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Post by countygroundhotel on Apr 12, 2017 10:00:55 GMT
I'll make a £50 bet (proceeds to FFSC) that the next set of accounts will show no significant (I expect to see an increase) in debts. If there is a significant reduction I'll pay the £50 if there isn't you pay the £50. Deal? No, of course not. I never said we would be debt free so you are asking me to agree to something I don't subscribe to. Please stop trying to be right all the time, it is okay to have a different opinion or occasionally be wrong. Absolutely fine to have different opinions not everyone accepts mine but that is fine. And unless you want to give FFSC £50 then in my opinion you've made the right choice in not taking the bet. All I'm doing is pointing out the facts, very many posters on here stated the club were debt free before these accounts were published, and highlighting what dangers there could be to the club if things don't go as Dwane Sports want or expect. The only right or wrong is in believing the facts or believing rumour as fact.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 10:01:35 GMT
Digressing slightly from the previous posts but in some ways relevant. I will be disappointed if the Manager says next season that he is still operating on a bottom eight playing budget if we are still in this division - not sure he will say it again though. We are now an established 1st Division Club and It would demonstrate to me that there is a level of real commitment by the board if we are able to attract good players to the club on a permanent rather than on a loan basis. I really feel we need to identify with our own players rather than players (however good/or bad) that we know will be moving on in the short term. However good or bad the infrastructure is, the attraction every week is what is seen on the pitch so whilst the investment off the pitch is good to see - I feel we need to see investment on it as well. Sadly I'm not sure its going to happen at the moment - I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by Gas_Quarters on Apr 12, 2017 10:25:23 GMT
Digressing slightly from the previous posts but in some ways relevant. I will be disappointed if the Manager says next season that he is still operating on a bottom eight playing budget if we are still in this division - not sure he will say it again though. We are now an established 1st Division Club and It would demonstrate to me that there is a level of real commitment by the board if we are able to attract good players to the club on a permanent rather than on a loan basis. I really feel we need to identify with our own players rather than players (however good/or bad) that we know will be moving on in the short term. However good or bad the infrastructure is, the attraction every week is what is seen on the pitch so whilst the investment off the pitch is good to see - I feel we need to see investment on it as well. Sadly I'm not sure its going to happen at the moment - I hope I'm wrong. I would be surprised if we haven't spent well under our budget this season for these reasons: 1.) Money from the Chelsea game (£250k for a guess) 2.) £300k from MT 3.) Our wage bill will have gone down in January. More players left than joined including our top earner. I can't imagine any of our January savings will be on big wages. I would be surprised if we're not at least £500k better off in our playing budget than we expected to be. Hopefully that extra £500k will be used for players, not necessarily transfer fees, but it would mean an extra £10k per week in the wage budget next season which could get you two or three good players at this level. UTG! Edit: Just to clarify, this is all complete guesswork and opinions, anyone who can correct me or disagree with me on this is more than welcome to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 10:26:32 GMT
Well, I'm worried about our future. It all seems a bit too close for comfort to my mind. Having debt is never a good thing. I agree that debt is not good, however, it does seem to be the norm with football clubs. I think the fact that they are investing in the training ground is a positive sign, and they do want to make the club sustainable, rather than throw money at it. I would suggest that the small increase in ST prices shows that they do value the fanbase too. Don't have too many sleepless nights about it!
