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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 16:47:10 GMT
Patience 55 years I been waiting that long enough do I qualify? When my kids misbehave, I put them on the naughty spot for 1 minute per year of their age. They know if they talk during that time, their time on the naughty spot starts again. Likewise, when a new regime starts at the club, they should get a clean sheet and your patience should start again. Its only been 18 months since Wael took over and a lot of that has been spent on UWE. Your patience of 55 years is fantastic. Don't waste all that effort now. Like buying a lottery ticket for years. Don't stop now because you know your numbers will come up next week otherwise  My patience is just 34 years. I hope I can follow your lead and not end up like some others on here who only been around for 3 seasons and is only use to success so wants everything now. We've seen it a hell of a lot worse than what we got. As a general comparison. Bristol city 1982 ltd. sports -football department. Has had Mr S. Lansdowne as owner for a number of years. How many years ? A revamped stadium came into use last season. How many years after taking over did the stadium rebuild happen ? Once you have this answer you can compare it to what the current BRFC owners achieve.
EDIT: in partial answer S.L. has been involved at Bristol City since 1996...21 years. 96/97 season they finished 5th in league one.
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Post by paulpirate on Nov 2, 2017 16:56:57 GMT
Who would of thought 'Evolution' would of been so slow?!?!?!?!?!? I still have faith in the regime because as many have said what is the alternate? The training ground will be complete, the Mem will be revamped, but these things take time. As a fanbase we have gotten way too greedy due to our amazing short term success. But this spike of success had to come to an end eventually. And lets cut to the chase, we're all annoyed and anxious of our own performance on and off the pitch because City are doing very well at the moment, that's the only reason people are up in arms, because it does seem the gap between the two clubs is getting wider unless we do something. But those frustrated with the board have to understand these things take time, previous boards have done nothing for the long term infrastructure of our club and WAQ is finally addressing those problems. But we can't expect this to be done in a matter of months this will take a long time. nothing to do with city the gap is still the same as it was last season and will be next |
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Post by countygroundhotel on Nov 2, 2017 16:58:37 GMT
You'll need to ask someone else about Wael's wealth as I have no idea. As to what I've seen a lot of backroom staff arriving, only the likes of DC will know how effective those people have been, all paid for by a loan from Dwane Sports secured against the football club's only real asset. Hence be sceptical about what any football club owner tells you. When I see that loan being repaid in the accounts then I'll see that the evolution is working and we are moving to self sufficiency. Do you think we'll see that in the next set of accounts? But keep believing after all Wael is a fan just like the last owner and where did he take us? But one company they own has secured a loan against the assets of another company they own as the first company didn't have assets to secure against and if you're looking to borrow £10m (which they in affect have albeit to then reinvest - think taking out an extended mortgage to get your house extension) then you're never gonna get that unsecured! Wael is not SL who will throw millions around and just write it off as a) it's not sensible business practice and b) it's not something he's ever said he'd do. Why not shares you ask ? A) it'll dilute their shareholding and b) you have to go through a lot of regulation in a newly more regulated environment and publish intent and gain approvals for the issue which takes time. They have done nothing with securing the investment that no one else hasn't done - think Liverpool, Man Utd etc etc. It offers protection for them, the investment and the football club so please can we stop this constant bashing of a standard accounting and business practice. The owe the money to themselves.... I fully understand the reasons for securing a loan, the fact is though if loan, or repayments can't be made, then the holder of that security can enforce the sale of the asset. You are obviously more in the know than me as I wasn't aware that Dwane Sports had borrowed the money to lend to us, though I could guess that. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 2, 2017 17:01:23 GMT
You are absolutely right, if we were in league 2 and all of this was going on there would be way more noise The fact is, we are now a mid table-bottom half league 1 team, that is enough for some to paper over the cracks we are not really progressing off the pitch where it really matters or at least we don't seem to be . Other than a few backroom staff, we have stagnated. No we haven't stagnated things are progressing maybe not as fast as we would all would have liked, but we are still here which was probably in doubt not so long ago. Has the new regime lived up to our expectation? Probably not, but in the absence of a queue of billionaires waiting to take us on we will have to hope that they can deliver eventually. That depends on individuals expectations I would suggest and those that believe/think wealthy bankers are going to chuck money around willy nilly, despite Wael clearly saying they wouldn't
The stadium is probably the biggest disappointment for many, but previous boards haven't delivered one for 30 years, so not going to get too uptight The Al-Qadi's haven't delivered one in 2
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Post by gaslife on Nov 2, 2017 17:03:58 GMT
In the time the Al-Qadis have owned BRFC, Lansdown has rebuilt Ashton Gate, invested in quality players and as a result City are competing for promotion to the Premier League.
