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Post by baggins on Jan 20, 2019 13:25:57 GMT
But he's such a loveable man of the people chatacter, funny, intelligent, he's perfect for PM.
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Jan 20, 2019 13:49:54 GMT
Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts. However in this case, the headline deflects from the fact that he is saying the same thing as always, BUT with the caveat that not leaving at all is a potential on the horizon. So he will vote for May's ludicrous proposition if it's a binary choice between Remain and her proposition, but will vote leave with no deal if it's binary between no deal and her proposition. If you can pick an intellectual commitment out of that, one that argues what's best for the UK, well, actually you cannot. This bloke is a fraud wrapped in a cloak of his own perception of respectability. "Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts." Yep, its not like John Major is trying to this, is it..?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 14:19:05 GMT
Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts. However in this case, the headline deflects from the fact that he is saying the same thing as always, BUT with the caveat that not leaving at all is a potential on the horizon. So he will vote for May's ludicrous proposition if it's a binary choice between Remain and her proposition, but will vote leave with no deal if it's binary between no deal and her proposition. If you can pick an intellectual commitment out of that, one that argues what's best for the UK, well, actually you cannot. This bloke is a fraud wrapped in a cloak of his own perception of respectability. "Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts." Yep, its not like John Major is trying to this, is it..? These days Major is just commentator, entitled to his opinion. Rees-Mogg is an elected MP. I am not sure what you are contending to be honest.
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Jan 20, 2019 14:34:33 GMT
"Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts." Yep, its not like John Major is trying to this, is it..? These days Major is just commentator, entitled to his opinion. Rees-Mogg is an elected MP. I am not sure what you are contending to be honest.
"I am not sure what you are contending to be honest."
Really oldie?
So Leavers apparently are "trying to cover their tracks"
John Major, a prominent remainer, who said prior to the referendum "the result will be absolute, there will be no 2nd referendum" The same John Major, said recently, because 30 odd% voted to stay, and 35% didn't vote, the majority didn't vote to leave, so we should have a 2nd referendum! ( Cant remember the exact numbers...)
Of course oldie, remainers don't cover their their tracts, do they?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 15:20:08 GMT
These days Major is just commentator, entitled to his opinion. Rees-Mogg is an elected MP. I am not sure what you are contending to be honest.
"I am not sure what you are contending to be honest."
Really oldie?
So Leavers apparently are "trying to cover their tracks"
John Major, a prominent remainer, who said prior to the referendum "the result will be absolute, there will be no 2nd referendum" The same John Major, said recently, because 30 odd% voted to stay, and 35% didn't vote, the majority didn't vote to leave, so we should have a 2nd referendum! ( Cant remember the exact numbers...)
Of course oldie, remainers don't cover their their tracts, do they?
Its the same as Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. They have their opinions, to which they are entitled. But although they supported Remain, they had no leadership role in the campaign. That was led by Cameron and Osborne, with leading business people like Lord Sainsbury and Stuart Rose. None of these people are in legislative or executive positions in Government. Unlike Johnson, legalistive and executive, Fox, ditto, Gove, Ditto. These people have openly lied (Johnson) and pathetically misled, (Fox). The thing is if the country is in a position of known economic and treaty outcomes, to propose an alternative necessitates a quantified narrative and business case. They did not do it, they made it up. Now they are caught with their pants down.
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Post by jaggas on Jan 20, 2019 19:35:09 GMT
You forget that Blair along with Clegg and other undesirables hated by the majority of Brits have been scuttling back and forth to their beloved Brussels telling the EU to stay firm offer the UK a stinker of a deal to delay Brexit their end while Blair and the EU loving posse do all they can to stop Brexit this end....It is a disgrace and the traitors in the British political system will eventually be held to account.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 20:00:06 GMT
You forget that Blair along with Clegg and other undesirables hated by the majority of Brits have been scuttling back and forth to their beloved Brussels telling the EU to stay firm offer the UK a stinker of a deal to delay Brexit their end while Blair and the EU loving posse do all they can to stop Brexit this end....It is a disgrace and the traitors in the British political system will eventually be held to account. What about....Noddy? A suitable case for capital punishment?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 8:46:43 GMT
I think you are shooting at the wrong target with JRM. It really is funny to see how people turn into a howling mob at the mere mention of someone's name. Here is the problem. May and her cabal are intent on delivering BRINO (Brexit In Name Only). That is just what the WA delivers. Technically out of the EU, but not really. May's deal has the backing of a minimum of 165 MP's, because that is the amount of MOP's in Government, either as Minister's, Junior Ministers, PPS's etc etc. These people HAVE to vote with the Government, or resign. Then there is the Grieve Group. These people are intent on overturning the Referendum vote. They want to stop Brexit. Put those two groups together, and it is a sizable chunk. The ERG, JRM and MP's like Kate Hoey are actually trying to deliver the Brexit that people actually voted for. This group are the ones who represent the 17.4 million majority.
