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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 19, 2020 20:14:20 GMT
I don't know who thought British workers would do the work they haven't before so don't see how Brexit would change that,if you can't be arsed to get out of bed then Brexit was never going to change that. But they were stealing our jobs .... "eric dislikes (voted for) this"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2020 22:09:06 GMT
But they were stealing our jobs .... "eric dislikes (voted for) this" Brutal But I did laugh
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Post by francegas on Dec 19, 2020 22:45:57 GMT
I don't know who thought British workers would do the work they haven't before so don't see how Brexit would change that,if you can't be arsed to get out of bed then Brexit was never going to change that. Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !!
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Post by Gassy on Dec 19, 2020 23:00:16 GMT
I don't know who thought British workers would do the work they haven't before so don't see how Brexit would change that,if you can't be arsed to get out of bed then Brexit was never going to change that. Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit?
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Post by yattongas on Dec 19, 2020 23:57:55 GMT
Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? Pick for Britain 🇬🇧 How did that work out for the Tory fuckers ?
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Post by francegas on Dec 20, 2020 9:05:03 GMT
Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? No I'm not saying that Gassy. People who were furloughed on 80% of wages were quite entitled to assist with fruit/veg picking without it affecting their furlough income or employment....How many took it up to help.? People who were on benefits could have helped without it affecting their benefit income....How many took it up to help? How many people furloughed or on benefits decided their income was sufficient and couldn't be arsed to help out. Obviously too many otherwise we wouldn't have had to charter plane loads of pickers from eastern Europe during a pandemic.
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Post by francegas on Dec 20, 2020 9:08:37 GMT
Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? Pick for Britain 🇬🇧 How did that work out for the Tory fuckers ? Well using your words ... if the labour supporting benefit scrounging fu*kers can't be arsed to help....not very well.
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 9:18:07 GMT
Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? No I'm not saying that Gassy. People who were furloughed on 80% of wages were quite entitled to assist with fruit/veg picking without it affecting their furlough income or employment....How many took it up to help.? People who were on benefits could have helped without it affecting their benefit income....How many took it up to help? How many people furloughed or on benefits decided their income was sufficient and couldn't be arsed to help out. Obviously too many otherwise we wouldn't have had to charter plane loads of pickers from eastern Europe during a pandemic. This is such a nonsensical argument. People on benefits would need to travel back and forth to farms... usually in the middle of no where everyday with little to no public transport making it nigh on impossible. Or...., they’d need accommodation to stay on site , which again costs money and are you gonna take your kids with you to stay in a caravan on a Norfolk farm ?
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 9:21:00 GMT
Pick for Britain 🇬🇧 How did that work out for the Tory fuckers ? Well using your words ... if the labour supporting benefit scrounging fu*kers can't be arsed to help....not very well. Does this make anyone who was on furlough a Labour supporting benefit scrounger ? Because furlough was a form of government benefit or doesn’t that suit your bollox argument?
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Post by francegas on Dec 20, 2020 9:29:45 GMT
Well using your words ... if the labour supporting benefit scrounging fu*kers can't be arsed to help....not very well. Does this make anyone who was on furlough a Labour supporting benefit scrounger ? Because furlough was a form of government benefit or doesn’t that suit your bollox argument? Wow certainly elements from the left here can't seem to have a debate without using gutter language.
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Post by francegas on Dec 20, 2020 9:33:41 GMT
No I'm not saying that Gassy. People who were furloughed on 80% of wages were quite entitled to assist with fruit/veg picking without it affecting their furlough income or employment....How many took it up to help.? People who were on benefits could have helped without it affecting their benefit income....How many took it up to help? How many people furloughed or on benefits decided their income was sufficient and couldn't be arsed to help out. Obviously too many otherwise we wouldn't have had to charter plane loads of pickers from eastern Europe during a pandemic. This is such a nonsensical argument. People on benefits would need to travel back and forth to farms... usually in the middle of no where everyday with little to no public transport making it nigh on impossible. Or...., they’d need accommodation to stay on site , which again costs money and are you gonna take your kids with you to stay in a caravan on a Norfolk farm ? So everyone who was furloughed or on benefits lives in city centres and has no form of transport. Always an excuse not to work from the left.