Simultaneously, Wael has destroyed the last hope (UWE) of Rovers competing with them .. oh, and erected a small tent.
But he stands with the faithful on the terraces now and again, so he must be a good bloke.
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Post by paulpirate on Nov 2, 2017 17:06:02 GMT
As I and others have said before, almost everything the club has achieved since the new owners took control is down to DC and the players The clubs achievements are usually scored by what happens on the pitch. So yeah, that would be down to DC and the players. But I would also point out Wael's achievements. Wael recognised we were understaffed in all areas and rectified this. We now have a well staffed academy and a large 1st team backroom staff. He has created a development squad. All to benefit DC and the squad. Wael has improved the match day experience for the fans. Maybe little things for some but the little things mount up and does make a difference. Most of Wael's time has been on UWE and sounds like saved us from dodging a bullet by pulling out of the deal that Higgs previously set up. Wael could have easily went ahead with UWE's wishes to get us a stadium but it wouldn't have been a good deal in the end for us. Then he would be public enemy number 1. Thankfully he was strong enough and knows what he is doing to pull out of the deal. This decision alone to pull out could be worth more than promotion to us! Then you got the training ground plans. Also managing to keep DC at the club too with a new contract. All within 18 months and he isnt always in the country either! If we were still under Higgs, UWE wouldn't have happened anyway because we would still have the Mem to get rid of due to Sainsburys pulling out, which would have funded UWE. Higgs wouldn't have been able to get investments like Wael did. Would we have got the little upgrades around the Mem under Higgs? No. Would Higgs have allowed a bigger backroom staff so both the academy and 1st team could be properly staffed? No. Would Higgs have allowed a development squad? No. Would Higgs have purchased land to build a training ground to move us into the 21st century? No. If under Higgs, I doubt we would have kept DC. I believe were were heading for administration or worse. Now compare Higgs with what he did during his entire spell and what Wael has done in just 18 months, Wael deserves credit for what he has done. Not just simply being dismissed. how do you know wael can get the investment and that wasn’t the reason it didn’t go ahead,your just assuming like everyone else Why would uwe pull out the last minute? The only reason it didn’t go ahead is because someone pulled out on our side I assume |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 17:08:34 GMT
But one company they own has secured a loan against the assets of another company they own as the first company didn't have assets to secure against and if you're looking to borrow £10m (which they in affect have albeit to then reinvest - think taking out an extended mortgage to get your house extension) then you're never gonna get that unsecured! Wael is not SL who will throw millions around and just write it off as a) it's not sensible business practice and b) it's not something he's ever said he'd do. Why not shares you ask ? A) it'll dilute their shareholding and b) you have to go through a lot of regulation in a newly more regulated environment and publish intent and gain approvals for the issue which takes time. They have done nothing with securing the investment that no one else hasn't done - think Liverpool, Man Utd etc etc. It offers protection for them, the investment and the football club so please can we stop this constant bashing of a standard accounting and business practice. The owe the money to themselves.... I fully understand the reasons for securing a loan, the fact is though if loan, or repayments can't be made, then the holder of that security can enforce the sale of the asset. You are obviously more in the know than me as I wasn't aware that Dwane Sports had borrowed the money to lend to us, though I could guess that. Agree with you on the repayments bit but my view on risk of repayments not being made/kept up is so small/unlikely it's not worth worrying about - they run and jointly own a significant valued bank! Re loan - not itk at all but am supposing this and guessing it's from their bank. (Pure speculation but would make sense and be what I'd do in their position) Also they own Dwane Sports and the Asset it's secured against so they completely control it all and any action to take in all circumstances. Only time to be worried is if they lose faith and walk away or are driven out... |
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Post by matealotblue on Nov 2, 2017 17:08:45 GMT
In the time the Al-Qadis have owned BRFC, Lansdown has rebuilt Ashton Gate, invested in quality players and as a result City are competing for promotion to the Premier League. Simultaneously, Wael has destroyed the last hope (UWE) of Rovers competing with them .. oh, and erected a small tent. But he stands with the faithful on the terraces now and again, so he must be a good bloke. And how long was SL at BCFC before all that happened? |
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Post by paulpirate on Nov 2, 2017 17:10:32 GMT
In the time the Al-Qadis have owned BRFC, Lansdown has rebuilt Ashton Gate, invested in quality players and as a result City are competing for promotion to the Premier League. Simultaneously, Wael has destroyed the last hope (UWE) of Rovers competing with them .. oh, and erected a small tent. But he stands with the faithful on the terraces now and again, so he must be a good bloke. And how long was SL at BCFC before all that happened? hes never been shy putting his hand in his pocket mind,but they have made some money on transfers |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 2, 2017 17:11:34 GMT