It is interesting to see the pack mentality on here with the attacks on JRM, yet those same people seem to be ignoring the direct attack on Democracy in the UK. How can Remainers support a policy that effectively kills off any of your votes in the future? If Brexit is overturned, you are kissing goodbye to Democracy, no matter how you try to dress it up.
and please, don't quote any 'taking back control' nonsense. The 'taking back control' mantra was aimed at taking back control from Brussels. The anti-democracy being shown in Parliament is taking back control from the electorate, just to give it back to Brussels !
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Post by peterparker on Jan 21, 2019 8:51:44 GMT
I think you are shooting at the wrong target with JRM. It really is funny to see how people turn into a howling mob at the mere mention of someone's name. Here is the problem. May and her cabal are intent on delivering BRINO (Brexit In Name Only). That is just what the WA delivers. Technically out of the EU, but not really. May's deal has the backing of a minimum of 165 MP's, because that is the amount of MOP's in Government, either as Minister's, Junior Ministers, PPS's etc etc. These people HAVE to vote with the Government, or resign. Then there is the Grieve Group. These people are intent on overturning the Referendum vote. They want to stop Brexit. Put those two groups together, and it is a sizable chunk. The ERG, JRM and MP's like Kate Hoey are actually trying to deliver the Brexit that people actually voted for. This group are the ones who represent the 17.4 million majority. It is interesting to see the pack mentality on here with the attacks on JRM, yet those same people seem to be ignoring the direct attack on Democracy in the UK. How can Remainers support a policy that effectively kills off any of your votes in the future? If Brexit is overturned, you are kissing goodbye to Democracy, no matter how you try to dress it up. and please, don't quote any 'taking back control' nonsense. The 'taking back control' mantra was aimed at taking back control from Brussels. The anti-democracy being shown in Parliament is taking back control from the electorate, just to give it back to Brussels ! Just pointing out JRM is a charlatan, just as much as Boris is an opportunist, Gove is a knob.
These people are the ones that have sold BREXIT to the people (rightly or wrongly) but have done nothing to deliver it.
you mention BRINO, but Mogg is prepared to back it now (wasn't the other week) in order to prevent No BREXIT. The Irony being he and others are/were telling us it make us rule takers from Brussels and a Vassal state, but now prefer to have that then remain where we have some influence
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 8:55:36 GMT
I think you are shooting at the wrong target with JRM. It really is funny to see how people turn into a howling mob at the mere mention of someone's name. Here is the problem. May and her cabal are intent on delivering BRINO (Brexit In Name Only). That is just what the WA delivers. Technically out of the EU, but not really. May's deal has the backing of a minimum of 165 MP's, because that is the amount of MOP's in Government, either as Minister's, Junior Ministers, PPS's etc etc. These people HAVE to vote with the Government, or resign. Then there is the Grieve Group. These people are intent on overturning the Referendum vote. They want to stop Brexit. Put those two groups together, and it is a sizable chunk. The ERG, JRM and MP's like Kate Hoey are actually trying to deliver the Brexit that people actually voted for. This group are the ones who represent the 17.4 million majority. It is interesting to see the pack mentality on here with the attacks on JRM, yet those same people seem to be ignoring the direct attack on Democracy in the UK. How can Remainers support a policy that effectively kills off any of your votes in the future? If Brexit is overturned, you are kissing goodbye to Democracy, no matter how you try to dress it up. and please, don't quote any 'taking back control' nonsense. The 'taking back control' mantra was aimed at taking back control from Brussels. The anti-democracy being shown in Parliament is taking back control from the electorate, just to give it back to Brussels ! Just pointing out JRM is a charlatan, just as much as Boris is an opportunist, Gove is a knob.
