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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 23:14:43 GMT
Don’t be so simplistic, they’re totally different scenarios, as you very well know. If, after tortuous negotiations Lord Frost and his team are unable to obtain a deal then that means that the EU have tried to tie us to their rules and regulations and deny us sovereignty. So, in those circumstances I shall celebrate, because it means we have achieved total sovereignty which is what I voted for, not some bastardised abortion like that cow May tried to foist on us. Of course my preferred outcome would be to leave with a deal, but not at any price. My word, it's like a walking talking Tory billboard. No this conversation is simplistic - 365 wanted to make a point, you called him a traitor, wished for this death and called him names. Now you're wanting to celebrate the same damage that he had wished for. You can try to twist it in any way you want, but that's how it is. Ive not changed my opinion- I don’t wish harm on any individual, even (although admittedly it’s a struggle) oldgas. But the country as an amorphous entity? Yes. We have become a nation of self serving bell-ends and I don’t think there is much here worth saving to be honest. Certainly very little to be proud of, unless inequality floats your boat. We’re brilliant at that. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 23:18:30 GMT
I’m not trying to defend either side. I’m merely point out that if you truly believe that 365 is wishing harm on this country, then you’re held to the same standard when celebrating that same harm - you can’t have it both ways. In your terminology, you’re either both traitors or neither of you are. You also said that your words about wanting 365 hung were taken out of context and exaggerated, don’t you think that it’s then possible you’re doing the same? Or do you want it all in your favour once again? Don’t be so simplistic, they’re totally different scenarios, as you very well know. If, after tortuous negotiations Lord Frost and his team are unable to obtain a deal then that means that the EU have tried to tie us to their rules and regulations and deny us sovereignty. So, in those circumstances I shall celebrate, because it means we have achieved total sovereignty which is what I voted for, not some bastardised abortion like that cow May tried to foist on us. Of course my preferred outcome would be to leave with a deal, but not at any price. Look , I haven’t much time for Theresa May but just drop the misogynist bullshit will you . It does you no favours and doesn’t help your ( moronic) argument. Show at least a modicum of class |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 28, 2020 23:27:29 GMT
British Constitutional Law is a thing of mystery to him. The highlighting is pointless really because Parliament waves through nearly everything Brussels asks, otherwise here would have been little point in signing Maastricht, Dublin etc etc. Youre quite right, we should have held referenda on those treaties, but our cowardly leaders at the time didn’t because they were frightened the people would vote against their wishes. Was it Blair in opposition who said we should have a ref. on Maastricht, but when he won power said it had already been passed so there was nothing he could do? In any case, if the people had voted against it, the EU would only have made us vote again until we got it right, just like they did to other countries. Heres a little selection of rules from the EU we have to obey. None of these have been agreed by THE PEOPLE, hence why we have now got Brexit. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_of_European_Union_law Not quite the examples I was expecting, I guess you knew that though. Incidentally, the UK Act which laid the groundwork for allowing EU law was the '72 Act, the one you ratified in person in the '75 referendum. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 23:29:50 GMT
Don’t be so simplistic, they’re totally different scenarios, as you very well know. If, after tortuous negotiations Lord Frost and his team are unable to obtain a deal then that means that the EU have tried to tie us to their rules and regulations and deny us sovereignty. So, in those circumstances I shall celebrate, because it means we have achieved total sovereignty which is what I voted for, not some bastardised abortion like that cow May tried to foist on us. Of course my preferred outcome would be to leave with a deal, but not at any price. Look , I haven’t much time for Theresa May but just drop the misogynist bullshit will you . It does you no favours and doesn’t help your ( moronic) argument. Show at least a modicum of class Yep, he goes off like that and then tries to claim that *we* are disgusting. Classic oldgas. I recall he got called out on the Coughlan thread for his attacks on Coughlan that brought his nationality into it. Tells you all you need to know that does. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 28, 2020 23:33:52 GMT
Can’t help myself but I envisage Oldgas as a 65 yr old pot bellied bloke with a pair of doc martins , string vest and a hanky tied on his head . Sat on a deckchair on Weston super mare beach 🏖only getting up to go patrolling up and down the beech looking out to sea with binoculars for forineeers . Waving his Union Jack flag .
