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Post by paulpirate on Nov 2, 2017 19:31:25 GMT
Exactly. So we can all try and get along and try and be positive or we can all bicker and try to be negative. The way I see it Wael is not guilty until proven otherwise. So some should get off his back and support the stuff he has done to improve us. Some things said about Wael, based on just opinions and not fact, is out of order. im not falling out with anyone,nobody would be watered off if we weren’t the 4th richest club in England and not a lot happening I got nothing against wael but until he puts some of his own money in the club(he may have done already) I don’t believe until plans are made for ground and colony All I can see is some bs excuse coming up like always,sorry to be negative |
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Post by cj on Nov 2, 2017 20:00:57 GMT
Why did the ALQ's buy the club - fairly simple question - appears to me as Investment Bankers they saw it as a sound investment (at the time) for a number of reasons which have been well discussed . For some unknown reasons ( despite the original poster apparently seeming to know) the UWE deal floundered - and it may well not have been for the reasons he was suggesting. I would suggest one of the big attractions to the club in the first place was having planning approval in place for a new stadium and the club was a relatively 'cheap' buy and probably seen at the time as a fairly low risk purchase with excellent potential. There has been a huge ground shift from the original position - resulting in delay upon delay on any project involving significant capital spend - in just a few months time the family will have been here two years - has my match day experience improved as the OP suggests - frankly not one iota.Let's not get away from the fact that our owners are Investment Bankers and not a charity -.Wael will not be making any big decisions in isolation - and the family ultimately will have to provide a strong business case to generate loans either from their 'own' banking sources or from other financial institutions. IMO there has to be a 'bigger picture' which none of us (quite rightly) are aware of . Whoever provides the capital (iF) they will want protection and a significant return on their investment - that's the business they're in. The OP continually mentions Wael and what he is doing - this is not a fun project to keep Wael happy - it's a long term business venture involving the whole family and £1O's millions with significant risk now - where the return on investment is coming from - on the face of it I cannot visualise. Like some on here who have mentioned their time supporting BRFC - mine is well over 60 years and that's why I remain sceptical. Most of the family (and I will include The Chairman ( I firmly believe you can only really support one club) are businessmen trying to make money - and we all know where the big money is - and that's light years away from where we are. Your little digs at me are pretty sad really. I have obviously upset you in some way. I don't know where did you get that idea from that I apparently seem to know why the UWE deal floundered? Was that statement by you regarding myself really needed in your comment? No. Just a little dig from yourself. I wasn't present at the meetings between the 2 parties. I don't know Wael. I don't know anyone who would know what really happened. I don't have a source that some on here claim to have. I haven't made out that I do know anything as a fact. What I have made clear is that I can only go by club statements and in this case UWE's statement too. I have only said on this thread as well as the other thread what was actually said by both the club statement and from UWE. Its then down to individuals if you believe the club or not. As for your comment and dig at me mentioning the match day experience being improved, you know full well what I meant. Several facilities have been upgraded at the Mem to help improve your match day experience. If you not used the facilities then fine. But if you compare what was at the Mem before Higgs left and what is there now, if you think there hasn't been improvements then you are deluded. Then moving on to your next dig at me continually mentioning Wael, you do realise the thread is about Wael. What else would I be talking about? And regarding what he is doing is in response to those on here claiming Wael has done nothing since he joined and claimed he has no funds when clearly what he has done in the background proves otherwise. What your comment shows is a lack of class and respect. Going for someone trying to belittle them just make you a keyboard warrior and that fact you are 60+ makes it a bit embarrassing for you. You have just taken my comments, twisted them for your own agenda while knowing full well what I have previously meant. There is no reasoning with people like yourself. |
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Post by cj on Nov 2, 2017 20:13:47 GMT
