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Post by Officer Barbrady on Aug 1, 2018 21:24:32 GMT
My views on the EU when it comes to your medical care are not relevant. What is relevant is the quality and cost of imported drugs or equipment. The fact remains that there is no reciprocal agreement on quality standards with China, there is also no trade agreement. As such the latter may or may not cause import tariffs. I have not checked if that would be the case or not. Either way, may I take this opportunity to wish you well. Whether we have a conservative or labour government in place in future I would trust either to ensure any imported pharmaceutical products to be of the highest quality. If you want to believe differently because that supports your pro EU standpoint or because you think the world is at is was 40+ years ago then I don't think anything will change your mind. Thanks for your best wishes by the way but I'm doing fine on my current meds wherever they are from and I'm totally confident that I will be the same post brexit - unless I'm hung, drawn and quartered for being a thick, racist leave voter! I'm sure you will, as we do, draw a very large and distinct line between your views and those of Mr 3rd world scumbag over here. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 1, 2018 21:25:18 GMT
Lucky then that leave didn't tell any lies or get up to any underhand dealing during the campaign. Phew. Both sides exaggerated their case same as in any election campaign but does anything compare to telling the sick that once we leave their lives were at risk by either having no medication or having inferior quality? That to me is pretty sick and really ramping up project fear a notch or two. Not something I think we should make light of. Having followed the debate throughout the duration (I'm a bit of a politics junkie) I don't really recall this being brought up at the time so not sure it was used as a Remain tactic. Bringing this back down to the nuts and bolts, why did you vote Leave and has the interim period been what you expected? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 21:25:43 GMT
Both sides exaggerated their case same as in any election campaign but does anything compare to telling the sick that once we leave their lives were at risk by either having no medication or having inferior quality? That to me is pretty sick and really ramping up project fear a notch or two. Not something I think we should make light of. Agreed. So what would say to the families of haemophilliacs who died of HepC or other diseases as a result of imported blood products in to 70s and 80s. It was an over reaction? Why would I say it's an over reaction? What a stupid comment to throw out. Presumably based on an incident 40 years ago you would never do pharmaceutical trade with anyone outside of the EU and tar any country outside of the EU with the same brush even if they had no connection to your referred incident. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 21:30:43 GMT
Both sides exaggerated their case same as in any election campaign but does anything compare to telling the sick that once we leave their lives were at risk by either having no medication or having inferior quality? That to me is pretty sick and really ramping up project fear a notch or two. Not something I think we should make light of. It's so much worse than painting a massive big bus with a gigantic misleading cash sum that sick people thought would be spent on their care I suppose. Oh, wait. No it isnt. There is no moral high ground to be taken here I'm afraid. No I read the bus logo for what it meant and not what the twisted version spun by remain I.e if we didn't have to pay a massive tax to the EU every year that sum COULD be spent within out shores, SUCH AS on the NHS for example. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 1, 2018 21:34:37 GMT
Both sides exaggerated their case same as in any election campaign but does anything compare to telling the sick that once we leave their lives were at risk by either having no medication or having inferior quality? That to me is pretty sick and really ramping up project fear a notch or two. Not something I think we should make light of. Having followed the debate throughout the duration (I'm a bit of a politics junkie) I don't really recall this being brought up at the time so not sure it was used as a Remain tactic. Bringing this back down to the nuts and bolts, why did you vote Leave and has the interim period been what you expected? Ok, I will step forward and answer honestly. My main reason is because one day I would like to see a World Union or a United States of the World or *nerd alert* a Federation. Probably the unhinged old commie in me. The second reason is because I pretty much hate every Leave politician. Gove, Lord Snooty and that utter Dam cretin BoJo the clown. I could see that both sides were lying and fear mongering so I voted to retain the status quo. I have to say that for a long time I was genuinely undecided but it was the lying that made me vote for no change. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 1, 2018 21:36:19 GMT
