|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 31, 2018 11:43:03 GMT
I also know that 1 other group of businessman who are fans have approached with the same idea and got rebuffed with apparent no need for outside investment. Perhaps the "group of businessmen" didn't offer enough - everything has a price. I really can't see the owners spending significant amounts of money on the club - hence no apparent need for "outside investment". IMO they are waiting for the right offer to come along to get themselves out of the mess they've found themselves in. But the longer they dither and rack up losses the bigger that right offer needs to be. And if that is the case then they are looking for outside investment and the Chairman is lying to fans.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 31, 2018 10:28:34 GMT
As you know full well from the other forum Vaughan approached SH with a plan for fan led equity investment and was told unequivocally that the owners were not looking for investment. So either we know that is a fact or the Chairman has openly taken to lying to fans. It's one or the other isn't it? Not looking for investment because they don't want to do anything, or because they have access to it already?
It's hard to know which way the wind blows and what the arguments are on any given day
Hani simultaneously hates football and want's out, at the same time as spending too much as he is the evil overlord or financially incompetent
It is indeed hard to no which way the wind blows but which ever way it blows the board can rely on you to back them. The Chairman has said there don't want investment so hey if you believe they will rebuild the mem or build elsewhere then you must believe they have finance or investment lined up. It's the bit about believing they will build something that is harder to believe everyday for many fans. Perhaps we'll see a small start along those lines with the Colony, a non controversial development that essentially has already been approved as a sports complex. Anyone seen the mystical planning application yet?
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 31, 2018 8:29:37 GMT
When you posted yesterday on communication about season tickets, new family stand, pitch relaying, contract extensions, new signings etc you were right but to be fair we had that kind of communication under the previous ownership. What nobby is talking about is communication about the bigger picture which Wael promised last December he would improve. The response of "we will communicate when we have something to say" was used by the previous regime and all those who accepted it as being valid were left speechless when they found out the only thing that had been happening behind the scenes was panic and that Rovers had actually come within "minutes of bankruptcy". With the experience we had after the Higgs regime stopped communicating it's not unreasonable to suspect that no communication is a bad sign. I should like to see Rovers fans discussing positive options such as getting new equity into the club or the possibility of leasing a new stadium in conjunction with property developers and local authorities rather than sitting back, crossing our fingers and hoping like we did before. how do we know that the last paragraph of yours isnt happpening behind the scenes though, much like the UWE project was developed in secrecy for a couple of years As you know full well from the other forum Vaughan approached SH with a plan for fan led equity investment and was told unequivocally that the owners were not looking for investment. So either we know that is a fact or the Chairman has openly taken to lying to fans. It's one or the other isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 10, 2018 12:29:13 GMT
Waq & Hani are not pursuing a new ground, they have been open and said the UWE deal is dead and that sometime in the future, they propose / hope to refurbish the MEM. As I understand it their business (DWAYNE SPORTS ?) bought the club / debt, making it easy to sell on. Not sure they have actually put any of their own money into club, as they rarely talk to the supporters and do not say much when they do. And as for the pitch, I am of the opinion a contractor is currently correcting the drainage, with a view to coming back in a few weeks time to undertake over-seeding. Tbh I quite like our **** ground; although, I am disappointed when I remember how Swansea City and particularly Brighton & Hove Albion were supposed to be going out of business one minute and the next thing they are both playing in the premiership in brand spanking new grounds. Unfortunately, although I hope I am proved wrong, I cannot see Waq & Hani delivering anything more than a "make do and mend" solution.
you are of the opinion, someone is sorting the drainage and they may, or may not come back to do the seeding of the pitch
What the actual..