Compare the state of us when Higgs left to the state of us now under Wael, can you not see any improvements? Evolution is working. Wael said it will be a quiet slow process. NH left us around £6/7m in debt with most of the money owed to people in the Bristol area bar the wonga loan, now we're £10m in debt to a company based in Jersey/owed by Jordanians, am I missing something but what's the improvements? As far as the Development Squad if the ALQ's sold up I assume that would be disbanded just as quick as it was formed to save on costs, so bar a bit of tarting up of the Mem we're virtually the same club the ALQ's purchased, although we've lost Yatesy and the snake and Monty along the way and none of them seem to have been replaced. Correct me if I am wrong but the debt under Higgs was owed to others. The debt under Wael is owed back to Wael? As for the rest it, I aint going around in circles repeating myself. Its a shame you feel the way you do about what Wael and what has actually done to date. That is your choice. I appreciate what he has done for us anyway. Which is my choice. Good evening to you sir. |
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Post by cj on Nov 2, 2017 20:32:56 GMT
Exactly. So we can all try and get along and try and be positive or we can all bicker and try to be negative. The way I see it Wael is not guilty until proven otherwise. So some should get off his back and support the stuff he has done to improve us. Some things said about Wael, based on just opinions and not fact, is out of order. Are you wael's solicitor ? No. If I was, I would be rich now as I would be making him sue a fair few for slander and defamation!  I was just a reader of the forum for a while and got pretty fed up of all the Wael bashing and I just had enough of it so I joined up to have a say to try and reason with people. I know its just a forum and people have the right to express their opinion and I respect peoples opinions, even if I disagree with it. Its been nice today having a debate with some people about it without it going OTT and getting personal (apart from one!). I even had 1 messages today who I have been debating with, thanking me for being respectful towards them and that he hadn't previously seen things from my point of view before and is now less sceptical of the owners. I wasn't expecting that so that was pretty nice. I am not expecting to change peoples opinions. I just want to get stuff off my chest as fed up with the constant bashing towards Wael when clearly some of those doing the bashing is basing it purely on being impatient, hence me saying a few times what Wael has already done and what he has said many times about its a slow process as evolution on revolution. Anyway, good evening to you sir. ps.. if you need a solicitor, ask Wael for my details  |
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Post by cj on Nov 2, 2017 20:39:33 GMT
Exactly. So we can all try and get along and try and be positive or we can all bicker and try to be negative. The way I see it Wael is not guilty until proven otherwise. So some should get off his back and support the stuff he has done to improve us. Some things said about Wael, based on just opinions and not fact, is out of order. im not falling out with anyone,nobody would be watered off if we weren’t the 4th richest club in England and not a lot happening I got nothing against wael but until he puts some of his own money in the club(he may have done already) I don’t believe until plans are made for ground and colony All I can see is some bs excuse coming up like always,sorry to be negative I aint saying you are falling out with anyone. My comment wasn't aimed at you personally. It was aimed at everyone. We can all try and get along and try and be positive or all bicker amongst ourselves being negative based on nothing because like you said previously, no one really knows the real story, so why are people getting all uptight about it and some even go to the lengths of spreading rumours stirring things! Of course you and anyone are entitled to be negative. I just struggle to understand why. Which is an opinion what I am entitled to have. |
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Post by aghast on Nov 2, 2017 21:22:31 GMT
Exactly. So we can all try and get along and try and be positive or we can all bicker and try to be negative. The way I see it Wael is not guilty until proven otherwise. So some should get off his back and support the stuff he has done to improve us. Some things said about Wael, based on just opinions and not fact, is out of order. The original (unmerged) thread asked if we still had faith in the new owners, not if we knew unchallengeable facts about the current situation. So in the normal way of a forum, people responded with with their opinions about why they did or didn't have faith. I think most of the responses, positive or negative, have been reasonable debate. I can't see the value in a forum which adopts an attitude that we shouldn't comment on anything unless it's supportive of the owners. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 21:39:48 GMT
Why did the ALQ's buy the club - fairly simple question - appears to me as Investment Bankers they saw it as a sound investment (at the time) for a number of reasons which have been well discussed . For some unknown reasons ( despite the original poster apparently seeming to know) the UWE deal floundered - and it may well not have been for the reasons he was suggesting. I would suggest one of the big attractions to the club in the first place was having planning approval in place for a new stadium and the club was a relatively 'cheap' buy and probably seen at the time as a fairly low risk purchase with excellent potential. There has been a huge ground shift from the original position - resulting in delay upon delay on any project involving significant capital spend - in just a few months time the family will have been here two years - has my match day experience improved as the OP suggests - frankly not one iota.Let's not get away from the fact that our owners are Investment Bankers