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Post by oldgas on Dec 20, 2020 9:39:29 GMT
I don't know who thought British workers would do the work they haven't before so don't see how Brexit would change that,if you can't be arsed to get out of bed then Brexit was never going to change that. Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! You’re wasting your time Francegas. I’ve stopped commenting on here because you’re up against an anti-Brexit, anti- British cabal of left wing navel gazers who immediately gang up if you attempt to express or defend an opposing point of view. According to their warped logic, Britain licensing the Covid vaccine had absolutely nothing to do with the fact we had left the EU, that had absolutely no bearing on the fact we struck out on our own, without waiting for the European Medicine body to licence the product, it was pure coincidence, don’t you know. And finally, if you do manage to skewer them on an argument from which they can’t rescue themselves through insult, ridicule and obsfucation, they just go back through the posts and remove the ones that damage their argument. They’ve done it to me, that’s why I don’t bother anymore. Never mind, there’s only about 5 or 6 raving lefties in this little group and they’re happy just promoting their ridiculous agenda, agreeing with and slapping each other on the back at their collective cleverness. The important thing is, there’s 11 days to freedom day. Rejoice!
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 20, 2020 9:43:19 GMT
Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? No I'm not saying that Gassy. People who were furloughed on 80% of wages were quite entitled to assist with fruit/veg picking without it affecting their furlough income or employment....How many took it up to help.? People who were on benefits could have helped without it affecting their benefit income....How many took it up to help? How many people furloughed or on benefits decided their income was sufficient and couldn't be arsed to help out. Obviously too many otherwise we wouldn't have had to charter plane loads of pickers from eastern Europe during a pandemic. Looking at this in a bit more detail there are all sorts of factors as to why we cannot as a Country generate enough folk to do this work and here's my take on it. . Wages are relative low mostly at Minimum wage level or slightly above and this does not incentivise our folk to do it. .it is attractive to Overseas workers as the pay in relation to their cost of living is better and they can return a fair % to their Country of residence where it has bethere buying power. . The seasonal nature does not appeal to our folk . .it is very hard back breaking work in difficult conditions and that does not appeal either. . We as a Country have to accept that in relative terms food is much cheaper now than it was 30 years ago and unless we are willing to pay more then wages for this type of work will remain low . Just my take on it feel free to "pick" it apart!!
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 9:43:24 GMT
This is such a nonsensical argument. People on benefits would need to travel back and forth to farms... usually in the middle of no where everyday with little to no public transport making it nigh on impossible. Or...., they’d need accommodation to stay on site , which again costs money and are you gonna take your kids with you to stay in a caravan on a Norfolk farm ? So everyone who was furloughed or on benefits lives in city centres and has no form of transport. Always an excuse not to work from the left. I’m on the left and I’ve worked all my life . Most of the posters on here who are left leaning work I’d guess . So are you saying to be on benefits you have to be a Labour voter or are you just wildly chucking out right wing tropes again to suit your nonsense argument? Those old red wall voters who’ve now switched to Tory are obviously the problem . Lazy Tory voting benefit scrounging lazy bastards who can’t get out of bed to pick fruit & veg . I get you 👍
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 9:43:57 GMT
Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! You’re wasting your time Francegas. I’ve stopped commenting on here because you’re up against an anti-Brexit, anti- British cabal of left wing navel gazers who immediately gang up if you attempt to express or defend an opposing point of view. According to their warped logic, Britain licensing the Covid vaccine had absolutely nothing to do with the fact we had left the EU, that had absolutely no bearing on the fact we struck out on our own, without waiting for the European Medicine body to licence the product, it was pure coincidence, don’t you know. And finally, if you do manage to skewer them on an argument from which they can’t rescue themselves through insult, ridicule and obsfucation, they just go back through the posts and remove the ones that damage their argument. They’ve done it to me, that’s why I don’t bother anymore. Never mind, there’s only about 5 or 6 raving lefties in this little group and they’re happy just promoting their ridiculous agenda, agreeing with and slapping each other on the back at their collective cleverness. The important thing is, there’s 11 days to freedom day. Rejoice! Yeah Oldgas is back !!
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 9:53:48 GMT
For decades, the UK’s agricultural industry has relied on migrant labour. Each year, an estimated 80,000 workers, primarily from Eastern Europe, come to harvest Britain’s fruit and veg. But this year, due to Covid-19 travel restrictions and ongoing uncertainties regarding Brexit, many would-be fruit pickers have been unable to make the trip. This has left a gaping hole in the agricultural workforce—one which British workers are expected to fill.
