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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 19:36:16 GMT
First off, I don't want this post to come across as criticism, but I want it to promote some healthy debate.
DC has stated in the past, quite clearly, that he is an ambitious manager and he has no intention of stagnating in mid-table in Div One, and rightly so. With that in mind, has the club/team made any progress this season?
First off, the team. How do you define 'progress' on the pitch? Usually, in what is a results business, it can be defined on the finishing league position. Where you finish can be broken down into goals scored, goals conceded and points gained. If you score more than last season, concede fewer than last season, then you should (!) have more points than last season, and therefore a better placing. Is it really that simple as a method to define 'progress'? With six games to go, it looks as though we will not reach the 66 points total of last season. Goals for and against will probably end up pretty much the same as last season, and it looks as though we will finish below last season's tenth place. Is that the sort of progress that DC expected? Is that the sort of progress that we, the fans, expected this season?
Next, the club. This time last year we had recently purchased land for a training ground. We were told that a Cat 2 Academy was the target. Club officials were keen to transmit the news that they were visiting other new training grounds for views/ideas etc. One year on, nothing has happened with the training ground. What we do know is that it will not be a Cat 2 Academy. It will be a drastically reduced version of what was once envisaged and at this point in time, no Planning Application has been submitted. So, it is safe to say, no progress there. Yes, I know that the Planning Application may be submitted soon, but as a Rovers fan of nearly fifty years I don't buy into this 'Jam Tomorrow' talk.
This time last year the 'landing lights' were still on regarding the UWE. Club officials were keen to transmit the news that they were visiting other grounds for views/ideas etc. Now, the UWE has collapsed, for whatever unknown reasons. The silence from the Owners has been deafening regarding any progress on whether they intend to find another site, or redevelop the Mem. So, no progress there.
The Development Squad has been a good move. However, we are told that it costs 300k a year to run. I don't have a problem with that. It's a good move. I do wonder though why we then have to fund an office in London that costs 250k (?) a year to run? I am thinking priorities, and shouldn't we be spending money on the training ground/ development squad rather than an office in London?
So, let's throw this out there:- Realistically, has the Team progressed this season? Realistically, has the Club progressed this season?
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Progress
Apr 2, 2018 19:45:18 GMT
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Post by plymouthgas on Apr 2, 2018 19:45:18 GMT
I think there has been progress off the pitch, maybe not as much as some would have hoped for but definately progress. We now have a seemingly good commercial director, are finally getting into the 21st century with card payments and digital season tickets. Now we just need news on the training ground and stadium.
In terms of the team its hard to say. Obviously losing billy has weakened us, but we definately improved in other areas. Sercome and bennet are much better than we previously had. The signings this summer will be a real indication as yo where we are heading. I think we are only 2 or 3 good signings short of challenging the top 6
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pirate
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Progress
Apr 2, 2018 19:54:23 GMT
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Post by pirate on Apr 2, 2018 19:54:23 GMT
No and no.
I don't think it has been a particularly good season or a bad one on the pitch, a bit of a meh one really. Mid table would be about right.
Off the pitch, the stadium and training ground situation means I can't say we have progressed. I'm not sure what is going on anymore, and like you say, the silence is deafening.
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Post by badengas on Apr 2, 2018 20:02:52 GMT
Yes and yes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 20:08:59 GMT
It’s got to be a no no from me the only thing I will say on the playing side we have some better players under contract, with the right signings and if we hold onto DC then next season who knows but can’t see DC staying he’s bound to have a get out clause in his contract.
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Post by axegas on Apr 2, 2018 20:10:04 GMT
I think we have improved as a team this season over the last couple of years. Sercombe, Bennett and Broadbent look to be very good signings and we finally managed to solve the goalkeeper problem that we had for the last couple of years. Harrison coming along a lot as a player is a bonus too and I hope he can keep it up moving forward. The only departure to regret was Bodin however he truly deserved a chance to play at a higher level and his departure has not actually made us a whole lot weaker though we will miss his moments of magic nevertheless. It's a tougher league this year which probably accounts to why we are the same position if not a little bit lower than where we were last time around. DC will know that he still has work to do but two top 10 finishes in our first two years back in the third tier would be really healthy considering our recent relegation to non league football.