and not a charity -.Wael will not be making any big decisions in isolation - and the family ultimately will have to provide a strong business case to generate loans either from their 'own' banking sources or from other financial institutions. IMO there has to be a 'bigger picture' which none of us (quite rightly) are aware of . Whoever provides the capital (iF) they will want protection and a significant return on their investment - that's the business they're in. The OP continually mentions Wael and what he is doing - this is not a fun project to keep Wael happy - it's a long term business venture involving the whole family and £1O's millions with significant risk now - where the return on investment is coming from - on the face of it I cannot visualise. Like some on here who have mentioned their time supporting BRFC - mine is well over 60 years and that's why I remain sceptical. Most of the family (and I will include The Chairman ( I firmly believe you can only really support one club) are businessmen trying to make money - and we all know where the big money is - and that's light years away from where we are. Your little digs at me are pretty sad really. I have obviously upset you in some way. I don't know where did you get that idea from that I apparently seem to know why the UWE deal floundered? Was that statement by you regarding myself really needed in your comment? No. Just a little dig from yourself. I wasn't present at the meetings between the 2 parties. I don't know Wael. I don't know anyone who would know what really happened. I don't have a source that some on here claim to have. I haven't made out that I do know anything as a fact. What I have made clear is that I can only go by club statements and in this case UWE's statement too. I have only said on this thread as well as the other thread what was actually said by both the club statement and from UWE. Its then down to individuals if you believe the club or not. As for your comment and dig at me mentioning the match day experience being improved, you know full well what I meant. Several facilities have been upgraded at the Mem to help improve your match day experience. If you not used the facilities then fine. But if you compare what was at the Mem before Higgs left and what is there now, if you think there hasn't been improvements then you are deluded. Then moving on to your next dig at me continually mentioning Wael, you do realise the thread is about Wael. What else would I be talking about? And regarding what he is doing is in response to those on here claiming Wael has done nothing since he joined and claimed he has no funds when clearly what he has done in the background proves otherwise. What your comment shows is a lack of class and respect. Going for someone trying to belittle them just make you a keyboard warrior and that fact you are 60+ makes it a bit embarrassing for you. You have just taken my comments, twisted them for your own agenda while knowing full well what I have previously meant. There is no reasoning with people like yourself. Questions for the Mods: i thought i made a reasonable posting - of course not everyone will agree with it but did it come over that I'm a "keyboard warrior" "belittling" the OP - "I lack class and respect" I'm "embarrassing" and "there is no reasoning with people like myself". The posting was actually not aimed at him in anyway personally. I'm happy to reply to the original but if you feel I've been out of order I will let it go. |
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Post by gregsy on Nov 2, 2017 21:47:29 GMT
Your little digs at me are pretty sad really. I have obviously upset you in some way. I don't know where did you get that idea from that I apparently seem to know why the UWE deal floundered? Was that statement by you regarding myself really needed in your comment? No. Just a little dig from yourself. I wasn't present at the meetings between the 2 parties. I don't know Wael. I don't know anyone who would know what really happened. I don't have a source that some on here claim to have. I haven't made out that I do know anything as a fact. What I have made clear is that I can only go by club statements and in this case UWE's statement too. I have only said on this thread as well as the other thread what was actually said by both the club statement and from UWE. Its then down to individuals if you believe the club or not. As for your comment and dig at me mentioning the match day experience being improved, you know full well what I meant. Several facilities have been upgraded at the Mem to help improve your match day experience. If you not used the facilities then fine. But if you compare what was at the Mem before Higgs left and what is there now, if you think there hasn't been improvements then you are deluded. Then moving on to your next dig at me continually mentioning Wael, you do realise the thread is about Wael. What else would I be talking about? And regarding what he is doing is in response to those on here claiming Wael has done nothing since he joined and claimed he has no funds when clearly what he has done in the background proves otherwise. What your comment shows is a lack of class and respect. Going for someone trying to belittle them just make you a keyboard warrior and that fact you are 60+ makes it a bit embarrassing for you. You have just taken my comments, twisted them for your own agenda while knowing full well what I have previously meant. There is no reasoning with people like yourself. Questions for the Mods: i thought i made a reasonable posting - of course not everyone will agree with it but did it come over that I'm a "keyboard warrior" "belittling" the OP - "I lack class and respect" I'm "embarrassing" and "there is no reasoning with people like myself". The posting was actually not aimed at him in anyway personally. I'm happy to reply to the original but if you feel I've been out of order I will let it go. Nothing has been removed.... All that's been done is similar threads have been merged together.... I apologize if this has caused an inconvenience, but we are trying to keep the forum as accessible for both regular and casual users as possible..... |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 2, 2017 21:48:46 GMT
