|
Post by Centenary Gas on May 16, 2016 11:50:32 GMT
Would not be happy about this if I was a Cardiff fan. PT for me is another one of those decent coaches rather than a manager. PT and LL inherited a good bunch of lads, who they successfully galvanised on a run that would see us gate crash the playoffs and get promoted. As soon as they started to break up that squad and the spirit it held, the team started to fall apart. I can see PT struggling with the dressing room with Championship players, and the fans won't be kept onside for long with his tactics, which were hardly exciting. There was a reason our attendances were just as bad in league one as they were as when bottom of league two. DC brings in players with the right personalities and uses that to our advantage, with tactics that are rarely cautious or boring. Trolls signed decent footballers but fails to keep the command and respect needed to get anywhere with them. An extreme example would be his first day at West Brom, where after trying to give Ben Foster a telling off for being late, was basically told "who the hell are you to have a go at me?" Those talking up PT/LL's record in league one should remember how large the wage bill was to sustain that, and our gradual slip down the league. We were in L1 for 4 seasons ! Overspending for 4 seasons, and this is what we ended up with; Bristol Rovers 01 Andersen 02 Regan 03 Sawyer 05 Coles 15 Anthony 04 Lines 07 Campbell 11 Hughes 14 Brown 09 Akinde 17 Kuffour Substitutes 13 Green, 06 Tunnicliffe, 21 Clough, 22 Pell, 23 Swallow, 18 Richard, 28 Powell When we lost 3-0 at home to Orient on a Saturday before PT was sacked, we pulled in 5,500 to the Mem.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 15:26:42 GMT
Well I think you talk utter tosh!! So those clubs you mention did not celebrate their league one success because it was beneath their station? Behave. Somthe real test for Darrel starts now does it? And I bet you are one of those short sighted 'supporters' who will continue to wait till a little blip then call for his head. Just like some last season. You you give Trollope praise for his success with Ian Atkins side,then was the catalyst for our demise with crap signings/attitudes on high wages,£2,500/3000 some of those wasters were on, then say Darrels achievement is nothing even tho he had players doing the business for him and Rovers on £500/600!! Are you for real? There is no test for Darrel. Only progression,unlike Mr Trollope. The wage bill at rovers probably started spiralling out of control under Ian Holloway with the expensive players onboard at the time . I don't think I have ever called for any rovers managers head...ever. As for DC I'm not completely sure but I don't think I have criticised his team selection or tactics at all since day one. Did I say they never celebrated those games/seasons ?...no I didn't...I said they will not see them as highlights (of the clubs history).They will talk about cup finals,premier league wins or games ,European games and local derbies....I don't think playing at the mem will feature in the man city greatest moments. I also did not say his achievements (DC) were nothing I congratulated him . Rovers are now back to the starting line .....and the real test is how we do from now on. Do not confuse that with wanting DC to fail ...what would the logic in that be I want DC to achieve what I always wanted at the start of a league one (and other guises) season and that's to be challenging for the playoffs (or better if lucky). Which as a club that historically didn't get promoted to the championship very often was the natural level of expectancy. Sorry but my view has not altered one bit on what you are saying. As for the wage bill spiralling out of control under Holloway, I will disagree again as up to that fateful day in Cardiff those players more than earnt their wage and the salaries were under control and more than covered by the club. Unlike The Lennie/ Trollope era and Trollope saga days. From 2007 onwards the debts started piling up. And the wasters couldn't wait to join Rovers. We were regarded as a laughing stock and respect was lost from other clubs primarily because of Trollope and Higgs.
|
|
|
Post by aghast on May 16, 2016 16:12:35 GMT
Wow. Some stored up resentment about PT being released here. It's like listening in on a group therapy session.
I for one never realised quite how useless, clueless, inept, foolish, patronising, unreliable, unfaithful, weak, stupid, profligate, short-sighted, unwanted, unwelcome and overrated he was.
I just thought he was the only manager until DC who got us out of League 2 from 2001-2015, and that is not a bad legacy when all others before and after failed to do the same thing.
