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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 16:57:36 GMT
Two of those loan players were regular, good players in our league last year I would've presumed before signing them that DC had had them watched, knew what they could bring to the squad and how he was going to use them. The evidence suggests not though. The Chelsea lads I wouldn't be surprised if they were signed sight unseen Could any manager anticipate Roos would suddenly start dropping crosses for no obvious reason? As far as Roberts as I said none of us really know what's gone on with him, apart from Henshall he's been the only loan player not to get a decent chance under DC. Henshall was here under Ward I think... Roberts was never going to oust Brown, and having 3 players for the RB slot is a bit excessive. Having said that, liked Roberts when he did play at Northampton etc. and thought he could be given more of a chance when Leads wasn't in the team.
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Post by ipswichrover on Jan 5, 2017 17:49:30 GMT
Really disappointed with this, makes you wonder when Mansell and Lawrence are selected before him vs Charlton whether DC actually rates him. It might be that DC has known for a while that Colkett was probably going to be recalled and that is why he has being testing out Mansell and Lawrence to see what his options were. Not a lot of point picking someone you know you are about to lose.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jan 5, 2017 17:59:27 GMT
If a player is recalled its because the parent club either want to bring them back into the camp to challenge for the first team squad or want to work on them in training correcting issues that have been spotted during the players loan spell. The other reason being that the player wasn't getting the number of games the parent club wanted them to have to gain more experience. The option then to reappoint them to another club where that experience/game time is more likely to happen. CC had some good moments at Rovers and its worth remembering those and thank him for those. He and Rovers will now move on and hopefully both will go on to better things. CC was always competition for lines in a 442 and Lines was always going to get the nod. The other options were different formations ,formations the fans didn't seem to like. So im not so sure what any fuss is about. Very well put. I'm sure he has learned a lot with us, and the fact that he hasn't been flogged to death could also be seen as a bonus. It is after all, his first taste of pro football. He has had plenty of match-time. I think this contrasts with Boateng, who Palace were probably a bit peeved that he started so few matches given he is further down the road in terms of experience, hence why he has gone straight back out on loan to a club in the same division.
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Post by Strange Gas on Jan 5, 2017 18:11:24 GMT
Thought he was good, probably best of our loanees. But not yet 1st team ready so no massive loss. Thanks for the goals and good luck though. Suspect he will play higher one day
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Post by mariobalotelli on Jan 5, 2017 18:15:34 GMT
I'd love to know what Wael thinks about this. Ignore what he says on social media. IMO he is probably not happy. Then maybe he purchased the wrong team if he cares about Chelsea that much. He owns Bristol Rovers, I'm sure the guy is backing Clarkes choices and isn't going to kick up a fuss because we lost a player we had on loan from the club he supports.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 5, 2017 18:16:46 GMT
Really disappointed with this, makes you wonder when Mansell and Lawrence are selected before him vs Charlton whether DC actually rates him. It might be that DC has known for a while that Colkett was probably going to be recalled and that is why he has being testing out Mansell and Lawrence to see what his options were. Not a lot of point picking someone you know you are about to lose. Both Manse & Lawrence have returned to fitness so do we really need so many CM's when the area's we need to improve, in most posters opinions, are goalie and CB, with possibly two of the latter now needed rather than just the one yesterday.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jan 5, 2017 18:54:01 GMT
It might be that DC has known for a while that Colkett was probably going to be recalled and that is why he has being testing out Mansell and Lawrence to see what his options were. Not a lot of point picking someone you know you are about to lose. Both Manse & Lawrence have returned to fitness so do we really need so many CM's when the area's we need to improve, in most posters opinions, are goalie and CB, with possibly two of the latter now needed rather than just the one yesterday. Hold on a minute you were siggesting splashing the cash on Bogle over anything else. I ceetainly think we need more strength in midfield than we do upfront!
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Post by madgas on Jan 5, 2017 18:58:21 GMT
Class player, genuinely might play for England one day.
