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Post by gasincider on Feb 15, 2016 21:20:41 GMT
Everyone. There are far more than 4 million issued shares as you can see from what I have posted above. The 4 million I believe Dinsdale refers to are those shown on the schedule. But that is only the directors and ex directors holdings.
Remember, the supporters club own about 6% , GD owns about 15% etc etc.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 15, 2016 21:22:40 GMT
While everyone is waiting to find out what's happening off the field at our club, I thought people might be interested to hear a couple of interesting items from this years accounts. I have to to say the relevant bits have been scanned and sent to me so it could be someone else with an anti Higgs/ board agenda. We lost £950,000 last year up from £566,000 the previous year. However the most interesting feature so far is the directors holdings. Now. Previous year. NH. 18.4%. 54.2% BB. 11.5%. 11.5% EW. 1.75%. 2.21% CJ. 0.43%. 1.62% On the face of it, our board no longer hold a majority of shares. It begs the question who now has the 37% that seem to have gone walkabout. Holdings have reduced from 69% to 32%. Of course they could be held in trusts, or even now owned by someone not currently on the board or any number of scenarios. Curiouser and curiouser. What page of the accounts are these percentage holdings shown as I can't any reference to these percentage figures in the accounts? It's interesting that NH's "Group Strategic Report" dated the 2 Feb suggests no prospective purchasers have ever shown any evidence they can supply the funds to invest in the club, that really makes a complete mockery of the consortium talk continually being put forward on the forum?? There is reference again to Plan B for the UWE but no indication how that is going to be funded or how we're going to clear the MSP loan which is due to be repaid this year. The accounts also show the wage bill "only" dropped by around 25% to £2.5m the bulk of which must surely be the playing budget, if so, it must be far greater than the £750K banded about on the forum and suggests DC did have a very good budget for the Conference, and most likely this season as well.
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Post by Strange Gas on Feb 15, 2016 21:22:49 GMT
I struggle to find % figures of share ownership in the accounts. They say he has 1.5m ordinary shares out of a total of about 4m which is more then 18%. Is it not just that his other shares are recorded differently to ordinary shares? I'll try to keep it as easy as I can. June 14 accounts. June 15 Accounts Total issued shares. 8,154,720. 8,167,690 (page 21) Individual holdings NH. 4,419,828. 54.2% 1,500,000. 18.36% BB. 938,293. 11.51% 938,293. 11.5% EW. 261,456. 3.21% 142,857. 1.75% CJ. 132,192. 1.62% 35,714. 0.43% Obviously then you take a measure of their shares over the issued share capital for the relevant year and multiply by 100 to give you the percentage. Hope this posts ok. Haven't we "just" converted equity to debt?
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 15, 2016 21:23:44 GMT
meanwhile in Italy................ I guess that's gone over most posters heads?
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Post by madridgas on Feb 15, 2016 21:26:05 GMT
Here IMHO are some interesting facts from the accts: - We lost £903k (before profit/loss on players) which was better than the £940k the year before - Income was down £647k. Players wages were down £679k - Admin expenses were up 65% (£156k...fees on the loans?) - Players / Centre of excellence 66 down from 67. Playing staff showing as 40....including loans, who are all those players? - Directors took no salary, nor any interest on loans totalling in excess of £1.7M although they did charge interest on their 1 and 3 year bonds. - MSP CAPITAL LOAN is quoted at 1.2% !! Please someone query that at the AGM. Should it be 1.2% per month? - REALLY SCARY IS THAT WE SPENT £1.1m ON THE UWE, WHICH IS NOT IN THIS YEARS LOSS. - DOUBLE SCARY IS WE SPENT £940k LAST YEAR, WHICH IS NOT IN THAT LOSS - THE DIRECTORS are showing a potential cost of the court case of £950K - SO WHEN / IF WE LOSE THE CASE and IF WE CAN'T MOVE TO THE UWE we may need to write off £3M, VIRTUALLY WRITING OFF THE VALUE OF THE CLUB and finally - Player additions shows £55,469 ...Blissett? Thanks SevernCider! And we owe Wonga 2.7 million If they are really only charging 1.2% per annum perhaps we should call them "Money for nothing"...
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Post by curlywurly on Feb 15, 2016 21:27:28 GMT
As with last year, I'm more worried about ".....the existence of a material uncertainty, which may cast doubt on the group's ability to continue as a going concern." Although we were all told not to worry about that last year. It's standard wording you will find in most football clubs accounts. True, but still a bit frightening.
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Post by gasincider on Feb 15, 2016 21:30:50 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month.
If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000.
Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon.
If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds.