On the 19th May, Environment Secretary George Eustice launched the official “Pick for Britain” campaign, encouraging the population to take up work on farms across the country. If it fails, the media’s bleak premonitions of “a disastrous situation” in which “mountains of food are left to rot” could find themselves realised. Signalling an intensification of the recruitment drive, last week the government wheeled out Prince Charles. Donning his humblest, most rumpled coat, in a video message he urged viewers to sign up. While acknowledging that the work would be “unglamorous and at times challenging,” Charles unashamedly evoked notions of national duty and that fabled “blitz spirit.”
I’ve been working on a strawberry farm since mid-April. Like others, I wasn’t covered by the government’s furlough scheme and wanted to help the country in a time of crisis. But as I watched Charles’s broadcast from a blustery field, the gale pummelling at my caravan’s chipboard walls, I couldn’t help but feel that I knew something I shouldn’t. It was as if I’d taken a glance behind the curtain and, to my horror, found the machine.
Before I continue, I must stress that it’s not all bad. In this isolated corner of the English countryside you’ll find a veritable mosaic of nationalities and cultures. The workforce of about 90 includes Romanians, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Moldovans and English. All are housed together on the farm’s caravan site and get on extremely well. The all-night Romanian discos, beers in the sun and games of football have been welcome respite from the monotony of lockdown.
The English contingent are equally intriguing. We all arrived within the last month, inspired by the government’s calls to action. To commit to working on a farm with complete strangers for six months you have to be a certain kind of person—gregarious, adventurous and—whisper it—a bit odd. We’re a diverse bunch and this has allowed for the ludicrous brand of social alchemy normally reserved for reality television. Where else would you hear a window cleaner from Croydon debate the morality of bin-diving with a 40-year-old hippie and didgeridoo enthusiast?
However, 5am starts and 10-hour shifts leave little time for socialising. Our weeks are dominated by work. And it’s tough. Really tough. Being bent over picking fruit for most of the day puts huge strain on your body. Perhaps this wouldn’t be a problem if we were adequately paid and properly housed. In reality, neither is true. The UK boasts the cheapest food in western Europe. My experience has made clear that this is only made possible through the neglect of employee welfare.
For example, the notion that you can make good money through “piece work,” as has been asserted by both MPs and industry experts, is a fallacy. Unless you have significant prior experience, making anything above the minimum wage is highly unrealistic. After funds are deducted for rent and deposits, our salaries come to about £7 per hour. Furthermore, management’s conduct towards employees has been, at times, appalling. I’ve seen my colleagues berated, degraded and branded “stupid” by their superiors.
The facilities are equally disappointing. Despite being in the throes of a deadly pandemic, the farm owner refuses to supply the bathrooms with hand soap. To save on bills, caravans aren’t hooked up to the mains. Consequently, they have no running water and can get perilously cold at night. We were assured that the caravans would be cleaned before our arrival. Instead, I found a cabin seething with mould and littered with mouse droppings. Mice make dreadful housemates. They are reclusive, dirty, and scarper whenever you suggest they put some money towards bills.
Unfortunately, these issues are common. According to a 2018 report by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority (GLAA), labour exploitation is on the rise in the UK, and the agricultural industry is one of the worst offenders. As part of a project conducted by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA), researchers identified the most prevalent forms of labour exploitation. These included workers being paid less than promised, fees flowing back to the employer through rent, and reliance on an employer for everything, including food, creating a “dangerous power imbalance.” I’ve witnessed all this and more during my time here.
Whether you see it as symptomatic of a poor English work ethic, or righteous indignation at unjust treatment, the fact is that senior management and the English workers have frequently clashed. Sources of contention have been extremely varied. Staff have taken issue with misogynistic and abusive language, the state of local facilities, and being frequently underpaid. At one point, there were more than 30 Brits here. But after just four weeks, with many unwilling to work under grim conditions for such low pay, we’re now down to five.
In the short term, the spectre of fresh fruit and vegetable shortages could well become reality. If growers fail to attract and retain vital British workers, as has been the case here, farms will lack the manpower to harvest their crops. Long-term prospects are equally stark. Currently, the vast majority of imported labour arrives in the UK under EU Freedom of Movement laws. Brexit looks set to bring an end to this.