However, Chelsea don't pick out team and although he had patches of brilliance he wasn't quite putting it all together for an entire match. I wish him well.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Jan 5, 2017 19:06:57 GMT
I think people saying that DC's loans this season have been a total failure are wide of the mark. Colkett, Boateng and Clarke-Salter have all played enough to have made a decent contribution to getting us to 10th in the table. What is also not quantifiable is how much of an impetus this competition might have on the likes of Ollie Clarke, who has played two of his very best Rovers performances recently and is developing his game all the time. Competing with players with arguably superior technical ability than him, and ultimately seeing them off to claim his place in the side, will have done wonders for his confidence. There's no suggestion that any of the loanees have been bad apples around the changing room. DC has cleared the decks of loanees a few times in his tenure and the side has strengthened as a result. Who's to say it won't happen again? People say 'what's the point of bringing in loanees if their not going to improve our starting XI' but then surely we'd rather have our own players starting if possible? DC has had loanees as squad players throughout his reign and the likes of McBurnie, Fallon, Bell-Baggie and Roberts being here without getting much game time has ultimately done us no harm whatsoever. If DC follows the pattern of the last 2 seasons we will see significant squad-strengthening in this window, with players that will be here permanently (think Easter, Lines, Gaffney) rather than temporarily.
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Post by yategas78 on Jan 5, 2017 22:07:49 GMT
I thought it was a season long loan?
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Post by mjhgas on Jan 5, 2017 22:24:12 GMT
Dennis Bailey - most influential loan signing ever. Marcus Stewart/ Gary Mabbutt - best youngsters produced by Rovers ever.
Charlie Colkett - forgotten in a fortnight! Who was that bloke we had on loan from Palace? and the one from Swansea?
IDCWT!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 23:34:04 GMT
Oh my goodness. People saying he isn't good enough really need to open their eyes and actually look at our squad - particularly the middle four who started on Saturday. so you get all indignant when people are critical of say ollie clarke and lines saying we shouldnt be slagging our own players etc but its ok if its lawrence,sinclair,mansell and moore?? whats the word for that? i know hypocrite
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 23:47:52 GMT
Strange how Chelsea put a recall clause for Charlie but not for Tammy Abraham who had already impressed their new manager?
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 5, 2017 23:53:33 GMT
Very disappointing. Despite showing signs of inexperience, he clearly had flashes of creative brilliance in him which can win games. We'll look back at this in years to come and wonder why he didn't feature more I strongly suspect. DC's said previously he doesn't like including playing loan players who don't have long term future here and it's very apparent with the game time of Colkett and Boateng. Can't imagine Wael will be overly impressed as it will inevitably affect our chances of future Chelsea loans. And Mansell and Lawrence have long term futures? I can see no serious logic whatsoever behind the midfield at Charlton, it was as if DC was treating it as a reserve game and waiving the white flag. He cannot honestly believe that LL (released a year ago from league one) and Mansell (released 2.5 years ago from league two) are good for a start in league one, alongside Sinlair and a paceless attack? At least Colkett, even on the wing, would of provided some outlet. in both the last two seasons DC has started the season with Mildy, given him a few games and decided he's not the man for the job. can you not see any parallels to Charlton? maybe... we'll have to wait and see, and today's injury news hasn't helped
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 5, 2017 23:58:32 GMT
If Chelsea recalled CC because DC didn't play him enough, then good riddance. Simple as that. There's no way we can let them dictate what team DC picks. I really liked him and rated him and he will be a very decent player. But we just can't let outside influences affect our team selection. That would be mad. why get him in the first place then. DC & Co have been chasing him for 18 Months before Chelski let him come here. He most have had a look at him during that time ? had he seen him in a real game, against real men?