Off the pitch is a little bit more frustrating as we still do not know much more about either the training ground or the new stadium though presumably The Colony project is at a more advanced stage than it was. Lots of little things at the club have changed such as having a commercial director, new ticketing systems and new gates at the mem, so I feel we are taking steps in the right direction at the very least although I don't think many of us can tolerate another year of not having some serious news of major projects that will get the club's infrastructure to the required standard.
Overall I do think progress is being made however over the summer we are going to need the board to back DC so we can push on and retain our better players as well as some serious evidence that steps are being made to secure us a new training ground and new facilities at the mem. I want to believe that the Al Qadi's can deliver on all of that but time will tell I guess.
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Post by socrates on Apr 2, 2018 20:20:35 GMT
I think it’s better to say over two seasons because that’s how long we’ve been back in league 1 and that covers the Taylor sell and bodin too. I think we’ve pretty much stood still overall on the pitch which considering we’ve lost our best two attacking players shows that we’ve improved in defence and midfield. Ellis improving massively has papered over the cracks of Nichols signing that has obviously in hindsight been poor. Sercombe has been good I like Craig, Bennett and Broadbent has been class considering it’s his first professional year . We could have easily ended up relegated this year and usually have when we’ve consistently lost our best attackers in my time supporting us but DC has made some good signings to solidify our squad and fair play to him for that.
Off the pitch the big ones stadium and training ground have been disappointing but the other stuff like signing a good development manager and some good youngsters to go with it have been a plus, also the background staff is probably better than it’s ever been but I’m still waiting for us to sign some gems from abroad for affordable money rather than us missing out on British players of the same quality because we can’t compete with the likes of Charlton , Wigan etc.
Coming in to league 1 I think we were all about momentum with very little infrastructure but over the last two years that has improved massively. We need the training facilities we need the stadium and until we get them winning promotion would almost certainly cause problems the following season because staying there would be tough to say the least .
Overall I’m happy with the progress I don’t blame WAQ for the UWE collapse and my eyes are open enough to see that our new owners spent the first 18 months of their two years so far here sorting out the mess that they bought from the previous owner whom I never liked or trusted to do a good job or see anything through properly. I trust our new owners to keep us progressing but obviously a football clubs progress depends massively on the manager I hope he stays.
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Post by pucklegas on Apr 2, 2018 20:25:39 GMT
I think on the pitch we are going in the right direction, however in both transfer windows in January 2017 and this year losing the snake and B.B. hampered us. We are not good enough yet for championship however next year with some decent additions I expect us to kick on. Sercs, Bennett and Broadbent all good additions, Craig steadying influence, and both keepers decent. Super Ellis most improved player. D.C. needs to be ruthless now. Off the pitch u23 side a bonus, and hopefully something is happening regarding a new plot for a stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 20:29:53 GMT
I'm not sure league position or points paints the whole picture in terms of progression. My gut feeling is that we are gradually improving, we've got decent players who are still learning and hopefully a few good quality additions will arrive in the summer. The management team are still young and again getting more experienced as they go and learning from their mistakes. I think a lot of fans act a bit spoilt after two consecutive promotions and view mid table consolidation in league one as failure to progress which is mad IMO.
Off the pitch we seem to be moving in the right direction and becoming far more professional. However, the biggest issue remains stadium development and the lack of news is worrying. I'm 100% confident in the training ground coming to fruition but that won't keep me dry on the East Terrace!