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Post by peterparker on Apr 12, 2017 10:44:14 GMT
Digressing slightly from the previous posts but in some ways relevant. I will be disappointed if the Manager says next season that he is still operating on a bottom eight playing budget if we are still in this division - not sure he will say it again though. We are now an established 1st Division Club and It would demonstrate to me that there is a level of real commitment by the board if we are able to attract good players to the club on a permanent rather than on a loan basis. I really feel we need to identify with our own players rather than players (however good/or bad) that we know will be moving on in the short term. However good or bad the infrastructure is, the attraction every week is what is seen on the pitch so whilst the investment off the pitch is good to see - I feel we need to see investment on it as well. Sadly I'm not sure its going to happen at the moment - I hope I'm wrong. I wouldn't necessarily believe anything DC says regarding playing budget. Sometimes I think he has used 'the bottom 8' thing to play down expectation and to not be seen as big payers like we have in the past
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 12, 2017 11:00:20 GMT
Not necessarily, no. It could be (for example) paid off, written off, deferred or restructured. It's just that it is 'due' and the owners agreed to stay committed for the 12 months as stated in the accounts. The auditors would need to make reference if they felt otherwise. I don't know and wouldn't pretend otherwise. I'll make a £50 bet (proceeds to FFSC) that the next set of accounts will show no significant (I expect to see an increase) in debts. If there is a significant reduction I'll pay the £50 if there isn't you pay the £50. Deal? We got more chance of Mr Pantsdown building the dam thing and giving it to us than the club ever being debt free in the near future, that not the Arab way to do things
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 12, 2017 11:25:28 GMT
I'll make a £50 bet (proceeds to FFSC) that the next set of accounts will show no significant (I expect to see an increase) in debts. If there is a significant reduction I'll pay the £50 if there isn't you pay the £50. Deal? We got more chance of Mr Pantsdown building the dam thing and giving it to us than the club ever being debt free in the near future, that not the Arab way to do things Or indeed the Corporate way. Having debtors and being in debt can be different things. It's been known for a company to take out a short term loan just before their accounts are due to show better liquidity. The big concern is the ongoing trading loss, something that probably won't be addressed until we generate more non match day revenue, ergo the UWE.
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Post by LJG on Apr 12, 2017 11:51:14 GMT
Well, I'm worried about our future. It all seems a bit too close for comfort to my mind. Having debt is never a good thing. I've just checked my mortgage statement. Turns out I owe them three times as much as I earn in an entire year! I'm sh*tting it.
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Post by baggins on Apr 12, 2017 11:57:24 GMT
Well, I'm worried about our future. It all seems a bit too close for comfort to my mind. Having debt is never a good thing. I've just checked my mortgage statement. Turns out I owe them three times as much as I earn in an entire year! I'm sh*tting it. Next year it'll be 4.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 12, 2017 12:11:17 GMT
Well, I'm worried about our future. It all seems a bit too close for comfort to my mind. Having debt is never a good thing. I've just checked my mortgage statement. Turns out I owe them three times as much as I earn in an entire year! I'm sh*tting it. Well, given Rovers appears to run at a loss, and have debts equal to their asset and would find it very difficult to move house, downsize or rent somewhere more affordable to income I would respectfully suggest the 2 scenarios are very different. Unless you are in negative equity I would also assume that your debt is much less than the asset you are borrowing against.
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Post by baggins on Apr 12, 2017 12:17:48 GMT
I've just checked my mortgage statement. Turns out I owe them three times as much as I earn in an entire year! I'm sh*tting it. Well, given Rovers appears to run at a loss, and have debts equal to their asset and would find it very difficult to move house, downsize or rent somewhere more affordable to income I would respectfully suggest the 2 scenarios are very different. Unless you are in negative equity I would also assume that your debt is much less than the asset you are borrowing against. We're talking about a family who own a Bank. Actually own a Bank. A succesful one at that. I think they just about know what they're doing. Don't panic.
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Post by knowall on Apr 12, 2017 12:21:16 GMT
Digressing slightly from the previous posts but in some ways relevant. I will be disappointed if the Manager says next season that he is still operating on a bottom eight playing budget if we are still in this division - not sure he will say it again though. We are now an established 1st Division Club and It would demonstrate to me that there is a level of real commitment by the board if we are able to attract good players to the club on a permanent rather than on a loan basis. I really feel we need to identify with our own players rather than players (however good/or bad) that we know will be moving on in the short term. However good or bad the infrastructure is, the attraction every week is what is seen on the pitch so whilst the investment off the pitch is good to see - I feel we need to see investment on it as well. Sadly I'm not sure its going to happen at the moment - I hope I'm wrong. I would be surprised if we haven't spent well under our budget this season for these reasons: 1.) Money from the Chelsea game (£250k for a guess) 2.) £300k from MT 3.) Our wage bill will have gone down in January. More players left than joined including our top earner. I can't imagine any of our January savings will be on big wages. I would be surprised if we're not at least £500k better off in our playing budget than we expected to be. Hopefully that extra £500k will be used for players, not necessarily transfer fees, but it would mean an extra £10k per week in the wage budget next season which could get you two or three good players at this level. UTG! Edit: Just to clarify, this is all complete guesswork and opinions, anyone who can correct me or disagree with me on this is more than welcome to. Good summary and certain that the playing budget will cope next season
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on Apr 12, 2017 12:22:13 GMT
Well, given Rovers appears to run at a loss, and have debts equal to their asset and would find it very difficult to move house, downsize or rent somewhere more affordable to income I would respectfully suggest the 2 scenarios are very different. Unless you are in negative equity I would also assume that your debt is much less than the asset you are borrowing against. We're talking about a family who own a Bank. Actually own a Bank. A succesful one at that. I think they just about know what they're doing. Don't panic. Agreed, we are being run by bankers. Where as the sh** are being run by a w**ker.