Soz Oldgas 🤗
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 28, 2020 23:38:42 GMT
Everything you stated in the post I referred to. Stuart. You’re a reasonable man, do you agree with Oldie’s opinion? The link to the original post is gone but if it is referring to your post I think it is, then I'm not sure where you get the view that we are "largely administered by Brussels". That doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 23:43:26 GMT
Can’t help myself but I envisage Oldgas as a 65 yr old pot bellied bloke with a pair of doc martins , string vest and a hanky tied on his head . Sat on a deckchair on Weston super mare beach 🏖only getting up to go patrolling up and down the beech looking out to sea with binoculars for forineeers . Waving his Union Jack flag . Soz Oldgas 🤗 His rhetoric does scream “little Englander”. I suspect national pride is a major part of who oldgas is because its not uncommon in the pre-millennial generation in my experience. The British identity seemed to be drummed into people before the 90’s and they can’t let go of it. I don’t consider myself British or English. Probably why the word “traitor” has no effect on me. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 28, 2020 23:45:24 GMT
You objected to the EU being in a position to dictate our laws, even though we had the veto so they didn't? Or am I making that up? I suggest you you read this then reconsider if you wish to ask this foolish question. If, like your Remoaning friends on here you choose not to read anything that goes against your argument, let me paraphrase: The BBC, the biggest champion of the EU in this country, is saying EU law has primacy, and there are whole rafts of legislation on which the UK Parliament has had no say. Did you read your own link? "The government has the power to vote against - or sometimes even veto - proposals in the Council of Ministers." You do know how EU law is made, don't you? |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 29, 2020 0:00:57 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456I suggest you you read this then reconsider if you wish to ask this foolish question. If, like your Remoaning friends on here you choose not to read anything that goes against your argument, let me paraphrase: The BBC, the biggest champion of the EU in this country, is saying EU law has primacy, and there are whole rafts of legislation on which the UK Parliament has had no say. Did you read your own link? "The government has the power to vote against - or sometimes even veto - proposals in the Council of Ministers." You do know how EU law is made, don't you? I did try telling him he should of read it first . He went missing for a few days whilst frantically googling for info .... thought he’d struck gold and just whacked it up on here . Oops.... forgot , it was shift patterns. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 29, 2020 0:04:55 GMT
Can’t help myself but I envisage Oldgas as a 65 yr old pot bellied bloke with a pair of doc martins , string vest and a hanky tied on his head . Sat on a deckchair on Weston super mare beach 🏖only getting up to go patrolling up and down the beech looking out to sea with binoculars for forineeers . Waving his Union Jack flag . Soz Oldgas 🤗 His rhetoric does scream “little Englander”. I suspect national pride is a major part of who oldgas is because its not uncommon in the pre-millennial generation in my experience. The British identity seemed to be drummed into people before the 90’s and they can’t let go of it. I don’t consider myself British or English. Probably why the word “traitor” has no effect on me. I’m a proud English , British & European born well before 1990 . Ain’t no f**ker gonna tell me I’m unpatriotic. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 0:22:01 GMT
His rhetoric does scream “little Englander”. I suspect national pride is a major part of who oldgas is because its not uncommon in the pre-millennial generation in my experience. The British identity seemed to be drummed into people before the 90’s and they can’t let go of it. I don’t consider myself British or English. Probably why the word “traitor” has no effect on me. I’m a proud English , British & European born well before 1990 . Ain’t no f**ker gonna tell me I’m unpatriotic. Nothing wrong with patriotism in and of itself, when it mutates into the sort of angry rhetoric espoused by oldgas (colourful language aimed at people who have betrayed their country: Cameron, May, me (😂)) it becomes problematic and dangerous. Nazi propaganda played on exactly those tropes using exactly that language: betrayal by traitors, the idea of the “stab in the back” becoming legend. We all know how that turned out when that sort of angry nationalism founded on grudges was allowed to ferment. |
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Post by yattongas on Nov 29, 2020 0:39:23 GMT
I’m a proud English , British & European born well before 1990 . Ain’t no f**ker gonna tell me I’m unpatriotic. Nothing wrong with patriotism in and of itself, when it mutates into the sort of angry rhetoric espoused by oldgas (colourful language aimed at people who have betrayed their country: Cameron, May, me (😂)) it becomes problematic and dangerous. Nazi propaganda played on exactly those tropes using exactly that language: betrayal by traitors, the idea of the “stab in the back” becoming legend. We all know how that turned out when that sort of angry nationalism founded on grudges was allowed to ferment. Agreed . |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2020 3:13:06 GMT
Also on the subject of wishing harm, whenever I vote, I do so because I genuinely want to make the lives of those worse off better. Oldgas can you honestly say with a straight face that you voted for Brexit because first and foremost you think the likes of me and everyone else on this thread will be better off as a result or were you voting selfishly for what YOU wanted and what benefits you first, either economically or politically? Personally I’d be very surprised if you had anything other than your own wants and needs in mind when you put that cross on the ballot slip.