I don't know a great deal about the London office but I'm sure it's not just about Rovers/Dwayne Sports business - the AQ family have many other interests and will presumably use these offices for for all of it. I don't think anyone should think it's money that has been taken from the football budget.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 2, 2018 20:31:56 GMT
Let's face facts whilst we're stuck at the delapited Mem we ain't going anywhere soon, so Wael/DC have to make sure we don't progress too much as otherwise there's a danger we will make the play offs/then get promoted. At some point the ALQ's will have to bite the bullet and announce plans for a new ground or risk losing DC along with the increased support base. Until day comes I can see it being another season of slow progress, although if DC adds 2 or 3 decent signings in the summer and we don't lose Harrison we could well be a top 6 side next season if we don't get off to another dreadful start.
It's interesting that Oxford's new manager, Karl Robinson, is suggesting that they need an U23 squad next season if they want to progress to the Championship, although they may well be heading for Div 2 if they don't start winning soon!
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Post by oldmarket65 on Apr 2, 2018 20:41:23 GMT
We have progressed since the May 2014 disaster but have 'maintained' rather than 'progressed' since last season. However: we have a historical stumbling block at our club for the last 30 years or so . We seem to crack when it comes to championship play off's. This isn't helped by the numerous failed ground projects which is related to a championship outfit. So it's no different from the 1995 1998 2000 or good season under P.T.
We seem a well positioned division one side ( old div 3 ) but anything beyond that seems sadly a pipedream. I think D.C is a great manager but to go another level ( championship) will require massive investment on and off the field. I question whether we will take the risk ?.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 2, 2018 20:57:28 GMT
We have progressed since the May 2014 disaster but have 'maintained' rather than 'progressed' since last season. However: we have a historical stumbling block at our club for the last 30 years or so . We seem to crack when it comes to championship play off's. This isn't helped by the numerous failed ground projects which is related to a championship outfit. So it's no different from the 1995 1998 2000 or good season under P.T. We seem a well positioned division one side ( old div 3 ) but anything beyond that seems sadly a pipedream. I think D.C is a great manager but to go another level ( championship) will require massive investment on and off the field. I question whether we will take the risk ?. Assuming we do finally submit plans for The Colony (stop smirking) and keep the Develop. Squad then we seem to be taking some risks. Plus the ALQ's seem content to fund the annual losses so surely must have some long term plan to try and recover their losses.
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Post by oldmarket65 on Apr 2, 2018 21:12:05 GMT
We have progressed since the May 2014 disaster but have 'maintained' rather than 'progressed' since last season. However: we have a historical stumbling block at our club for the last 30 years or so . We seem to crack when it comes to championship play off's. This isn't helped by the numerous failed ground projects which is related to a championship outfit. So it's no different from the 1995 1998 2000 or good season under P.T. We seem a well positioned division one side ( old div 3 ) but anything beyond that seems sadly a pipedream. I think D.C is a great manager but to go another level ( championship) will require massive investment on and off the field. I question whether we will take the risk ?. Assuming we do finally submit plans for The Colony (stop smirking) and keep the Develop. Squad then we seem to be taking some risks. Plus the ALQ's seem content to fund the annual losses so surely must have some long term plan to try and recover their losses. This is chicken feed compared to championship football . serious question : where will we get 20 -30 million to get started in the championship ?. We need around 10 million to revamp the MEM and let's take some sides in the season ending 2016 accounts. These are losses: Boro 32m Brighton 26m Hull 21m Reading 15m City 15m Derby 15m Charlton 13m Brentford 13m Fulham 12m. You can slightly understand why the clubs do's a u-turn every time we get close to Champ play off's in the last 25 plus years .
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Post by mjhgas on Apr 2, 2018 21:31:02 GMT
There is stability both on and off the pitch.
Even if DC leaves in the Summer, Hargreaves and Mansell will still be here.
Players won't change much - few additions and a few out the door. The squad continues to improves. Youngsters squad is producing a few first teamers.
Off the pitch - an air of professionalism. No idea about the ground but that's not changed for 40 years!
Onwards! UTG.
