|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 21, 2018 14:22:39 GMT
The thing is though surely that would go against everything that's right and proper i can see what your getting at but it would be wrong on so many levels and a pish take to voters. I think i'm correct in saying not one socialist government has ever worked anywhere in the world, (some will predictably name a few Scandinavian countries, but behind the smokescreen those countries are bankrupt). The only socialism that seems to work is when its mixed with a bit of capitalism even then is a bit flaky. the ideal is in the middle,but theres no=one who can fill that gap there will never be one in this country, lets face it politics in this country has always been a two legged pony. I'm surprised a lot of older labour supporters haven't switch to the greens as their manifest from a few years back would have had die hard labour supporters creaming their pants. Lib/Dems they fell out of favour with me years ago when one of their policies was to try and ban angling, the biggest precipitation sports in this country. No party speaks to me either i tend to vote on the most stable option at that time Capitalism hasn't worked either. It just takes longer to fail. I agree that the 8 year thing isn't and should not be enforceable, but is just an ideal in my own head. Well there's plenty of room. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 19:35:31 GMT
I did but your answer did not relate to that. I don't understand your response. Tell me why and I can explain what I meant. Hello anybody there? |
|
|
|
Post by aghast on Jan 21, 2018 20:19:06 GMT
I don't understand your response. Tell me why and I can explain what I meant. Hello anybody there? You said you knew what I meant, a few posts back, and said there was no need to explain. So I didn't. Anyway, having dipped my toe in the murky waters of politics on a football forum yet again, I'm getting out. It always ends in a row and I can't be arsed with it. Until the next time. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 20:44:48 GMT
You said you knew what I meant, a few posts back, and said there was no need to explain. So I didn't. Anyway, having dipped my toe in the murky waters of politics on a football forum yet again, I'm getting out. It always ends in a row and I can't be arsed with it. Until the next time. And there was me thinking you were going to be a man of your word and admit you were trying for a typical cheap shot. There won’t be a next time. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 22, 2018 9:04:17 GMT
You said you knew what I meant, a few posts back, and said there was no need to explain. So I didn't. Anyway, having dipped my toe in the murky waters of politics on a football forum yet again, I'm getting out. It always ends in a row and I can't be arsed with it. Until the next time. And there was me thinking you were going to be a man of your word and admit you were trying for a typical cheap shot. There won’t be a next time. Out of interest, what figures do you attribute to; Numbers of EU citizens arriving (net numbers will do) How many of these are the "dregs" Also, did you have a typo regarding the amount we are paying France? |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 22, 2018 9:10:14 GMT
Trade Unions were given legal status under the Gladstone Liberal Government, the initial State Pensions and unemployment benefits under Liberals Asquith and Lloyd George. The NHS was the successor to the Beveridge Report, written by a Liberal Peer and economist.
Anyone spot the connection?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2018 10:52:10 GMT
And 8 years Tory rule has achieved what exactly? Bugger all Baggins , bugger all that’s what. This country will never recover from the Blair and Brown years and not even Jeremy ‘ you won’t pay tuition fees under me’ Corbyn will right their wrongs with his new modern army. The cost of tuition actually drives up immigration in some instances. When I became a nurse and I trained during a Labour government funded NHS bursury scheme. If not for that me and most of my cohort could not have afforded to study. When the Tories got in, they immediately cut that funding and as a result the number of health care students dropped to the point where there is now a crisis because there is a massive skills gap. Local health authorities are actively recruiting overseas at great expense because we no longer produce our own nurses, phsyios, social workers etc. The solution to this as we saw a couple of weeks ago is to just shut down wards. I fully accept however that an overfunded and poorly regulated and mismanaged NHS is also an issue. As I have constantly said, it's all about balance and tuition fees is a very misunderstood issue as you have clearly demonstrated. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 22, 2018 13:05:05 GMT