But I've been put right now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 16:12:41 GMT
I remember how we stormed through the playoffs and was really exited about what was to follow. However the tactic s trolls employed in league one were really negative. Good players released and poor signings made. Would he have turned it around? Who knows? But the writing was on the wall which was quite sad after what he initially achieved. So it was probably right for him to go but we didnt replace him with a better manager. And its been a shambles since until dc arrived
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 16:24:36 GMT
Wow. Some stored up resentment about PT being released here. It's like listening in on a group therapy session. I for one never realised quite how useless, clueless, inept, foolish, patronising, unreliable, unfaithful, weak, stupid, profligate, short-sighted, unwanted, unwelcome and overrated he was. I just thought he was the only manager until DC who got us out of League 2 from 2001-2015, and that is not a bad legacy when all others before and after failed to do the same thing. But I've been put right now. Trollope 2007-2009 is very different to Trollope 2009-10 though, in many's eyes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 16:33:18 GMT
Wow. Some stored up resentment about PT being released here. It's like listening in on a group therapy session. I for one never realised quite how useless, clueless, inept, foolish, patronising, unreliable, unfaithful, weak, stupid, profligate, short-sighted, unwanted, unwelcome and overrated he was. I just thought he was the only manager until DC who got us out of League 2 from 2001-2015, and that is not a bad legacy when all others before and after failed to do the same thing. But I've been put right now. There is no resentment from me,just the way I saw Rovers pan out under him and Lawrence and his spell as manager on his lonesome. The one thing I find strange is that some people continently forget that we won promotion under Trollope AND Lawrence!! The old head and young apprentice. Not Trollope on his own,, which was a disaster I'm afraid as most people will own up to witnessing.
|
|
|
Post by beaver132 on May 16, 2016 17:42:41 GMT
I saw some very average football during the LL PT era. We got promoted because of an amazing run. But I don't remember the football being anything special. This season and last? I think we've seen some pretty good stuff. As pitman said, the interchange between our forward players is very good. The passing has been swift and accurate (mostly) and we are a footballing side again. For me, it's more akin to the 72-73 side with prince etc now than at anytime since.
|
|
|
Post by syg on May 16, 2016 17:55:19 GMT
My recollection is that we played decent stuff when we got promoted. I thought it went downhill when Lawrence left.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 16, 2016 18:47:45 GMT
Wow. Some stored up resentment about PT being released here. It's like listening in on a group therapy session. I for one never realised quite how useless, clueless, inept, foolish, patronising, unreliable, unfaithful, weak, stupid, profligate, short-sighted, unwanted, unwelcome and overrated he was. I just thought he was the only manager until DC who got us out of League 2 from 2001-2015, and that is not a bad legacy when all others before and after failed to do the same thing. But I've been put right now. Amazingly most people think he was none of those things. Still he got us out of League 2 and assembled a squad eminently able to take us back to League 2, but in his defence he never called Ricky Lambert a fat midfielder so not completely clueless. I personally have far more faith that DC is more than capable of keeping us above League 2.
|
|
|
Post by dragongas on May 16, 2016 19:25:24 GMT
Trolls more than steadied the ship after the dross of Graydon and Atkins. I thought we were just below mid table when he was sacked. Trolls finished every season higher up than the last. Very harshly treated by this club in my eyes. Best of luck trolls. The next Wales manager I hope. NOT!
|
|
|
Post by madgas on May 16, 2016 20:54:33 GMT
Troll's had a mixed Rovers reign but largely positive.
When PT became Rovers manager he was extremely inexperienced but still got a promotion. His reign as first team coach was good. He progressed us each season. His reign as manager was poor.
However, I don't think it is as 'black and white' as that.
During his time as first team coach PT struggled to get the players he wanted. Often outbid. Whilst PT shoulders some of this blame, Lawrence must take most. Lawrence was brought in to oversee Trolls, guide and supervise. Yet, Lawrence failed to sign a player of any worth.
We were constantly linked with good footballers for our level but seemed to miss out every time. Ashley Barnes, Rubin Reid, Clayton Donaldson, Richard Keogh, Lee Frecklington. To name a few. Lawrence too often went with the wrong option, and eventually it caught up with us. In part, this was because we were already overpaying some of promotion heroes. The budget didn't give enough room to manoeuvre. We were continuously dependent on the loan market and had decent results.
It wasn't too bad, had we kept Lambert for 1 more year it might have been different but for the money we paid Lawrence we should have got more. A league 2 club with a DoF was frankly stupid, we should've been spending the wages on a scouting network.
After Lawrence left, the budget was all wrong.
Trolls certainly had faults he was appeared too friendly to certain people but whilst it's a risk to give Trolls the job, I wouldn't be surprised if he does well with Cardiff. A massive club with the right structures already in place will suit him.