Your little digs at me are pretty sad really. I have obviously upset you in some way. I don't know where did you get that idea from that I apparently seem to know why the UWE deal floundered? Was that statement by you regarding myself really needed in your comment? No. Just a little dig from yourself. I wasn't present at the meetings between the 2 parties. I don't know Wael. I don't know anyone who would know what really happened. I don't have a source that some on here claim to have. I haven't made out that I do know anything as a fact. What I have made clear is that I can only go by club statements and in this case UWE's statement too. I have only said on this thread as well as the other thread what was actually said by both the club statement and from UWE. Its then down to individuals if you believe the club or not. As for your comment and dig at me mentioning the match day experience being improved, you know full well what I meant. Several facilities have been upgraded at the Mem to help improve your match day experience. If you not used the facilities then fine. But if you compare what was at the Mem before Higgs left and what is there now, if you think there hasn't been improvements then you are deluded. Then moving on to your next dig at me continually mentioning Wael, you do realise the thread is about Wael. What else would I be talking about? And regarding what he is doing is in response to those on here claiming Wael has done nothing since he joined and claimed he has no funds when clearly what he has done in the background proves otherwise. What your comment shows is a lack of class and respect. Going for someone trying to belittle them just make you a keyboard warrior and that fact you are 60+ makes it a bit embarrassing for you. You have just taken my comments, twisted them for your own agenda while knowing full well what I have previously meant. There is no reasoning with people like yourself. Questions for the Mods: i thought i made a reasonable posting - of course not everyone will agree with it but did it come over that I'm a "keyboard warrior" "belittling" the OP - "I lack class and respect" I'm "embarrassing" and "there is no reasoning with people like myself". The posting was actually not aimed at him in anyway personally. I'm happy to reply to the original but if you feel I've been out of order I will let it go. Didn't think your post quoted above was out of order to be honest. I'd let it go. We are all arguing again and over what? So few people know what's going on its laughable. |
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Nov 2, 2017 22:06:57 GMT
Questions for the Mods: i thought i made a reasonable posting - of course not everyone will agree with it but did it come over that I'm a "keyboard warrior" "belittling" the OP - "I lack class and respect" I'm "embarrassing" and "there is no reasoning with people like myself". The posting was actually not aimed at him in anyway personally. I'm happy to reply to the original but if you feel I've been out of order I will let it go. Didn't think your post quoted above was out of order to be honest. I'd let it go. We are all arguing again and over what? So few people know what's going on its laughable. I have no idea what's going on or what this thread is about |
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Nov 2, 2017 22:11:04 GMT
Are you wael's solicitor ? No. If I was, I would be rich now as I would be making him sue a fair few for slander and defamation! I was just a reader of the forum for a while and got pretty fed up of all the Wael bashing and I just had enough of it so I joined up to have a say to try and reason with people. I know its just a forum and people have the right to express their opinion and I respect peoples opinions, even if I disagree with it. Its been nice today having a debate with some people about it without it going OTT and getting personal (apart from one!). I even had 1 messages today who I have been debating with, thanking me for being respectful towards them and that he hadn't previously seen things from my point of view before and is now less sceptical of the owners. I wasn't expecting that so that was pretty nice. I am not expecting to change peoples opinions. I just want to get stuff off my chest as fed up with the constant bashing towards Wael when clearly some of those doing the bashing is basing it purely on being impatient, hence me saying a few times what Wael has already done and what he has said many times about its a slow process as evolution on revolution. Anyway, good evening to you sir. ps.. if you need a solicitor, ask Wael for my details No win no fee ? I was walking along and slipped.... can you help ? |
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Post by piratesquarters on Nov 2, 2017 22:13:26 GMT