As I and others have said before, almost everything the club has achieved since the new owners took control is down to DC and the players The clubs achievements are usually scored by what happens on the pitch. So yeah, that would be down to DC and the players. But I would also point out Wael's achievements. Wael recognised we were understaffed in all areas and rectified this. We now have a well staffed academy and a large 1st team backroom staff. He has created a development squad. All to benefit DC and the squad. Wael has improved the match day experience for the fans. Maybe little things for some but the little things mount up and does make a difference. Most of Wael's time has been on UWE and sounds like saved us from dodging a bullet by pulling out of the deal that Higgs previously set up. Wael could have easily went ahead with UWE's wishes to get us a stadium but it wouldn't have been a good deal in the end for us. Then he would be public enemy number 1. Thankfully he was strong enough and knows what he is doing to pull out of the deal. This decision alone to pull out could be worth more than promotion to us! Then you got the training ground plans. Also managing to keep DC at the club too with a new contract. All within 18 months and he isnt always in the country either! If we were still under Higgs, UWE wouldn't have happened anyway because we would still have the Mem to get rid of due to Sainsburys pulling out, which would have funded UWE. Higgs wouldn't have been able to get investments like Wael did. Would we have got the little upgrades around the Mem under Higgs? No. Would Higgs have allowed a bigger backroom staff so both the academy and 1st team could be properly staffed? No. Would Higgs have allowed a development squad? No. Would Higgs have purchased land to build a training ground to move us into the 21st century? No. If under Higgs, I doubt we would have kept DC. I believe were were heading for administration or worse. Now compare Higgs with what he did during his entire spell and what Wael has done in just 18 months, Wael deserves credit for what he has done. Not just simply being dismissed. NH was a local businessman made good the ALQ's own a Jordanian bank, you can't compare the two? Regardless what information do you have that there decision to pull out of the UWE was a good one for the club, could you publish it on here as the rest of us haven't a clue? The fact remains all development seems to have ground to a halt so it's impossible to know where the club is now heading, apart from being heavily laden with debt exceeding anything NH borrowed. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 2, 2017 17:21:01 GMT
In the time the Al-Qadis have owned BRFC, Lansdown has rebuilt Ashton Gate, invested in quality players and as a result City are competing for promotion to the Premier League. Simultaneously, Wael has destroyed the last hope (UWE) of Rovers competing with them .. oh, and erected a small tent. But he stands with the faithful on the terraces now and again, so he must be a good bloke. One of those has Billions of personal wealth which he can do what he wants with, and has just cashed in £190m quid of shares.
The other doesn't have that ability
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Post by matealotblue on Nov 2, 2017 17:23:10 GMT
And how long was SL at BCFC before all that happened? hes never been shy putting his hand in his pocket mind,but they have made some money on transfers Indeed. But to compare the two given their relative time in post is a bit off. Not got a clue what the answer is (and don’t care really)but to give a fair comparison you would have to look at what SL did in his first couple of years in position to what WAQ has done in his first couple of years. It is true that maybe all is not as smooth as we would like but apples and apples me thinks to be fair. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 17:30:23 GMT
You'll need to ask someone else about Wael's wealth as I have no idea. As to what I've seen a lot of backroom staff arriving, only the likes of DC will know how effective those people have been, all paid for by a loan from Dwane Sports secured against the football club's only real asset. Hence be sceptical about what any football club owner tells you. When I see that loan being repaid in the accounts then I'll see that the evolution is working and we are moving to self sufficiency. Do you think we'll see that in the next set of accounts? But keep believing after all Wael is a fan just like the last owner and where did he take us? Compare the state of us when Higgs left to the state of us now under Wael, can you not see any improvements? Evolution is working. Wael said it will be a quiet slow process. Sorry but I can smell a rat with this Dwayne sports this could be a way they get there hands on the mem to build houses etc the lands worth a fortune for that purpose they ain't got no scruples these businessmen same as the training ground if they can get planning for houses. Hope I'm wrong but just got that sneaky feeling UTG |
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Post by mjhgas on Nov 2, 2017 17:30:24 GMT
Here's to a couple more years of stagnation! Wow - people have short memories!
And Steve Lansdown has been chucking money at City long before WAQ arrived at Rovers! Crikey, he even had planning permission for a new ground turned down! You could say, that as a well run club they have put the infrastructure in place for progress (I reckon it's taken them 5-10 years). Lansdown will be carried through Bemmy High Street on the shoulders of City fans should they reach the Premier League - that's about as much as we have in common with them (the carrying of a chairman down the road, not the Premier League!). We missed our chance in the 90's when Sky Sports was invented and we weren't in a position or brave enough to try and hit the big time.