|
|
|
Post by markczgas on May 16, 2016 21:21:03 GMT
I saw some very average football during the LL PT era. We got promoted because of an amazing run. But I don't remember the football being anything special. This season and last? I think we've seen some pretty good stuff. As pitman said, the interchange between our forward players is very good. The passing has been swift and accurate (mostly) and we are a footballing side again. For me, it's more akin to the 72-73 side with prince etc now than at anytime since. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but it seems that many on here have short memories - this is league table from 2008-09 You'll notice we scored 79 goals that's more than we scored this season, and with a +18 goal difference. We put 6 past Hereford, 5 past Walsall, 4 past Millwall, Hartlepool, Southend and Peterboro ! 1 Leicester City (C) (P) 46 27 15 4 84 39 +45 96 Promotion to Football League Championship 2009–10 2 Peterborough United (P) 46 26 11 9 78 54 +24 89 3 Milton Keynes Dons 46 26 9 11 83 47 +36 87 Qualification to Football League One playoffs 4 Leeds United 46 26 6 14 77 49 +28 84 5 Millwall 46 25 7 14 63 53 +10 82 6 Scunthorpe United (P) 46 22 10 14 82 63 +19 76 7 Tranmere Rovers 46 21 11 14 62 49 +13 74 8 Southend United 46 21 8 17 58 61 −3 71 9 Huddersfield Town 46 18 14 14 62 65 −3 68 10 Oldham Athletic 46 16 17 13 66 65 +1 65 11 Bristol Rovers 46 17 12 17 79 61 +18 63I certainly have some great memories of Lambert, Kuffour, Hughes, Lines , Campbell, Disley - playing some great footie and all in LEAGUE 1 !!! UTG !
|
|
|
Post by CrispPusher on May 16, 2016 21:41:04 GMT
that is just your view. Personally NO ONE can say what would have happened if Trollope had not been sacked. As for Penney actually he was a waste of time. Apart from Doncaster what else did he do? I would have given the job to Cambell and Hinton earlier, and even if we went down they would have taken us up without going through all that sh** with Big Bollox Buckle (How has his career turned out!) Anyone who has any knowledge of football knows you cannot get rid of an entire team, import a load of has beens and mercenaries and expect to win anything. The fact that Higgs then went on to employ a long list of no hopers as manager goes to suggest he knew little about how to run a club. Higgs was just lucky with DC. Lots of people (on here) wanted him sacked. Why did Rovers keep him? They didn't want to pay off his contract, and that was it. The main point you have forgot to mention is if Higgs gave the job to Campbell he would be condoning mutiny!! Those very same players who were Trollopes 'mates' shafted him. Pure and simple. As for Penney, he stood no chance because of Higgs yellow belly stance. Also Penney was abiding by Higgs orders which made his treatment even worse. Campbell, Lines, Anthony and co treated Rovers and us fans disgracefully and were an embarrassment to BRFC. I haven't forgotten and never will but will let sleeping dogs lie. Finally Higgs didn't get lucky with DC at all. John Ward seen a decent young manager and the rest is history. Big thanks to John Ward. Great post, the best thing Higgs could've done was to delegate the job of appointing the manager to somebody who understood football like John Ward; after caving to the players strike of the likes of Coles, Lines and Campbell under Dave Penney. Probably worth remembering Darrell's budget was a third of Trollope's at the end, and I doubt anybody would fancy the side Trollope left us with against our current one? To be fair to Trollope though we had a good few months after the paint pot final and held our own in L1 until Lennie and Rickie left, but admittedly his football was boring to watch aside from Lambert's magic.
|
|
|
Post by beaver132 on May 17, 2016 4:16:24 GMT
I saw some very average football during the LL PT era. We got promoted because of an amazing run. But I don't remember the football being anything special. This season and last? I think we've seen some pretty good stuff. As pitman said, the interchange between our forward players is very good. The passing has been swift and accurate (mostly) and we are a footballing side again. For me, it's more akin to the 72-73 side with prince etc now than at anytime since. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but it seems that many on here have short memories - this is league table from 2008-09 You'll notice we scored 79 goals that's more than we scored this season, and with a +18 goal difference. We put 6 past Hereford, 5 past Walsall, 4 past Millwall, Hartlepool, Southend and Peterboro ! 1 Leicester City (C) (P) 46 27 15 4 84 39 +45 96 Promotion to Football League Championship 2009–10 2 Peterborough United (P) 46 26 11 9 78 54 +24 89 3 Milton Keynes Dons 46 26 9 11 83 47 +36 87 Qualification to Football League One playoffs 4 Leeds United 46 26 6 14 77 49 +28 84 5 Millwall 46 25 7 14 63 53 +10 82 6 Scunthorpe United (P) 46 22 10 14 82 63 +19 76 7 Tranmere Rovers 46 21 11 14 62 49 +13 74 8 Southend United 46 21 8 17 58 61 −3 71 9 Huddersfield Town 46 18 14 14 62 65 −3 68 10 Oldham Athletic 46 16 17 13 66 65 +1 65 11 Bristol Rovers 46 17 12 17 79 61 +18 63I certainly have some great memories of Lambert, Kuffour, Hughes, Lines , Campbell, Disley - playing some great footie and all in LEAGUE 1 !!! UTG ! Don't get me wrong, I liked PT and was disappointed when he left. It's certainly a reminder that we actually did rather well. I'd settle for that next season. I think the slickness and style of play under DC is better though. IMO.