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 6, 2017 0:11:10 GMT
Is that the tenth time you've posted that on this thread? Do you believe it yet? Clubs loan players out to get game time end of. When clubs don't give those players game time then they're less likely to be loaned players again. Simples I'm sure you can understand but if not just keep repeating yourself. To be fair you're pretty much dismissing what he is saying. If all clubs are in the same boat then they're not going to get game time anywhere. So what will PL clubs do? Stop loaning players out altogether and just have them sat in the stands watching the first team? I think this new rule is pretty ridiculous because it is forcing clubs to make a decision on their squad for a few months at a time and there are going to be lots of situations like this where players will be loaned simply for backup to cover injuries. Yet another masterplan of player development by the FA stop talking sense, we got a lynching to go to. the system is f'ed - not DC, and not CC. Chelsea have circa 30 players out on loan, ranging from £10m players like Loic remy, to a goalkeeper loaned to the metropolitan Police. The system, inc EPPP, is a total joke and totally geared up to stockpiling talent that comes to them cheap and will often make a profit even though they did little to deserve it / isn't realistic. making the rich even richer. Which handily mirrors the plight of football fans, who instead of sticking together get pulled apart by the petty squabbles.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jan 6, 2017 0:27:29 GMT
I think people saying that DC's loans this season have been a total failure are wide of the mark. Colkett, Boateng and Clarke-Salter have all played enough to have made a decent contribution to getting us to 10th in the table. What is also not quantifiable is how much of an impetus this competition might have on the likes of Ollie Clarke, who has played two of his very best Rovers performances recently and is developing his game all the time. Competing with players with arguably superior technical ability than him, and ultimately seeing them off to claim his place in the side, will have done wonders for his confidence. There's no suggestion that any of the loanees have been bad apples around the changing room. DC has cleared the decks of loanees a few times in his tenure and the side has strengthened as a result. Who's to say it won't happen again? People say 'what's the point of bringing in loanees if their not going to improve our starting XI' but then surely we'd rather have our own players starting if possible? DC has had loanees as squad players throughout his reign and the likes of McBurnie, Fallon, Bell-Baggie and Roberts being here without getting much game time has ultimately done us no harm whatsoever. If DC follows the pattern of the last 2 seasons we will see significant squad-strengthening in this window, with players that will be here permanently (think Easter, Lines, Gaffney) rather than temporarily. yes, but you're using logic and rational thought. some people want everything. they want the perfect loanee and then at the end of the loan for us to get him on a free transfer, for less money than he was on before. they want us to develop youth, and use loanees. they want youthful fitness, with bulk as well, and an experienced head on the shoulders. they want lightning pace, and to be 6' 5" and nimble. they want them to stay on their feet, and also go down at the right time. And, anyone who looks at the last two seasons will know DC keeps budget in reserve and strengthens constantly, not just in the window (e.g. free agents, people deliberately released from contracts who then miraculously get signed the day after). He also specialises in 'insurance players' like Bell-Baggie, Josh wakefield & Rory fallon, who quite literally never play but are there just in case.
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Post by gasify on Jan 6, 2017 6:52:16 GMT
I am in the 'sad to see him go' camp. I believe you could build a really good team around him.
However, if he is never going to be your player then you cannot build on that. So, I wish him all the best and will be surprised if he doesn't make an England debut at some point.
We have had a big discussion this season about the Checkatrade cup/trophy/thimble and how the lower leagues are going to be destroyed by the premier league youth teams. We have also heard about the possibility that there will be a 5th league started between league 2 and the conference filled with Premier league reserve sides. Arsne Wenger talking about feeder clubs in the lower leagues and how this again is an example of Premier League arrogance.
Fast forward to now and we have let CC go and the discussion is will we get any more Premier League youth team players. If the owner club is dictating how many games they should be playing and then throwing their toys out of the pram if that quota is not achieved. Then haven't we already become a feeder club by proxy? If your not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
I say f*ck em. F*ck em all. Hopefully our fellow league clubs will also have the same attitude. It's only when the premier league clubs have all the talent, yet no games for them to play that they will realise there is nothing to gain in talent hording. If they are good enough then they should make their debut in their league.
I also think that this applies to us also. What talent do we have on loan at the moment? How are our players not old/ready enough to play in our first team yet another clubs player of the same age and experience is ready. This whole thing is messed up.
Loans should only be allowed if there is a purchase option at an amount agreed at the beginning of the loan (ideally those figures should be disclosed to the public).
I too cannot forget the Sinclair affair, a great player we lost for bugger all to Chelsea (and the way that they approached him was outrageous) who sent him out on loan constantly, sold him for a £300k profit (we got 15%) and then he was sold by Swansea for a £6M profit which I guess Chelsea got their 15% of and if we were lucky we got our 15% of their 15%.
It sucked, we should make a stand and not allow players to be loaned back into the league to benefit the coffers of the premier league clubs.
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Post by LJG on Jan 6, 2017 7:26:22 GMT
Oh my goodness. People saying he isn't good enough really need to open their eyes and actually look at our squad - particularly the middle four who started on Saturday. so you get all indignant when people are critical of say ollie clarke and lines saying we shouldnt be slagging our own players etc but its ok if its lawrence,sinclair,mansell and moore?? whats the word for that? i know hypocrite Err nope. As I said in my response above, it's one thing to write off a young player who clearly demonstrates skill and quality just because of their youth or the imagined sleights of "looking disinterested" and quite another to recognise the limitations of players who are returning from long term injury and a prolonged period outside the first eleven. In fact rather than being hypocritical this approach is completely consistent with my previous posts.
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Post by peterparker on Jan 6, 2017 8:11:44 GMT
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