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 9:28:42 GMT
My word, it's like a walking talking Tory billboard. No this conversation is simplistic - 365 wanted to make a point, you called him a traitor, wished for this death and called him names. Now you're wanting to celebrate the same damage that he had wished for. You can try to twist it in any way you want, but that's how it is. Ive not changed my opinion- I don’t wish harm on any individual, even (although admittedly it’s a struggle) oldgas. But the country as an amorphous entity? Yes. We have become a nation of self serving bell-ends and I don’t think there is much here worth saving to be honest. Certainly very little to be proud of, unless inequality floats your boat. We’re brilliant at that. Theres plenty of people who would disagree with this, if the traffic across the channel is anything to go by. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 9:44:50 GMT
Also on the subject of wishing harm, whenever I vote, I do so because I genuinely want to make the lives of those worse off better. Oldgas can you honestly say with a straight face that you voted for Brexit because first and foremost you think the likes of me and everyone else on this thread will be better off as a result or were you voting selfishly for what YOU wanted and what benefits you first, either economically or politically? Personally I’d be very surprised if you had anything other than your own wants and needs in mind when you put that cross on the ballot slip. Oh yes,I votedleave because I want to plunge everyone here into abject poverty. Or I voted leave because I truly believe that being part of the EU is holding us back, taking back control of our laws will benefit our country more and won’t be geared to what Europe needs, and that we will no longer be paying billions into an unaccounted black hole, with the probability that we’ll be on the hook for even more every time an EU country defaults, like Greece, or there’s a pandemic where, if we had still been a member, we would have been expected to pay out even more billions and got practically nothing back. Europe will still want to trade with us, and trade will continue. There will be so,e adjustments if there’s no deal, but it will work. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 9:46:08 GMT
I’m a proud English , British & European born well before 1990 . Ain’t no f**ker gonna tell me I’m unpatriotic. Nothing wrong with patriotism in and of itself, when it mutates into the sort of angry rhetoric espoused by oldgas (colourful language aimed at people who have betrayed their country: Cameron, May, me (😂)) it becomes problematic and dangerous. Nazi propaganda played on exactly those tropes using exactly that language: betrayal by traitors, the idea of the “stab in the back” becoming legend. We all know how that turned out when that sort of angry nationalism founded on grudges was allowed to ferment. You write some utter crap at times, you really do! |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 9:48:22 GMT
Can’t help myself but I envisage Oldgas as a 65 yr old pot bellied bloke with a pair of doc martins , string vest and a hanky tied on his head . Sat on a deckchair on Weston super mare beach 🏖only getting up to go patrolling up and down the beech looking out to sea with binoculars for forineeers . Waving his Union Jack flag . Soz Oldgas 🤗 Quite why I would want to get out of my deckchair to climb up and down a tree is beyond me, but there you go. |
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 9:50:40 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456I suggest you you read this then reconsider if you wish to ask this foolish question. If, like your Remoaning friends on here you choose not to read anything that goes against your argument, let me paraphrase: The BBC, the biggest champion of the EU in this country, is saying EU law has primacy, and there are whole rafts of legislation on which the UK Parliament has had no say. Did you read your own link? "The government has the power to vote against - or sometimes even veto - proposals in the Council of Ministers." You do know how EU law is made, don't you? Yes I do. And that veto is only available in very limited circumstances and is being squeezed out with every new treaty. come on Stuart, I thought you were better than that. |
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Post by Gassy on Nov 29, 2020 9:55:40 GMT
My god think we need to employ a fact checker just to go through OldGas’ posts 😂
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Post by oldgas on Nov 29, 2020 10:03:11 GMT
This is what I was replying to. You hoped that the USA would assist the EU in teaching us a lesson. you wrote this on Rememberance Day. You are disgusting. A disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself, however an idiot who wants other countries to do harm to his homeland is beyond feeling shame. I bet you wish you hadn’t started this. Anyone who feels inclined to support this buffoon, go and visit 449 & 450. Read what this traitor thinks of your country. We’ve voted to give him the power to do us harm. Don’t blame me if he uses it, which he will, because why wouldn’t he? What are we going to do to stop him? What leverage do we possibly have to make the president of the US take us seriously? We’re desperate for a deal! If we’re going to give them that power then we need to man up and take the consequences but as I’ve said before I can see all the brexit voters avoiding the consequences by changing their tune and you’ll struggle to find someone who admits to voting for it when the reality starts to dawn that it’s gone tits up (if it hasn’t already) Perhaps if you Remainers hadn’t done your level best to overturn the leave vote this would have been progressed quicker and we wouldn’t be faced with having Obama mk2 in the White House interfering in our democracy. I don’t agree we’re desperate for a deal. May wasn’t desperate for a deal, she just wanted to keep us tied to Europe, that’s why it’s been so torturous trying to unpick the awful terms she tried to force through. A deal would be nice, but if the terms are too onerous then no deal will be fine. |
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