I'd just like to thank the Mods, for making me read all the carp that I'd already read, before the threads were merged.  My take on the subject is I find it odd that some posters are undermining the current owners. Natural cynicism is one thing but I find some of it highly suspicious. Only my opinion of course.  |
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Post by Henbury Gas on Nov 3, 2017 6:29:25 GMT
Why did the ALQ's buy the club - fairly simple question - appears to me as Investment Bankers they saw it as a sound investment (at the time) for a number of reasons which have been well discussed . For some unknown reasons ( despite the original poster apparently seeming to know) the UWE deal floundered - and it may well not have been for the reasons he was suggesting. I would suggest one of the big attractions to the club in the first place was having planning approval in place for a new stadium and the club was a relatively 'cheap' buy and probably seen at the time as a fairly low risk purchase with excellent potential. There has been a huge ground shift from the original position - resulting in delay upon delay on any project involving significant capital spend - in just a few months time the family will have been here two years - has my match day experience improved as the OP suggests - frankly not one iota.Let's not get away from the fact that our owners are Investment Bankers and not a charity -.Wael will not be making any big decisions in isolation - and the family ultimately will have to provide a strong business case to generate loans either from their 'own' banking sources or from other financial institutions. IMO there has to be a 'bigger picture' which none of us (quite rightly) are aware of . Whoever provides the capital (iF) they will want protection and a significant return on their investment - that's the business they're in. The OP continually mentions Wael and what he is doing - this is not a fun project to keep Wael happy - it's a long term business venture involving the whole family and £1O's millions with significant risk now - where the return on investment is coming from - on the face of it I cannot visualise. Like some on here who have mentioned their time supporting BRFC - mine is well over 60 years and that's why I remain sceptical. Most of the family (and I will include The Chairman ( I firmly believe you can only really support one club) are businessmen trying to make money - and we all know where the big money is - and that's light years away from where we are. Your little digs at me are pretty sad really. I have obviously upset you in some way. I don't know where did you get that idea from that I apparently seem to know why the UWE deal floundered? Was that statement by you regarding myself really needed in your comment? No. Just a little dig from yourself. I wasn't present at the meetings between the 2 parties. I don't know Wael. I don't know anyone who would know what really happened. I don't have a source that some on here claim to have. I haven't made out that I do know anything as a fact. What I have made clear is that I can only go by club statements and in this case UWE's statement too. I have only said on this thread as well as the other thread what was actually said by both the club statement and from UWE. Its then down to individuals if you believe the club or not. As for your comment and dig at me mentioning the match day experience being improved, you know full well what I meant. Several facilities have been upgraded at the Mem to help improve your match day experience. If you not used the facilities then fine. But if you compare what was at the Mem before Higgs left and what is there now, if you think there hasn't been improvements then you are deluded. Then moving on to your next dig at me continually mentioning Wael, you do realise the thread is about Wael. What else would I be talking about? And regarding what he is doing is in response to those on here claiming Wael has done nothing since he joined and claimed he has no funds when clearly what he has done in the background proves otherwise. What your comment shows is a lack of class and respect. Going for someone trying to belittle them just make you a keyboard warrior and that fact you are 60+ makes it a bit embarrassing for you. You have just taken my comments, twisted them for your own agenda while knowing full well what I have previously meant. There is no reasoning with people like yourself. You do have to wonder if these people have Red blood in their veins and not blue and white |
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Post by simon1883 on Nov 3, 2017 7:42:43 GMT
Maybe it has something to do with the amount of bills stacking up unpaid, including the company who put up the fencing at the new training ground who have now instigated legal proceedings, also members of staff being paid late. But hey, let's all keep pretending the new owners are gods shall we. That's some strong accusations to make, can you back that up as I've not seen that suggested anywhere else on the forums? And it’s correct! |
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Post by simon1883 on Nov 3, 2017 7:51:11 GMT
£45k, no disputes raised, no replies to demands, writ being issued. So assuming I take you at face value the only fact is that we haven't paid for a fence? But we've only your word on that. I dont do pie in the sky bullshit, but this is correct. We have not paid for the fence and have offered to clear the debt over the 15months. |
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Post by garystash on Nov 3, 2017 7:57:55 GMT
FWIW, here is my take on the current ownership.