Bugger all Baggins , bugger all that’s what. This country will never recover from the Blair and Brown years and not even Jeremy ‘ you won’t pay tuition fees under me’ Corbyn will right their wrongs with his new modern army. The cost of tuition actually drives up immigration in some instances. When I became a nurse and I trained during a Labour government funded NHS bursury scheme. If not for that me and most of my cohort could not have afforded to study. When the Tories got in, they immediately cut that funding and as a result the number of health care students dropped to the point where there is now a crisis because there is a massive skills gap. Local health authorities are actively recruiting overseas at great expense because we no longer produce our own nurses, phsyios, social workers etc. The solution to this as we saw a couple of weeks ago is to just shut down wards. I fully accept however that an overfunded and poorly regulated and mismanaged NHS is also an issue. As I have constantly said, it's all about balance and tuition fees is a very misunderstood issue as you have clearly demonstrated. I've long felt that if a student works in the public sector for say 3-5 years after graduating, such as a teacher, nurse or doctor, then their loans should be removed. It would be proportional if they leave earlier and make up for the lower starting salaries compared to private companies. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 23, 2018 12:15:56 GMT
The cost of tuition actually drives up immigration in some instances. When I became a nurse and I trained during a Labour government funded NHS bursury scheme. If not for that me and most of my cohort could not have afforded to study. When the Tories got in, they immediately cut that funding and as a result the number of health care students dropped to the point where there is now a crisis because there is a massive skills gap. Local health authorities are actively recruiting overseas at great expense because we no longer produce our own nurses, phsyios, social workers etc. The solution to this as we saw a couple of weeks ago is to just shut down wards. I fully accept however that an overfunded and poorly regulated and mismanaged NHS is also an issue. As I have constantly said, it's all about balance and tuition fees is a very misunderstood issue as you have clearly demonstrated. I've long felt that if a student works in the public sector for say 3-5 years after graduating, such as a teacher, nurse or doctor, then their loans should be removed. It would be proportional if they leave earlier and make up for the lower starting salaries compared to private companies. What happens after 3 years service, they have their loans written off and then go to the private sector? Bit like paying for an apprentice who then leaves and works somewhere else. Shame this country is being ran so badly we even have to talk about this. |
|
|
|
Post by stuart1974 on Jan 23, 2018 13:49:57 GMT
I've long felt that if a student works in the public sector for say 3-5 years after graduating, such as a teacher, nurse or doctor, then their loans should be removed. It would be proportional if they leave earlier and make up for the lower starting salaries compared to private companies. What happens after 3 years service, they have their loans written off and then go to the private sector? Bit like paying for an apprentice who then leaves and works somewhere else. Shame this country is being ran so badly we even have to talk about this. When I did my professional qualifications, some were paid for by my employer with the promise that if I left within a certain period then I would repay part of my fees. It also ensures at least some return for the investment and aids recruitment. If your employer is willing to invest in you then you are more willing to join in the first place. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 23, 2018 13:57:08 GMT
What happens after 3 years service, they have their loans written off and then go to the private sector? Bit like paying for an apprentice who then leaves and works somewhere else. Shame this country is being ran so badly we even have to talk about this. When I did my professional qualifications, some were paid for by my employer with the promise that if I left within a certain period then I would repay part of my fees. It also ensures at least some return for the investment and aids recruitment. If your employer is willing to invest in you then you are more willing to join in the first place. Unfortunately I know too many who took apprentiships and then buggered off, leaving the employer wondering why they bothered. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 23, 2018 16:55:44 GMT
When I did my professional qualifications, some were paid for by my employer with the promise that if I left within a certain period then I would repay part of my fees. It also ensures at least some return for the investment and aids recruitment. If your employer is willing to invest in you then you are more willing to join in the first place. Unfortunately I know too many who took apprentiships and then buggered off, leaving the employer wondering why they bothered. When I finished my 4 year apprenticeship I was earning nearly half the wages of other people at the company. I left and was immediately paid the going rate by my new employer. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jan 24, 2018 11:24:20 GMT
Unfortunately I know too many who took apprentiships and then buggered off, leaving the employer wondering why they bothered. When I finished my 4 year apprenticeship I was earning nearly half the wages of other people at the company. I left and was immediately paid the going rate by my new employer. So you used them to get your apprenticeship and then buggered off? User. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 15:31:05 GMT
Unfortunately I know too many who took apprentiships and then buggered off, leaving the employer wondering why they bothered. When I finished my 4 year apprenticeship I was earning nearly half the wages of other people at the company. I left and was immediately paid the going rate by my new employer. Use and abuse. Great attitude. That’s some loyalty there you showed Mr Rightous. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 24, 2018 15:52:31 GMT