Oh dear on the other thread you were bigging up how you only offer opinions but when someone else does..... Proves the point I made about hypocrites and Internet forums
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 10, 2018 10:28:28 GMT
There was a planning permission which we can only guess Dwane Sports and/or the football club wish to amend. So they'll need to submit some new planning application which they haven't done, of course unless you can supply evidence that they have. Of course the other view is that the current planning permission is a perfect fit for our needs and there is another reason nothing is happening there. It can't be both. Again only commenting on the available facts. PS I guess even with your alleged contacts at South Glos planning department you fail to understand the difference between a planning application and planning permission We currently have no planning applications with South Glos We currently have planning permission on the Colony Site which we would like to modify what we don't have is a training ground for next season Thank you for confirming my original comment regarding a planning application was correct. No idea on contractual arrangements for a training ground next season. Shocking mismanagement, wouldn't you say, if we don't have anything in place?
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 10, 2018 10:09:52 GMT
Come on HG you know full well that he means for the football training ground not the present one we have for a rugby club's facilities. We currently have planning permission on the Colony There was a planning permission which we can only guess Dwane Sports and/or the football club wish to amend. So they'll need to submit some new planning application which they haven't done, of course unless you can supply evidence that they have. Of course the other view is that the current planning permission is a perfect fit for our needs and there is another reason nothing is happening there. It can't be both. Again only commenting on the available facts. PS I guess even with your alleged contacts at South Glos planning department you fail to understand the difference between a planning application and planning permission
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 10, 2018 9:27:21 GMT
But why do we need posters making guesses at what they think might be happening? We've not heard from Wael or SH for months, outside of the AGM, there's already rumours the CEO is no longer joining us and there's still no signs of the plans being submitted to BCC planners. Rumours exactly and where have they emanated from?
Mr Starnes isn't due to start until 9th July.
Probably Idle chit chat from people that don't actually know anything
Strange if you have blind faith in the board you can post idle chit chat as fact and it's accepted. But post facts - charge over the ground, increasing costs, no planning application for training ground or stadium - and it's idle chit chat as you don't have blind faith in the board. The only things you can rely on in an Internet forum is idle chit chat posted as fact and hypocrisy.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 16:35:42 GMT
Why worry about other owners, presumably NG & Co? They are the past and nothing to do with the club now. The Al qadis running the club better than NH is irrelevant it's whether they are running our club better than are competitors Please read what I said. I am not worrying about past owners as they are the past. It was not a dig at anyone and not especially “NG & Co”, whoever they are. I am presuming you mean Nick Higgs, which is usually NH. I am making the point that the AlQadis in charge of BRFC are trying to improve us in the ways I mentioned and have the means to do so. Past owners did not have the means so I am more confident that these owners will be able to. With what they’ve done and the appointments made they are certainly trying to close the gap, increase turnover and income and run us as as well as, if not better, than our competitors. UTG! I have more confidence in the current owners but that confidence isn't overly high because I've yet to see much apart from rising costs. Still as always UTG
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 13:09:49 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed That is a perfectly sensible argument which I get and respect. We want to know but I don’t think we have a right to know anything though. I'd disagree the owners rely on our goodwill, passion and blind belief in return I'd expect them to offer us something. It certainly isn't the quality of the match day experience that has us battering down the gates. Though on the pitch I thoroughly enjoy DCs approach to the game but if he leaves we could be straight back to a dull pragmatist like trollope
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 13:06:10 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed County It's perfectly acceptable to ask questions but with no guarantee of answers it which will leave you even more frustrated. Any answers by other fans will be pure conjecture as with the BoD running a tighter ship than previous regimes there are no longer those who are in the know. If you have questions why don't you contact the owners direct? others seem to have got responses of sorts.... Simply because you can't see a business plan doesn't mean that there isn't one.... Regards And equality because we haven't been shown one that doesn't mean it exists. In fact if there was any tangible evidence of improved financial performance then I'd accept that as proof one does exist. However I don't see it. In the meantime the owners expect us to continue to invest money and time on trust & passion and blind belief. Which equates to the previous owners business plan. Fair point about asking directly though