The one major mistake that we made in our history was selling Eastville. Maybe it saved the club at the time, but that meant life has been a constant struggle for BRFC. It's why we have always been ragbag.
Currently, there appears to be stuff happenning - development squad, backroom staff, bought a field, small Mem improvements, sprinklers (lol) etc.
However, it is all being financed by a loan secured against our only asset. In other words - we seem to be risking our ground to make these improvements.
Those of us that were watching rovers in the eighties - when we were forced to leave our true home at Eastville - feel naturally agitated by this.
It was a long road back to eventually owning our own ground, and here we are risking it again.
When our borrowing exceeds the value of the Mem what will happen? Will history repeat itself and we will be forced to sell again? That depends if the Al-Qadi's put their hand in their pockets.
We had hoped that the Al-Qadi family would invest their own money. That's how we've seen other clubs grow. It does not appear that is happening though.
What it appears we are trying to do is raise capital against what we have. Then invest that capital in order to grow.
For projects like the training ground and the regeneration - outside investement will probably be sought. People outside the club will get a generous slice of those pies.
Will this plan work? I don't know. Will it take a long time? Longer than many of us have.
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Post by simon1883 on Nov 3, 2017 8:01:29 GMT
It was common knowledge that GD was charging Rovers for hotel stays for players at the beeches who were on loan or were transferred in and had no where to stay, use of the facilities for training etc. Another director found out and called him out on it. All of a sudden the club weren't at the beeches anymore...and players stopped staying there.. Allegedly... I remember getting banned from the original rovers forum for suggesting such a thing..... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 8:02:58 GMT
So assuming I take you at face value the only fact is that we haven't paid for a fence? But we've only your word on that. I dont do pie in the sky bullshit, but this is correct. We have not paid for the fence and have offered to clear the debt over the 15months. Could your clarify what " offered to clear the debt over the 15 months" means. What 15 months? |
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Post by gasincider on Nov 3, 2017 8:05:06 GMT
My take is that it is correct that we owed monies on the fence etc. It's also my opinion that the family want out (not Wael) and that this will hopefully happen quickly, before we lose the UWE option forever.
Once the UWE has gone, none of us around now will ever see us play in a decent stadium of our own. The training ground and the Mem redevelopment are pie in the sky.
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Post by peterparker on Nov 3, 2017 8:09:32 GMT
NH left us around £6/7m in debt with most of the money owed to people in the Bristol area bar the wonga loan, now we're £10m in debt to a company based in Jersey/owed by Jordanians, am I missing something but what's the improvements? As far as the Development Squad if the ALQ's sold up I assume that would be disbanded just as quick as it was formed to save on costs, so bar a bit of tarting up of the Mem we're virtually the same club the ALQ's purchased, although we've lost Yatesy and the snake and Monty along the way and none of them seem to have been replaced. Correct me if I am wrong but the debt under Higgs was owed to others. The debt under Wael is owed back to Wael? As for the rest it, I aint going around in circles repeating myself. Its a shame you feel the way you do about what Wael and what has actually done to date. That is your choice. I appreciate what he has done for us anyway. Which is my choice. Good evening to you sir. There have been various outside loans over the years.
Towards the end of NH's tenure I think outside of preferential shareholders (which helped to purchase the stadium) I think the only external debt was the bank and everything else was owed to the directors
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