When I finished my 4 year apprenticeship I was earning nearly half the wages of other people at the company. I left and was immediately paid the going rate by my new employer. Use and abuse. Great attitude. That’s some loyalty there you showed Mr Rightous. Stalker.  If they had paid me what everyone else was getting paid for doing exactly the same thing I'd have stayed. As it happens, I returned to work there many years later and very much enjoyed it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 7:26:59 GMT
Use and abuse. Great attitude. That’s some loyalty there you showed Mr Rightous. Stalker. If they had paid me what everyone else was getting paid for doing exactly the same thing I'd have stayed. As it happens, I returned to work there many years later and very much enjoyed it. And you have just highlighted the very good reason why the Nursing bursary was scrapped. Trained Nutses leaving the NHS which they love to join the Private sector and earn twice/ three times the money. You would have thought this would be against said persons morals if they vote Labour. But just like politicians talk is cheap. |
|
|
|
Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 25, 2018 8:05:05 GMT
Stalker. If they had paid me what everyone else was getting paid for doing exactly the same thing I'd have stayed. As it happens, I returned to work there many years later and very much enjoyed it. And you have just highlighted the very good reason why the Nursing bursary was scrapped. Trained Nutses leaving the NHS which they love to join the Private sector and earn twice/ three times the money. You would have thought this would be against said persons morals if they vote Labour. But just like politicians talk is cheap. I'm not a nurse anymore and have never nursed in the private sector. I do agree that someone should be required to nurse for a minimum period in the NHS to qualify for full free bursary or have to pay it (or some of it) back should they not do that. I don't vote Labour. |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jan 25, 2018 14:29:55 GMT
Trade Unions were given legal status under the Gladstone Liberal Government, the initial State Pensions and unemployment benefits under Liberals Asquith and Lloyd George. The NHS was the successor to the Beveridge Report, written by a Liberal Peer and economist. Anyone spot the connection? How very dare you come on this thread and tell the truth stu . every labour supporter knows it was labour who did everything  |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jan 25, 2018 14:44:59 GMT
And you have just highlighted the very good reason why the Nursing bursary was scrapped. Trained Nutses leaving the NHS which they love to join the Private sector and earn twice/ three times the money. You would have thought this would be against said persons morals if they vote Labour. But just like politicians talk is cheap. I'm not a nurse anymore and have never nursed in the private sector. I do agree that someone should be required to nurse for a minimum period in the NHS to qualify for full free bursary or have to pay it (or some of it) back should they not do that. I don't vote Labour. I've always said that uni should only be free to people born n bred here (including the welsh ) , if they then go on to work in that sector but limited to useful degrees , doctors ,nurses even teachers(although teachers should be forced to get out into the big wide world before being allowed to teach, the best teachers i had were those who worked before becoming teachers) and other important roles that serve the country, all others should be paid for , lets face it a lot of people use uni as a skive . The other side is having a degree doesn't mean you are going to be any good in your chosen field, and in that case they should pay most of the tuition fees back. I know a few people who left hospitals to work for agencies, pick n choose hours ,do less hours and earn the same or more for a lot less hassle. one way to deal with agencies would be to have a bank of trained medical staff and rather than paying astronomical agency fees, use the workers who you have in that bank, it would wipe out the agencies and save the nhs a small fortune. |
|
|
|
Post by inee on Jan 25, 2018 14:54:21 GMT
When I did my professional qualifications, some were paid for by my employer with the promise that if I left within a certain period then I would repay part of my fees. It also ensures at least some return for the investment and aids recruitment. If your employer is willing to invest in you then you are more willing to join in the first place. Unfortunately I know too many who took apprentiships and then buggered off, leaving the employer wondering why they bothered. Apprenticeships were different back then though a lot came of the back of yop or yts, it was part n parcel of the apprenticeship that you would then have to work your way up, these days though people seem to want to leave school and start on top wack wage wise, then get the arse because they don't get payed as much as someone who has been doing the job a long time. Another thing was a lot of the time for mostly they didn't get to be apprenticed in the company they wanted so joined that company as soon as they could, tis a shame things have changed so much back then you had to prove your worth not only to the company but also to those you worked alongside, it kind of instilled a certain discipline in you and pride as once you were accepted then it was on your own merit and not because someone told you to accept everyone |
|