#evolution
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 2, 2018 21:45:03 GMT
Assuming we do finally submit plans for The Colony (stop smirking) and keep the Develop. Squad then we seem to be taking some risks. Plus the ALQ's seem content to fund the annual losses so surely must have some long term plan to try and recover their losses. This is chicken feed compared to championship football . serious question : where will we get 20 -30 million to get started in the championship ?. We need around 10 million to revamp the MEM and let's take some sides in the season ending 2016 accounts. These are losses: Boro 32m Brighton 26m Hull 21m Reading 15m City 15m Derby 15m Charlton 13m Brentford 13m Fulham 12m. You can slightly understand why the clubs do's a u-turn every time we get close to Champ play off's in the last 25 plus years . Burton have survived for a few seasons and Rotherham, who are hardly a big club, are trying to get back to the Championship. If we have a revamped ground holding 18K surely we can survive, regardless if we don't hope one day that we'll get promoted we may as well not bother renewing out s/t's and take up a new hobby.
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 2, 2018 22:09:21 GMT
Blimey I’ve never read such a thread with so many good comments and so much common sense! Agree with most of the comments. Yes we have progressed as a team and as a club but it depends on what your starting point or the benchmark you are using to compare against. Using any point in this century as a comparison we have made terrific progress as a team. Some of the s**** we had to watch from 01 to 06 and again ‘11 to ‘14 means that we are on track to finish mid table League 1 for the second year running, something we could never have dreamed off 3 years ago. Clearly progress. As a club we have a development squad from which we have two young players on the current bench, we have planning permission for a much needed training ground, the back up and support staff behind the team is better than ever and a progressive young manager with 3 and a half years to go who has a tremendous rapport with the fans. All of which is infrastructure but it’s not very exciting, it’s not signing a £500k player. We also have owners who say they are committed and here for the long run which is good for the club imo. The elephant in the room of course is the ground or lack of it and whilst this remains the position the progress we make will always be held back and what we can achieve will be limited. Again clearly progressing but the lack of any idea about the new ground will always make the club vulnerable and make fans question our owners ability to deliver a new ground and that is a wasted opportunity since August ‘17. Great idea for thread nobbygas! UTG!
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Post by midlandgas213 on Apr 2, 2018 22:10:24 GMT
Stagnation on both topics
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 2, 2018 22:50:02 GMT
Having just heard that Northampton have sacked Hasselbank made me think about what progress we have made. Looking at who are rivals have been over the past 4 years has made me think that our progress is even better than I thought: 2014-15: In the Conference our rivals were Barnet, Grimsby, FGR and Eastleigh. Eastleigh still in the National League and of the others not one of them is sure of League football next season. None of them have built on their success like we have. 2015-16: in League 2 our rivals were Northampton, Oxford, AFCW and perhaps Plymouth, Pompey and Accrington. The first three have not built on their success like we have and are in a relegation fight. Oxford are on their second manager and Northampton had three sacked since last January. Oxford should survive but I think AFCW and Northampton may go down. Plymouth and Pompey got promotion last season and have a chance of more this season. Accrington will finally go up this season. 2016-17: In League 1 it was hard to see who our true rivals were being mid table as it is this season though I guess Pompey and Plymouth are still rivals. My point is compared to teams who might have been classed as our rivals over the past 4 years we have been far more successful at building and progressing than nearly all of them. We now have to do better than Plymouth and Pompey over the next 4 years! UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 23:59:50 GMT
Off the pitch we have progressed with a big increase in our turnover and the exiting development squad but obviously the ground is still not fit for purpose. On the pitch we have far too many players that need replacing to be contenders despite the fact they are very good professionals. On the pitch therefore i believe we have regressed,the football and the team havnt been as good as last season imo.
For real improvement on and off the pitch we need massive cash investment imo.
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Post by markczgas on Apr 3, 2018 7:20:35 GMT
Sorry if this is boring for some but progress will be better judged when the last ball has been kicked.
Rovers will need 13 pts from last 6 to improve on last season's tally - which would give them 67 pts.
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