These people are the ones that have sold BREXIT to the people (rightly or wrongly) but have done nothing to deliver it.
you mention BRINO, but Mogg is prepared to back it now (wasn't the other week) in order to prevent No BREXIT. The Irony being he and others are/were telling us it make us rule takers from Brussels and a Vassal state, but now prefer to have that then remain where we have some influence
I think JRM is just being pragmatic. I haven't read the full context of what he said, but I'd imagine he is thinking May's deal is better than no Brexit. Personally, I would disagree with that, as I think May's deal is worse than Remaining !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:20:56 GMT
Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts. However in this case, the headline deflects from the fact that he is saying the same thing as always, BUT with the caveat that not leaving at all is a potential on the horizon. So he will vote for May's ludicrous proposition if it's a binary choice between Remain and her proposition, but will vote leave with no deal if it's binary between no deal and her proposition. If you can pick an intellectual commitment out of that, one that argues what's best for the UK, well, actually you cannot. This bloke is a fraud wrapped in a cloak of his own perception of respectability. So, what did he actually write then.... "“If I had to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s original accord, I would have no hesitation of opting for no-deal Brexit but even Mrs May’s deal would be better than not leaving at all.”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:28:59 GMT
Its surreal how these people are trying to cover their tracts. However in this case, the headline deflects from the fact that he is saying the same thing as always, BUT with the caveat that not leaving at all is a potential on the horizon. So he will vote for May's ludicrous proposition if it's a binary choice between Remain and her proposition, but will vote leave with no deal if it's binary between no deal and her proposition. If you can pick an intellectual commitment out of that, one that argues what's best for the UK, well, actually you cannot. This bloke is a fraud wrapped in a cloak of his own perception of respectability. So, what did he actually write then.... "“If I had to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s original accord, I would have no hesitation of opting for no-deal Brexit but even Mrs May’s deal would be better than not leaving at all.” Ummm. Exactly. Where is the committed intellectual argument in that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:33:40 GMT
Let's remind ourselves of a few facts and figures...
EU Referendum Votes
By Constituency: 406 Leave - 242 Remain By Voting Area: 263 Leave - 119 Remain By Party: Labour 148 Leave - 84 Remain Tory 247 Leave - 80 Remain By MP: 248 Leave - 400 Remain
MP's are the problem. Elected to serve, but only serving themselves and the rancid EU.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:34:44 GMT
So, what did he actually write then.... "“If I had to choose between no deal and Mrs May’s original accord, I would have no hesitation of opting for no-deal Brexit but even Mrs May’s deal would be better than not leaving at all.” Ummm. Exactly. Where is the committed intellectual argument in that? For your required 'committed intellectual argument' I refer you to your last post.... "What about....Noddy? A suitable case for capital punishment?"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:36:21 GMT
I think you are shooting at the wrong target with JRM. It really is funny to see how people turn into a howling mob at the mere mention of someone's name. Here is the problem. May and her cabal are intent on delivering BRINO (Brexit In Name Only). That is just what the WA delivers. Technically out of the EU, but not really. May's deal has the backing of a minimum of 165 MP's, because that is the amount of MOP's in Government, either as Minister's, Junior Ministers, PPS's etc etc. These people HAVE to vote with the Government, or resign. Then there is the Grieve Group. These people are intent on overturning the Referendum vote. They want to stop Brexit. Put those two groups together, and it is a sizable chunk. The ERG, JRM and MP's like Kate Hoey are actually trying to deliver the Brexit that people actually voted for. This group are the ones who represent the 17.4 million majority. It is interesting to see the pack mentality on here with the attacks on JRM, yet those same people seem to be ignoring the direct attack on Democracy in the UK. How can Remainers support a policy that effectively kills off any of your votes in the future? If Brexit is overturned, you are kissing goodbye to Democracy, no matter how you try to dress it up. and please, don't quote any 'taking back control' nonsense. The 'taking back control' mantra was aimed at taking back control from Brussels. The anti-democracy being shown in Parliament is taking back control from the electorate, just to give it back to Brussels ! Two points. It wasn't a 17.4 m majority it was 17.4 total leave vote. The majority was 4% of the TOTAL combined vote. And leavers voted for a absolute sovereign Parliament. Now they don't like it when it acts as such. It seems to me that Leavers want to IMPOSE their will when they cannot win the debate in Parliament. Threats of violent outcomes, social unrest etc. Not very conducive to a functioning democracy is it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:40:25 GMT