Increased reliance on domestic labour seems inevitable. But if farms hope to weather Covid-19 by employing a substantial British workforce, they’ll need to change—starting with better pay, improved facilities and fairer treatment of staff. If farms prove too obdurate to adapt, Prince Charles may have to go without his strawberries this summer.
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Post by Gassy on Dec 20, 2020 9:59:25 GMT
Are you actually saying it’s Labours fault we don’t pick our own fruit & veg? Foreign fruit and veg pickers has been a thing since WW2... You’re actually suggesting that all the people who were on 80% of their salary on furlough, should give up that job and pay to pick fruit? No I'm not saying that Gassy. People who were furloughed on 80% of wages were quite entitled to assist with fruit/veg picking without it affecting their furlough income or employment....How many took it up to help.? People who were on benefits could have helped without it affecting their benefit income....How many took it up to help? How many people furloughed or on benefits decided their income was sufficient and couldn't be arsed to help out. Obviously too many otherwise we wouldn't have had to charter plane loads of pickers from eastern Europe during a pandemic. Didn’t realise that option was given to them by the government. Good idea tbf I generally wouldn’t expect those on furlough to have done it, let’s be honest - would any of us? I wouldn’t have. But if I was on benefits I probably would.
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Post by Gassy on Dec 20, 2020 10:01:21 GMT
You’re wasting your time Francegas. I’ve stopped commenting on here because you’re up against an anti-Brexit, anti- British cabal of left wing navel gazers who immediately gang up if you attempt to express or defend an opposing point of view. According to their warped logic, Britain licensing the Covid vaccine had absolutely nothing to do with the fact we had left the EU, that had absolutely no bearing on the fact we struck out on our own, without waiting for the European Medicine body to licence the product, it was pure coincidence, don’t you know. And finally, if you do manage to skewer them on an argument from which they can’t rescue themselves through insult, ridicule and obsfucation, they just go back through the posts and remove the ones that damage their argument. They’ve done it to me, that’s why I don’t bother anymore. Never mind, there’s only about 5 or 6 raving lefties in this little group and they’re happy just promoting their ridiculous agenda, agreeing with and slapping each other on the back at their collective cleverness. The important thing is, there’s 11 days to freedom day. Rejoice! Yeah Oldgas is back !! And he still doesn’t understand the procedure for emergency approval 😂 Been 3 weeks now and hasn’t bothered to educate himself still.
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Post by yattongas on Dec 20, 2020 10:21:31 GMT
Exactly! When the country was turned (by labour) into a benefit dependant state and people were better off on benefits than getting off their backsides and working is it any wonder. Look back earlier this year when workers were flown in from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and veg because people here couldn't be arsed to help. It was a case of I'm furloughed I'll take my 80% thanks very much !! You’re wasting your time Francegas. I’ve stopped commenting on here because you’re up against an anti-Brexit, anti- British cabal of left wing navel gazers who immediately gang up if you attempt to express or defend an opposing point of view. According to their warped logic, Britain licensing the Covid vaccine had absolutely nothing to do with the fact we had left the EU, that had absolutely no bearing on the fact we struck out on our own, without waiting for the European Medicine body to licence the product, it was pure coincidence, don’t you know. And finally, if you do manage to skewer them on an argument from which they can’t rescue themselves through insult, ridicule and obsfucation, they just go back through the posts and remove the ones that damage their argument. They’ve done it to me, that’s why I don’t bother anymore. Never mind, there’s only about 5 or 6 raving lefties in this little group and they’re happy just promoting their ridiculous agenda, agreeing with and slapping each other on the back at their collective cleverness. The important thing is, there’s 11 days to freedom day. Rejoice! That’s an awfully long winded way of saying You’ve comprehensively lost the arguments, had to scuttle off for a few weeks despite your claim you were sticking it to us “lefties” . 😂
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Post by oldgas on Dec 20, 2020 10:31:40 GMT