|
|
|
Post by fanboy on May 18, 2016 9:37:13 GMT
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on May 18, 2016 9:55:48 GMT
We always had gradual improvement under PT whatever your opinion of him as a manager. Having seen all the managers since mid 60s I always thought that PT was one of the better ones and you've only got to see the ones since to realise that he was better than most. Over his sacking, I always thought it was the defeat to Exeter in JPT that was the final straw from a board under fan pressure. But the next year was similar to the Charlton /Curbishly story in that you never knew how good he was until you saw the dross that replaced him and what happened to us! Now, good luck to him, a very good coach and I hope he has learnt from what he has seen and is now a better manager. But Cardiff, no interest to me it's all about DC, great manager and OUR manager. I think PT deserves more respect than some comments on here just because he's going back as a manager of another club. After all he was a manager for us in one of our 6 promotions and that alone deserves great respect IMO. Good luck to him but it's nothing to do with us now, just because he was our manager doesn't mean he's shouldn't manage anyone else. UTG!
|
|
|
Post by chewbacca on May 18, 2016 9:59:10 GMT
I remember at the time a lot of forum users questioned why we had Lawrence, and said he was a waste of money. I'd assume a lot of those posters now are panning Trollope as a manager. Lawrence & Trollope worked well together, they got results and achieved our highest league position this century. The binning of Lawrence started a decline that has taken 6 years to recover from. Trollope is a very good coach and worked well with a man that delivered him good players.
|
|
|
Post by fanboy on May 18, 2016 10:01:50 GMT
We always had gradual improvement under PT whatever your opinion of him as a manager. Having seen all the managers since mid 60s I always thought that PT was one of the better ones and you've only got to see the ones since to realise that he was better than most. Over his sacking, I always thought it was the defeat to Exeter in JPT that was the final straw from a board under fan pressure. But the next year was similar to the Charlton /Curbishly story in that you never knew how good he was until you saw the dross that replaced him and what happened to us! Now, good luck to him, a very good coach and I hope he has learnt from what he has seen and is now a better manager. But Cardiff, no interest to me it's all about DC, great manager and OUR manager. I think PT deserves more respect than some comments on here just because he's going back as a manager of another club. After all he was a manager for us in one of our 6 promotions and that alone deserves great respect IMO. Good luck to him but it's nothing to do with us now, just because he was our manager doesn't mean he's shouldn't manage anyone else. UTG! You say that, but in his final season we were on course for relegation when he left. And that's why he was sacked. The JPT was indeed probably the only reason he was hanging on for his job and the manner of that defeat summed us up that year. We had no bottle. I think the decision to sack PT was definitely correct - unfortunately we replaced him poorly. We'd have fallen apart with our without him though.
|
|
|
Post by warehamgas on May 18, 2016 10:10:59 GMT
I saw some very average football during the LL PT era. We got promoted because of an amazing run. But I don't remember the football being anything special. This season and last? I think we've seen some pretty good stuff. As pitman said, the interchange between our forward players is very good. The passing has been swift and accurate (mostly) and we are a footballing side again. For me, it's more akin to the 72-73 side with prince etc now than at anytime since. Strangely the football in 70-73 was pretty good although we failed to go up and the season we went on that great run leading to promotion, 1973-74 Don Megson had some early season criticism because we were a very strong defensive side but less attacking than previous teams in the 2/3 years before. Once we hit the top and the unbeaten run became special the criticism obviously stopped but the football itself was less exciting than the years before we went up in pure footballing terms. From 1973 onwards we were a very efficient, organised side with a great attack but Don Megson always started with a strong defence and strong midfield and he would settle for draws. He had a very straightforward approach and loved 1-0 wins! Since Christmas, DC has put together some of the best footballing play I have seen for many many years and deserves real credit for playing the right way. We have a great disciplinar y record and other teams have been genuinely frightened of our football. The guy is special and I hope we can keep him. And on the thread of PT the football the year we went up 06-07 was nowhere near as good as this IMO despite the fantastic run at the end of 07. My point however is that PT deserves real credit for his continual improvement and as a Rovers promotion manager and those have been pretty rare in my 50 odd years of supporting Rovers. UTG!
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on May 18, 2016 10:11:18 GMT
I think this is a poor appointment for Cardiff. He has no pedigree of managing a championship side. Not to mention that he will be with Wales in the euros this summer so not all his energy will be focused into Cardiff for next season.
Having said that, I don't think Trollope will be making the signings at Cardiff and will be used as more of a yes man. His appointment would not inspire me as a Cardiff fan though.
|
|