Let's remind ourselves of a few facts and figures... EU Referendum Votes By Constituency: 406 Leave - 242 Remain By Voting Area: 263 Leave - 119 Remain By Party: Labour 148 Leave - 84 Remain Tory 247 Leave - 80 Remain By MP: 248 Leave - 400 Remain MP's are the problem. Elected to serve, but only serving themselves and the rancid EU. That's a straw man argument. One that undermines our democracy. Like America we have a representative democracy, where are areas are split and represented. A referendum is not like that (and why its a foolish thing to do). Taking your argument, you could reverse it. In which case Trump lost against Clinton, and we probably would have a one party state in the UK. Happy with that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:43:37 GMT
Ummm. Exactly. Where is the committed intellectual argument in that? For your required 'committed intellectual argument' I refer you to your last post.... "What about....Noddy? A suitable case for capital punishment?" I reserve the right to apply farce to anything that the person named Jaggas writes. In the same way as you advocated voting for the Monster Raving Loony Party(in circumstances I agreed with)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:51:39 GMT
Let's remind ourselves of a few facts and figures... EU Referendum Votes By Constituency: 406 Leave - 242 Remain By Voting Area: 263 Leave - 119 Remain By Party: Labour 148 Leave - 84 Remain Tory 247 Leave - 80 Remain By MP: 248 Leave - 400 Remain MP's are the problem. Elected to serve, but only serving themselves and the rancid EU. That's a straw man argument. One that undermines our democracy. Like America we have a representative democracy, where are areas are split and represented. A referendum is not like that (and why its a foolish thing to do). Taking your argument, you could reverse it. In which case Trump lost against Clinton, and we probably would have a one party state in the UK. Happy with that? What absolute nonsense. They are facts that are undeniable. You keep on harping about facts, and the lack of them from either side.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 9:55:03 GMT
I think you are shooting at the wrong target with JRM. It really is funny to see how people turn into a howling mob at the mere mention of someone's name. Here is the problem. May and her cabal are intent on delivering BRINO (Brexit In Name Only). That is just what the WA delivers. Technically out of the EU, but not really. May's deal has the backing of a minimum of 165 MP's, because that is the amount of MOP's in Government, either as Minister's, Junior Ministers, PPS's etc etc. These people HAVE to vote with the Government, or resign. Then there is the Grieve Group. These people are intent on overturning the Referendum vote. They want to stop Brexit. Put those two groups together, and it is a sizable chunk. The ERG, JRM and MP's like Kate Hoey are actually trying to deliver the Brexit that people actually voted for. This group are the ones who represent the 17.4 million majority. It is interesting to see the pack mentality on here with the attacks on JRM, yet those same people seem to be ignoring the direct attack on Democracy in the UK. How can Remainers support a policy that effectively kills off any of your votes in the future? If Brexit is overturned, you are kissing goodbye to Democracy, no matter how you try to dress it up. and please, don't quote any 'taking back control' nonsense. The 'taking back control' mantra was aimed at taking back control from Brussels. The anti-democracy being shown in Parliament is taking back control from the electorate, just to give it back to Brussels ! Two points. It wasn't a 17.4 m majority it was 17.4 total leave vote. The majority was 4% of the TOTAL combined vote. And leavers voted for a absolute sovereign Parliament. Now they don't like it when it acts as such. It seems to me that Leavers want to IMPOSE their will when they cannot win the debate in Parliament. Threats of violent outcomes, social unrest etc. Not very conducive to a functioning democracy is it. "And leavers voted for a absolute sovereign Parliament." - Um, no they didn't. They voted to Leave the EU. "It seems to me that Leavers want to IMPOSE their will when they cannot win the debate in Parliament." - Parliament asked the electorate to make a decision. Parliament promised to uphold that vote and act upon the result. There should be no debate in Parliament. Parliament asked, the people voted, now they should concentrate on delivering.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 10:54:55 GMT
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