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 11:54:54 GMT
Which is all well and good but the bricks and mortars improvements are still not materialising. And without that is there any real road to self sufficiency? The stadium I accept requires feasibility and funding but the training ground they are sat on the land with suitable planning permission to develop the pitches and infrastructure. So what is the hold up? Appreciate that's a question you can't answer but it is a relevant question You now full well the previous planning permission for a rugby club facilities were not suitable for a football training ground, SH said at the last AGM (were you there demanding answers to your questions?) that plans would be submitted around now, as things stand there's no real hold up, clearly if there's still no signs of plans being submitted by mid June then questions needs to be asked, the fact we're spending another small fortune on the pitch this summe and also employing a CEO & HoR hopefully means the development training ground will follow this summer. As far as the reference to Walsall made by other posters it seems there fans are far from happy with their own owners actions: www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/walsall-fc/2018/02/02/talks-between-jeff-bonser-and-walsall-fans-revealed-read-transcript-from-meeting/ Not a shareholder to ask questions at the AGM, as people continually state Bristol Rovers is Dwane Sports that actually there are other shareholders. The club may want to develop the buildings differently to the current planning permission but I'm sure that planing permission allows them to go ahead with the pitches that always require a significant amount of time to settle before using them. And not forgetting it has already been used for football. They may also need to remove a planning condition if they want to pay for us to go there. But still how long have Dwane Sports owned the land and they are still to submit a planning application. Makes you wonder how long it may take them on a contentious site like the Mem. I wonder sometimes if we might all die holding our breathe waiting for news on either site.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 10:38:53 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed Like most on here I do care about the finances of our club, it’s not only you who cares, but realise there is little any of us can do about it. We go to matches, support the club and hope we do well. I’ve said all along that I would like to see better communication about what their vision is for the club but have now realised I will not see a “clear business plan” outlined. They have talked about things in a ad hoc way and I now realise they keep things very close to their chests and do not publicise what’s going to happen. That is their way of doing things I think. I’m not worried by this as it appears to be their preferred way of working. Their actions, 5 year contract for our manager, supporting him in the transfer market which they have done (I know others may disagree), improved support staff across the club, the improvement to the pitch, small things around the stadium, appointment of key staff, Tom Gorringe, Tommy Widdrington to key positions (which most on here have said were needed) and the development squad all show a commitment to the club and speak louder than words anyway. I care deeply about this club and all parts of it but I am less worried by these owners than I have been about others. I wish they’d communicate better but I accept that they have a way of doing it. UTG! Why worry about other owners, presumably NG & Co? They are the past and nothing to do with the club now. The Al qadis running the club better than NH is irrelevant it's whether they are running our club better than are competitors
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 10:34:54 GMT
The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed And long may that continue. But no reason to demean other fans who hold a different view who can see a plan. It appears that we are building a decent scouting and youth set up which many see as a route to self sufficiency. Which is all well and good but the bricks and mortars improvements are still not materialising. And without that is there any real road to self sufficiency? The stadium I accept requires feasibility and funding but the training ground they are sat on the land with suitable planning permission to develop the pitches and infrastructure. So what is the hold up? Appreciate that's a question you can't answer but it is a relevant question
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 9, 2018 9:57:28 GMT
It's yours and everyone else's free choice to care or not care about the finances of the club you support. As you obviously don't care I'd ignore those of us that do. The worst that can happen is the club goes bust with no assets, that's not so bad is it? This, without doubt, is the worst thing about this forum. Pretending you are the only one that cares as you peddle drama-queen nonsense. It is insulting and pathetic. Please stop it, grow up and learn to debate like an adult. Many of us have concerns. Very few would stoop so low as to post like this. The recent history of football clubs shows that in the main fans don't care, or care enough to ask questions, about the finances of the club they support until it's too late and that club has gone into administration. No suggestion there that we are going into administration but as I can't see a clear business plan, to stem the losses, I'll continue asking questions about how and why the club is financed