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Post by baggins on Apr 12, 2017 12:23:31 GMT
We're talking about a family who own a Bank. Actually own a Bank. A succesful one at that. I think they just about know what they're doing. Don't panic. Agreed, we are being run bankers. Where as the sh** are being run by a w**ker. Yep. Ran and supported by.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 12, 2017 12:23:40 GMT
Well, given Rovers appears to run at a loss, and have debts equal to their asset and would find it very difficult to move house, downsize or rent somewhere more affordable to income I would respectfully suggest the 2 scenarios are very different. Unless you are in negative equity I would also assume that your debt is much less than the asset you are borrowing against. We're talking about a family who own a Bank. Actually own a Bank. A succesful one at that. I think they just about know what they're doing. Don't panic. I'm not panicking mate, but I'm also not fully comfortable with our situation. Probably because I don't fully understand it. Plenty here willing to accept all is just rosy and I'm pretty sure they know just as little as I do. If something looks too good to be true, history (and in particular football) says that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I'm not doubting our owners, but I'm also not yet ready to close my eyes and fall backwards into their arms. Maybe I was let down by my father too often in my formative years.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 12, 2017 12:25:20 GMT
Additionally, when did we all start trusting bankers??
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Post by baggins on Apr 12, 2017 12:25:30 GMT
We're talking about a family who own a Bank. Actually own a Bank. A succesful one at that. I think they just about know what they're doing. Don't panic. I'm not panicking mate, but I'm also not fully comfortable with our situation. Probably because I don't fully understand it. Plenty here willing to accept all is just rosy and I'm pretty sure they know just as little as I do. If something looks too good to be true, history (and in particular football) says that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. I'm not doubting our owners, but I'm also not yet ready to close my eyes and fall backwards into their arms. Maybe I was let down by my father too often in my formative years. We'll be fine Mate.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Apr 12, 2017 12:29:14 GMT
Additionally, when did we all start trusting bankers?? 2008 comes to mind...........
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Post by knowall on Apr 12, 2017 12:31:11 GMT
Okay, so I'm going to ask you a couple of questions because I want to understand your viewpoint, so I can decide if I should take a similar stance. I am worried that the questions will seem naive, so I'd appreciate it if you could answer honestly without being condescending or anything. - Do we need to be worrying about the debt?
- If so, what is it that you think may happen and what can we as fans do about it?
1. Quite clearly any debt is worse than no debt. The Club's debt is still rising and we only have one asset (the ground) and the accounts quite clearly state that Mr H Al Qadi is guaranteeing a line of credit for 12 months. If there is no progress on UWE after 12 months & the likelihood that those debts will have continued rising what happens if that line of credit disappears? Essentially the Club will have to sell or mortgage the ground to repay the credit facility, leaving the club with effectively no assets. Admittedly that is a worse case scenario but not necessairily unthinkable as the Al Qadi's (I'm sure) will be protecting their investment even if that means the Club folds. 2. Sorry answered first part of the next question above as it was relevant I think to question 1. As to the second part probably not a lot but we can arm ourselves with FACTS (as per the accounts) rather than burying our heads in the sand pretending there is some mythical Jordanian money tree paying for everything & believing rumour and half truths (SH has peddled one of those in his statement to the accounts). Talk about half full/half empty glass - sounds like there is never anything in your glass - it is always empty! - lighten up mate - lending and borrowing helps the world go round
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Post by baggins on Apr 12, 2017 12:31:31 GMT
Additionally, when did we all start trusting bankers?? When they don't prop up the Tories.
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