For decades, the UK’s agricultural industry has relied on migrant labour. Each year, an estimated 80,000 workers, primarily from Eastern Europe, come to harvest Britain’s fruit and veg. But this year, due to Covid-19 travel restrictions and ongoing uncertainties regarding Brexit, many would-be fruit pickers have been unable to make the trip. This has left a gaping hole in the agricultural workforce—one which British workers are expected to fill. On the 19th May, Environment Secretary George Eustice launched the official “Pick for Britain” campaign, encouraging the population to take up work on farms across the country. If it fails, the media’s bleak premonitions of “a disastrous situation” in which “mountains of food are left to rot” could find themselves realised. Signalling an intensification of the recruitment drive, last week the government wheeled out Prince Charles. Donning his humblest, most rumpled coat, in a video message he urged viewers to sign up. While acknowledging that the work would be “unglamorous and at times challenging,” Charles unashamedly evoked notions of national duty and that fabled “blitz spirit.” I’ve been working on a strawberry farm since mid-April. Like others, I wasn’t covered by the government’s furlough scheme and wanted to help the country in a time of crisis. But as I watched Charles’s broadcast from a blustery field, the gale pummelling at my caravan’s chipboard walls, I couldn’t help but feel that I knew something I shouldn’t. It was as if I’d taken a glance behind the curtain and, to my horror, found the machine. Before I continue, I must stress that it’s not all bad. In this isolated corner of the English countryside you’ll find a veritable mosaic of nationalities and cultures. The workforce of about 90 includes Romanians, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Moldovans and English. All are housed together on the farm’s caravan site and get on extremely well. The all-night Romanian discos, beers in the sun and games of football have been welcome respite from the monotony of lockdown. The English contingent are equally intriguing. We all arrived within the last month, inspired by the government’s calls to action. To commit to working on a farm with complete strangers for six months you have to be a certain kind of person—gregarious, adventurous and—whisper it—a bit odd. We’re a diverse bunch and this has allowed for the ludicrous brand of social alchemy normally reserved for reality television. Where else would you hear a window cleaner from Croydon debate the morality of bin-diving with a 40-year-old hippie and didgeridoo enthusiast? However, 5am starts and 10-hour shifts leave little time for socialising. Our weeks are dominated by work. And it’s tough. Really tough. Being bent over picking fruit for most of the day puts huge strain on your body. Perhaps this wouldn’t be a problem if we were adequately paid and properly housed. In reality, neither is true. The UK boasts the cheapest food in western Europe. My experience has made clear that this is only made possible through the neglect of employee welfare. For example, the notion that you can make good money through “piece work,” as has been asserted by both MPs and industry experts, is a fallacy. Unless you have significant prior experience, making anything above the minimum wage is highly unrealistic. After funds are deducted for rent and deposits, our salaries come to about £7 per hour. Furthermore, management’s conduct towards employees has been, at times, appalling. I’ve seen my colleagues berated, degraded and branded “stupid” by their superiors. The facilities are equally disappointing. Despite being in the throes of a deadly pandemic, the farm owner refuses to supply the bathrooms with hand soap. To save on bills, caravans aren’t hooked up to the mains. Consequently, they have no running water and can get perilously cold at night. We were assured that the caravans would be cleaned before our arrival. Instead, I found a cabin seething with mould and littered with mouse droppings. Mice make dreadful housemates. They are reclusive, dirty, and scarper whenever you suggest they put some money towards bills. Unfortunately, these issues are common. According to a 2018 report by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority (GLAA), labour exploitation is on the rise in the UK, and the agricultural industry is one of the worst offenders. As part of a project conducted by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA), researchers identified the most prevalent forms of labour exploitation. These included workers being paid less than promised, fees flowing back to the employer through rent, and reliance on an employer for everything, including food, creating a “dangerous power imbalance.” I’ve witnessed all this and more during my time here. Whether you see it as symptomatic of a poor English work ethic, or righteous indignation at unjust treatment, the fact is that senior management and the English workers have frequently clashed. Sources of contention have been extremely varied. Staff have taken issue with misogynistic and abusive language, the state of local facilities, and being frequently underpaid. At one point, there were more than 30 Brits here. But after just four weeks, with many unwilling to work under grim conditions for such low pay, we’re now down to five. In the short term, the spectre of fresh fruit and vegetable shortages could well become reality. If growers fail to attract and retain vital British workers, as has been the case here, farms will lack the manpower to harvest their crops. Long-term prospects are equally stark. Currently, the vast majority of imported labour arrives in the UK under EU Freedom of Movement laws. Brexit looks set to bring an end to this. Increased reliance on domestic labour seems inevitable. But if farms hope to weather Covid-19 by employing a substantial British workforce, they’ll need to change—starting with better pay, improved facilities and fairer treatment of staff. If farms prove too obdurate to adapt, Prince Charles may have to go without his strawberries this summer. I’m Long winded?
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