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 6, 2018 18:15:14 GMT
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London I'm getting bored of you saying that you are the only one that cares about the club finances. It's perfectly possible for people to hold a contrary position to you but to care just as much as you. You don't have to be a miserable sod and slate the owners at every turn to care. I don't feel free to ban me if I'm not allowed to air my views on a public forum.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 17:58:01 GMT
The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn. Presume what you want. Why can't you just say how you would run the football club differently instead of always making jibes? Most people on here presume what they want. I'll repeat again that I've not done any due diligence so like you neither know the cost of the unnecessary London office or what ollie clatke earns, I was just quoting figures bandied around on this forum. Again without due diligence how can I propose how to run the club? However a sound business starting point is to control costs and maximise revenues, I see a lot of costs coming into the club and just hope there is as much focus on revenue generation.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:49:50 GMT
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London OK great so a 2 desk serviced office in London will cost roughly £1,300 per month that's £15,600 per year. So you've saved less than half an Ollie Clark. Well done, what else? The figures previously quoted on here was circa £250k. And yes I would prefer a model that has us living within in our means, if you think that's odd I can only presume you admire Jeremy corbyn.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:18:48 GMT
Peter, remember the debates about outside investment in 2011/12 ? We were in a perfect position to attract it then with planning agreed for the UWE Stadium, hardly any debt and a huge amount of equity in the Memorial Stadium even without Sainsburys. All it needed was for Nick Higgs to have had the vision to realise that outside investment was essential to drive through the project and transform the club. It was a chance to finally get away from the small town mentality and an obsession with keeping hands on control which blights so many small businesses that could otherwise grow and prosper. We tried to persuade him but didn't succeed. Now we are in a far worse position with no equity in the Mem and nothing much to offer other than our place in League 1 and that elusive quality called potential. The solution is to bring in fresh risk capital to finance the new infrastructure required and the only way I can see that happening is for Dwane Sports to turn their loan into equity and be prepared to give up their majority shareholding. Whether it comes from the Al-Qadi's or outside is one thing, but the club needs money to put itself in a position to increase revenue etc.
It's all well and good CGH say we should live within our means, but that would just see us slide down the leagues again. At least Dwane are putting money into to things to increase revenues whether it is a loan or not
Sorry hadn't seen this reply no I didn't say we should be living within our means I said we weren't living within our means, completely different statements. It was Henbury who incorrectly said we were living within in our means.
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 15:16:40 GMT
Not having signed a confidentiality agreement to do due diligence on the books no. However looking at the limited information in the public domain I know it's a fact we aren't living within our means. Appreciate that an Internet forum isn't the place to quote facts as it offends so many people. How are you getting on training that racehorse from the corner shop? are we living within our means? No, but what is your solution?
The club requires investment to make it profitable doesn't it?
As I've said previously I hope the owners are looking as closely at improving revenues as they are on increasing costs. Investment is needed in the bricks and mortar infrastructure of the club as without that and a plan employing a head of recruitment is superfluous to our needs (probably like the office in London). Hopefully I'll be cheering the owners following the announcement of a concrete stadium proposal but I won't be holding my breath based on the progress seen to date on the training ground, the big problem with UWE was not owning the freehold but Dwane Sports own the freehold on the proposed training ground and still nothing us happening there (unless I've missed a development). Think along with Swiss I'm one of few that cares about the finances of the club. To LJG for a start I wouldn't be wasting money on that office in London
|
|
|
Post by countygroundhotel on May 4, 2018 13:53:01 GMT
Glad we agree we aren't living within our means. Facts don't lue Any more thoughts on my question about what you would be doing differently? Not having signed a confidentiality agreement to do due diligence on the books no. However looking at the limited information in the public domain I know it's a fact we aren't living within our means. Appreciate that an Internet forum isn't the place to quote facts as it offends so many people. How are you getting on training that racehorse from the corner shop?
|
|