Keep the faith
UTG.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 15, 2016 21:33:08 GMT
Here IMHO are some interesting facts from the accts: - We lost £903k (before profit/loss on players) which was better than the £940k the year before - Income was down £647k. Players wages were down £679k- Admin expenses were up 65% (£156k...fees on the loans?) - Players / Centre of excellence 66 down from 67. Playing staff showing as 40....including loans, who are all those players? - Directors took no salary, nor any interest on loans totalling in excess of £1.7M although they did charge interest on their 1 and 3 year bonds. - MSP CAPITAL LOAN is quoted at 1.2% !! Please someone query that at the AGM. Should it be 1.2% per month? - REALLY SCARY IS THAT WE SPENT £1.1m ON THE UWE, WHICH IS NOT IN THIS YEARS LOSS. - DOUBLE SCARY IS WE SPENT £940k LAST YEAR, WHICH IS NOT IN THAT LOSS - THE DIRECTORS are showing a potential cost of the court case of £950K - SO WHEN / IF WE LOSE THE CASE and IF WE CAN'T MOVE TO THE UWE we may need to write off £3M, VIRTUALLY WRITING OFF THE VALUE OF THE CLUB and finally - Player additions shows £55,469 ...Blissett? Thanks SevernCider! Is that players wages our employees wages, which inc's management, centre of excellence, catering staff etc? What's a worry is that despite a very good end to the season, attendances wise, inc Wembley losses before transfers remained virtually the same, in truth we haven't really learned anything from our relegation as it seems we're still spending well beyond our means, but now instead of Directors loans we're borrowing from wonga!
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Post by Parrot on Feb 15, 2016 21:35:19 GMT
meanwhile in Italy................ All this confirms is NH has piles
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 15, 2016 21:38:10 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month. If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000. Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon. If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds. Keep the faith UTG. So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club?
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Post by Parrot on Feb 15, 2016 21:39:09 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month. If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000. Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon. If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds. Keep the faith UTG. So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club? Yes !
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Post by peterparker on Feb 15, 2016 21:40:18 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month. If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000. Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon. If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds. Keep the faith UTG. So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club? The most frustrating or annoying thing is the current board dont have the money either or dont really want to. Barring winning this appeal and a potential out, coyld anyone else do any worse?
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Post by gasincider on Feb 15, 2016 21:40:55 GMT
Topper. I answered that question on the previous page hence my next posting to Dinsdale.
With regard to showing the money Topper, the consortium of which I am aware has spoken with TW, especially when NH was away, trying to get a meeting to go over it all. Despite having spoken with TW, NH never returned their calls. ( This is what I have been told)
It's difficult to progress it when one of the parties doesn't play ball. This is why I believe our consortium should go public and let all you guys and gals know what is happening. Sometimes it can take fan power to make people talk.
I can only assume that NH doesn't want to talk to consortium A because he wants to deal with consortium B. Why? I don't know. But as I said previously, it could be because one wants him gone and the other may offer him a position ongoing. But that is just a stab in the dark on my part.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Feb 15, 2016 21:45:07 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month. If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000. Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon. If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds. Keep the faith UTG. So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club? What? Honest Nick?? He's never lied to us before....
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Post by inee on Feb 15, 2016 21:45:23 GMT
While everyone is waiting to find out what's happening off the field at our club, I thought people might be interested to hear a couple of interesting items from this years accounts. I have to to say the relevant bits have been scanned and sent to me so it could be someone else with an anti Higgs/ board agenda. We lost £950,000 last year up from £566,000 the previous year. However the most interesting feature so far is the directors holdings. Now. Previous year. NH. 18.4%. 54.2% BB. 11.5%. 11.5% EW. 1.75%. 2.21% CJ. 0.43%. 1.62% On the face of it, our board no longer hold a majority of shares. It begs the question who now has the 37% that seem to have gone walkabout. Holdings have reduced from 69% to 32%. Of course they could be held in trusts, or even now owned by someone not currently on the board or any number of scenarios. Curiouser and curiouser. What page of the accounts are these percentage holdings shown as I can't any reference to these percentage figures in the accounts? It's interesting that NH's "Group Strategic Report" dated the 2 Feb suggests no prospective purchasers have ever shown any evidence they can supply the funds to invest in the club, that really makes a complete mockery of the consortium talk continually being put forward on the forum?? There is reference again to Plan B for the UWE but no indication how that is going to be funded or how we're going to clear the MSP loan which is due to be repaid this year. The accounts also show the wage bill "only" dropped by around 25% to £2.5m the bulk of which must surely be the playing budget, if so, it must be far greater than the £750K banded about on the forum and suggests DC did have a very good budget for the Conference, and most likely this season as well. But on the other hand NH goes on to say that the next few months are exciting times ,so not sure if that relates to a potential purchase, a large cash injection or something else. I'm useless at reading financial stuff
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Post by garystash on Feb 15, 2016 21:48:19 GMT
Peter. You are correct. The interest on the loan is 1.2% per month. If you look on page 20, the MSP loan is shown as £2,730,548. The original loan was £2.6 million. It is accruing at approx £31,000 per month, Sosa at February this year it has now reached approximately £2,978,000. Obviously, that is unsustainable, and perhaps now, some of the people who have asked why I believe it is time for a change can see where I am coming from. I have never been anti NH. But now there is a chance for someone to move us on, it's our only hope. It's obvious no one is funding us any more. The loan has been used to fund the court costs and run the club this season. If neither prospective buyers come through we are facing Armageddon. If however the first one, and even maybe the second one come through, we have a fantastic chance to progress in leaps and bounds. Keep the faith UTG. So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club? I dont think that's quite what he says. To quote the document when talking about interested investors: To me, this doesn't mean no investor has had sufficient funds. You see what you want though I guess.
