DON'T CARE ! Mark Czekalski a Gashead for 40 plus years ( my Dad a Gashead, brothers Gasheads, Nephews Gasheads and my little son A Gashead !! Mark at least you are being positive. Possibly an initiative like this could make a difference, I think the aim should be to make this club sustainable and progressive. I don't see that supporters trust could actually run a club like ours, but maybe they could raise funds and directly influence decisions as to how those funds are used. So I would support 1)exploring the project. 2) and 3) would depend on how things develop Also very much appreciate this. I /we should not have an ONLY THIS vision but something must change drastically, don't you think ?
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Post by c4h10 on Jul 15, 2015 20:36:25 GMT
Please do not confuse realism with apathy. Each season there are posts on forums from fans who cannot afford to attend two games in one week. In my apathy, I have watched Rovers regularly since 1953, when I used to spend all my pocket-money to attend first and reserve team games. Nowadays, as a pensioner, I am grateful for the concession that allows me to afford a season-ticket. I could just about manage to put in a fiver a week - would that help? Considering that there has been an offer of ten grand in exchange for the position of Chief Executive Officer, followed by a second post telling us how good a business man the would-be CEO considers himself, my fiver a week should get me some minor position. REALISM PART 2:- If there are twenty-four teams in a league, or division thereof, one team has to finish twenty-fourth. They may be only a fraction less capable than the other twenty-three, or even less lucky, but they will still finish bottom. You cannot presume that a change of leadership will bring success. I do appreciate what you are trying to do, Mark, but it needs a re-think. It can't happen. It's just not possible.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 15, 2015 22:03:17 GMT
Thanks to everyone who have responded with some sensible comments. We should wait for others who haven't read it to chip in. I'm under no illusions what this is all about. I would ask anyone who is interested or think they are in looking into this to pm me over the next few days. I think initially the aim would be to get together with the aim of finding out what would be required to push forward and establish a steering group.
Cheers,
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 22:15:47 GMT
Mark at least you are being positive. Possibly an initiative like this could make a difference, I think the aim should be to make this club sustainable and progressive. I don't see that supporters trust could actually run a club like ours, but maybe they could raise funds and directly influence decisions as to how those funds are used. So I would support 1)exploring the project. 2) and 3) would depend on how things develop Also very much appreciate this. I /we should not have an ONLY THIS vision but something must change drastically, don't you think ? I'm not sure it's so much change that is needed at this time, more a taking stock of what options are available to take the club forward. Although having said that something that should change in my view is that the mem should not be neglected while we try to secure a new home. Aren't there still grants available for improvments?.
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Post by lulworthgas on Jul 15, 2015 22:41:29 GMT
I think we as fans should start a fund, not to buy out the directors but to have the cash ready to step in IF we do go into administration. That will be the only realistic chance the fans will have of securing our club. I fear it could be to late if we start getting cash together after the horse has bolted. If we do it now then small monthly donations could make all the difference compared to the same amount when facing a deadline from receivers.
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Post by parsonstgas on Jul 16, 2015 8:28:24 GMT
I think we as fans should start a fund, not to buy out the directors but to have the cash ready to step in IF we do go into administration. That will be the only realistic chance the fans will have of securing our club. I fear it could be to late if we start getting cash together after the horse has bolted. If we do it now then small monthly donations could make all the difference compared to the same amount when facing a deadline from receivers. I think that this is a very good point Lulworth. As many have pointed out it may not actually be a realistic goal to buy out the board but what may well be realistic is a fund which can possibly go some way in acheieving this or like you say ready to step into action if ever required. Not knocking the SC as they do great work but they hand over the money no questions asked, which when you look at the end result of 1 million pounds plus for the Share Scheme to end up with Ken Masters and BSS is disappointing in the least. As someone else pointed out the other day, these are not 'fans' representatives in any way. Brian's answer to every major issue is 'lets move on', 'get behind them' etc etc and I think Ken has really lost sight of even the slightest notion that he is there to represent the many, many people (inc me) that paid money to put him there.
Change has to happen in some way as letting this board carry on for another generation will be a disaster, at least doing 'something' may add some pressure.
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Post by markczgas on Jul 16, 2015 8:57:49 GMT
I also agree with Lulworth and Parsons, I genuinely think us supporters have to act and these ideas and I'm sure others are well worth discussing and thrashing out. I hope I can meet up with you guys and others soon. Please make contact.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 9:08:21 GMT
I think we as fans should start a fund, not to buy out the directors but to have the cash ready to step in IF we do go into administration. That will be the only realistic chance the fans will have of securing our club. I fear it could be to late if we start getting cash together after the horse has bolted. If we do it now then small monthly donations could make all the difference compared to the same amount when facing a deadline from receivers. I think that this is a very good point Lulworth. As many have pointed out it may not actually be a realistic goal to buy out the board but what may well be realistic is a fund which can possibly go some way in acheieving this or like you say ready to step into action if ever required. Not knocking the SC as they do great work but they hand over the money no questions asked, which when you look at the end result of 1 million pounds plus for the Share Scheme to end up with Ken Masters and BSS is disappointing in the least. As someone else pointed out the other day, these are not 'fans' representatives in any way. Brian's answer to every major issue is 'lets move on', 'get behind them' etc etc and I think Ken has really lost sight of even the slightest notion that he is there to represent the many, many people (inc me) that paid money to put him there.
Change has to happen in some way as letting this board carry on for another generation will be a disaster, at least doing 'something' may add some pressure.
The original share scheme would have achieved most of what is being demanded. BUT the scheme was fatally undermined by the actions of the Supporters Club. This element in the fan base is still there and you read it all the time in some of the posts on this forum. Mark, the wheel has been invented, there is just not enough horsepower to pull the cart
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 9:28:30 GMT
We are all too busy fighting with each other to ever get our sh** together enough to make a difference.
We couldn't organize 2 cakes on a plate.
What ever happened to our togetherness?
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Post by peterparker on Jul 16, 2015 9:33:45 GMT
right now I just want to know how the current BoD intend to pay back Wonga by the end of the year?
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Post by parsonstgas on Jul 16, 2015 10:05:54 GMT
right now I just want to know how the current BoD intend to pay back Wonga by the end of the year? You'll probably never find out the answer. The only answers Higgs gives are either to pre-staged questions via the BRFC site or completely bollocks. The fans forums that were meant to be on-going and multiple times a season never happened.
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