UTG.
Evolution, not revolution........................
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Post by banjoflyer on Nov 2, 2017 17:34:32 GMT
So the question is.....who would you prefer the club to owe the money to........Dwane or the Wonga mob, which by the way was at 14% plus per yer.
I know which I would prefer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 17:46:46 GMT
So the question is.....who would you prefer the club to owe the money to........Dwane or the Wonga mob, which by the way was at 14% plus per yer. I know which I would prefer. The lesser of the two Evils! |
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Post by Big Jock on Nov 2, 2017 17:52:36 GMT
A cannae go skat man, i was asking a bird once what her limits n stuff were just probing a bit to see what I'd get away with n she said, "I've no limits, last week a guy got me to sh** in his hand" safe to say I chuffking bottled it with that nutter  A few years ago i'd have had her down as a keeper |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 17:56:40 GMT
When my kids misbehave, I put them on the naughty spot for 1 minute per year of their age. They know if they talk during that time, their time on the naughty spot starts again. Likewise, when a new regime starts at the club, they should get a clean sheet and your patience should start again. Its only been 18 months since Wael took over and a lot of that has been spent on UWE. Your patience of 55 years is fantastic. Don't waste all that effort now. Like buying a lottery ticket for years. Don't stop now because you know your numbers will come up next week otherwise My patience is just 34 years. I hope I can follow your lead and not end up like some others on here who only been around for 3 seasons and is only use to success so wants everything now. We've seen it a hell of a lot worse than what we got. As a general comparison. Bristol city 1982 ltd. sports -football department. Has had Mr S. Lansdowne as owner for a number of years. How many years ? A revamped stadium came into use last season. How many years after taking over did the stadium rebuild happen ? Once you have this answer you can compare it to what the current BRFC owners achieve.
EDIT: in partial answer S.L. has been involved at Bristol City since 1996...21 years. 96/97 season they finished 5th in league one.
That is no comparison at all as City haven’t needed a new/revamped stadium just to survive unlike Rovers. If they did Lansdown n would have built one years ago. Out of his small change pot. Any comparison with City holds no water as far as the two owners are concerned. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 18:04:14 GMT
Why did the ALQ's buy the club - fairly simple question - appears to me as Investment Bankers they saw it as a sound investment (at the time) for a number of reasons which have been well discussed . For some unknown reasons (despite the original poster apparently seeming to know) the UWE deal floundered - and it may well not have been for the reasons he was suggesting. I would suggest one of the big attractions to the club in the first place was having planning approval in place for a new stadium and the club was a relatively 'cheap' buy and probably seen at the time as a fairly low risk purchase with excellent potential. There has been a huge ground shift from the original position - resulting in delay upon delay on any project involving significant capital spend - in just a few months time the family will have been here two years - has my match day experience improved as the OP suggests - frankly not one iota.
Let's not get away from the fact that our owners are Investment Bankers and not a charity -.Wael will not be making any big decisions in isolation - and the family ultimately will have to provide a strong business case to generate loans either from their 'own' banking sources or from other financial institutions. IMO there has to be a 'bigger picture' which none of us (quite rightly) are aware of . Whoever provides the capital (iF) they will want protection and a significant return on their investment - that's the business they're in.
The OP continually mentions Wael and what he is doing - this is not a fun project to keep Wael happy - it's a long term business venture involving the whole family and £1O's millions with significant risk now - where the return on investment is coming from - on the face of it I cannot visualise. Like some on here who have mentioned their time supporting BRFC - mine is well over 60 years and that's why I remain sceptical.
Most of the family (and I will include The Chairman ( I firmly believe you can only really support one club) are businessmen trying to make money - and we all know where the big money is - and that's light years away from where we are.
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Post by paulpirate on Nov 2, 2017 18:10:21 GMT
Here's to a couple more years of stagnation! Wow - people have short memories! And Steve Lansdown has been chucking money at City long before WAQ arrived at Rovers! Crikey, he even had planning permission for a new ground turned down! You could say, that as a well run club they have put the infrastructure in place for progress (I reckon it's taken them 5-10 years). Lansdown will be carried through Bemmy High Street on the shoulders of City fans should they reach the Premier League - that's about as much as we have in common with them (the carrying of a chairman down the road, not the Premier League!). We missed our chance in the 90's when Sky Sports was invented and we weren't in a position or brave enough to try and hit the big time. UTG. Evolution, not revolution........................ 90s yeah like Blackburn |
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