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Post by gasincider on Feb 15, 2016 21:51:45 GMT
Haven't we "just" converted equity to debt? No. You can't do that. You can convert debt into equity, but not the other way round. It's like the fool south of the river. he recently wrote of about £48m from memory. The previous time he did something similar he converted the debt into shares because there are football league rules which limit the amount of interest you can pay on total borrowing. In there case he wouldn't have requested interest, but if you look on our accounts, there are various debts to directors, ex directors, MSP, etc etc. No football league club is allowed to exceed 7.5% interest on all borrowings without sanction from the FL. When you think that we are paying about 14.5% interest on the MSP loan, it gets a bit scary. The maximum interest bit is written into all league clubs Articles of Association, which is the rules by which they operate. Hope this helps.
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Post by peterparker on Feb 15, 2016 21:53:56 GMT
So are you suggesting NH is basically lying when his report to the shareholders dated early this month states that no prospective investors have ever shown evidence they have the funds to invest in the club? I dont think that's quite what he says. To quote the document when talking about interested investors: To me, this doesn't mean no investor has had sufficient funds. You see what you want though I guess. That depends what NH and the board consider sufficient funds and what anyone is willing or able to stup up Is it funds to take on the club and run it or funds to buy the directors out
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2016 21:54:45 GMT
I'm amazed the GD removed his charge on the stadium for such a small % return of his loans. Perhaps he knows how this is all going to end up?
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Post by madridgas on Feb 15, 2016 21:57:22 GMT
Here IMHO are some interesting facts from the accts: - We lost £903k (before profit/loss on players) which was better than the £940k the year before - Income was down £647k. Players wages were down £679k- Admin expenses were up 65% (£156k...fees on the loans?) - Players / Centre of excellence 66 down from 67. Playing staff showing as 40....including loans, who are all those players? - Directors took no salary, nor any interest on loans totalling in excess of £1.7M although they did charge interest on their 1 and 3 year bonds. - MSP CAPITAL LOAN is quoted at 1.2% !! Please someone query that at the AGM. Should it be 1.2% per month? - REALLY SCARY IS THAT WE SPENT £1.1m ON THE UWE, WHICH IS NOT IN THIS YEARS LOSS. - DOUBLE SCARY IS WE SPENT £940k LAST YEAR, WHICH IS NOT IN THAT LOSS - THE DIRECTORS are showing a potential cost of the court case of £950K - SO WHEN / IF WE LOSE THE CASE and IF WE CAN'T MOVE TO THE UWE we may need to write off £3M, VIRTUALLY WRITING OFF THE VALUE OF THE CLUB and finally - Player additions shows £55,469 ...Blissett? Thanks SevernCider! Is that players wages our employees wages, which inc's management, centre of excellence, catering staff etc? What's a worry is that despite a very good end to the season, attendances wise, inc Wembley losses before transfers remained virtually the same, in truth we haven't really learned anything from our relegation as it seems we're still spending well beyond our means, but now instead of Directors loans we're borrowing from wonga! Players/ management / Admin / Commercial Staff total 68 people (on average). For ease of numbers, lets say that the other 147 people (centre of excellence / bar / catering / stewards) cost only £85k. That would mean that Players/ management / Admin / Commercial Staff on average earn £40k p.a. How much do you think our top players are on ? I'd expect including the NI the club pays we have at least four over £100k ...I seem to recollect that 15 years ago Mark Walters, David Hillier, Robbie Pethick, Andy Thomson were allegedly on £3k a week. Yes, we live beyond our means. But how do clubs like Dagenham & Redbridge survive...with only a handful of admin / management?
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