It's so much worse than painting a massive big bus with a gigantic misleading cash sum that sick people thought would be spent on their care I suppose. Oh, wait. No it isnt. There is no moral high ground to be taken here I'm afraid. No I read the bus logo for what it meant and not what the twisted version spun by remain I.e if we didn't have to pay a massive tax to the EU every year that sum COULD be spent within out shores, SUCH AS on the NHS for example. Yes, you may have read it correctly but many did not and it was deliberately vague and misleading for a reason. |
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Post by aghast on Aug 1, 2018 21:37:20 GMT
It's so much worse than painting a massive big bus with a gigantic misleading cash sum that sick people thought would be spent on their care I suppose. Oh, wait. No it isnt. There is no moral high ground to be taken here I'm afraid. No I read the bus logo for what it meant and not what the twisted version spun by remain I.e if we didn't have to pay a massive tax to the EU every year that sum COULD be spent within out shores, SUCH AS on the NHS for example.  |
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 1, 2018 21:39:18 GMT
It's so much worse than painting a massive big bus with a gigantic misleading cash sum that sick people thought would be spent on their care I suppose. Oh, wait. No it isnt. There is no moral high ground to be taken here I'm afraid. No I read the bus logo for what it meant and not what the twisted version spun by remain I.e if we didn't have to pay a massive tax to the EU every year that sum COULD be spent within out shores, SUCH AS on the NHS for example. Why did they state the gross figure? Surely they weren't being disingenuous. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 21:46:13 GMT
Both sides exaggerated their case same as in any election campaign but does anything compare to telling the sick that once we leave their lives were at risk by either having no medication or having inferior quality? That to me is pretty sick and really ramping up project fear a notch or two. Not something I think we should make light of. Having followed the debate throughout the duration (I'm a bit of a politics junkie) I don't really recall this being brought up at the time so not sure it was used as a Remain tactic. Bringing this back down to the nuts and bolts, why did you vote Leave and has the interim period been what you expected? Voted leave as I never had the opportunity to vote when we joined the common market as wasn't born until 1974! If it was just still a trading group then I wouldn't have a problem. I dislike the gradual encroachment into to our everyday lives such as the European courts, open borders and having to subsidise other nations - whichever party is in power at any time should have complete control not subject to EU rules and controls. I've no issue with foreign nationals coming to the UK to work but don't see why we should discriminate against those from outside the EU. Is it so wrong to have control over who comes in based on what skills shortages we may have at any one time? My dislike of the EU has only grown since the vote. May has been weak but it must be tough trying to negotiate with the likes of Barnier when he just seems to reject virtually everything put forward. I see them as a pretty vile, corrupt organisation desperate not to see their empire fall - much like watching Blatter trying to save FIFA. I would love to see a full corruption investigation into to EU activities, I suspect FIFA would look small fry in comparison - did the EU ever agree to an independent audit? |
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Post by aghast on Aug 1, 2018 21:50:25 GMT
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Post by stuart1974 on Aug 1, 2018 22:04:06 GMT
Having followed the debate throughout the duration (I'm a bit of a politics junkie) I don't really recall this being brought up at the time so not sure it was used as a Remain tactic. Bringing this back down to the nuts and bolts, why did you vote Leave and has the interim period been what you expected? Voted leave as I never had the opportunity to vote when we joined the common market as wasn't born until 1974! If it was just still a trading group then I wouldn't have a problem. I dislike the gradual encroachment into to our everyday lives such as the European courts, open borders and having to subsidise other nations - whichever party is in power at any time should have complete control not subject to EU rules and controls. I've no issue with foreign nationals coming to the UK to work but don't see why we should discriminate against those from outside the EU. Is it so wrong to have control over who comes in based on what skills shortages we may have at any one time? My dislike of the EU has only grown since the vote. May has been weak but it must be tough trying to negotiate with the likes of Barnier when he just seems to reject virtually everything put forward. I see them as a pretty vile, corrupt organisation desperate not to see their empire fall - much like watching Blatter trying to save FIFA. I would love to see a full corruption investigation into to EU activities, I suspect FIFA would look small fry in comparison - did the EU ever agree to an independent audit? You're my age then, I think our age group was fairly split on the vote. I've asked this question before, but what have the ECJ done to adversely affect your day to day life? With regards to the EU negotiating position, they have 4 freedoms (free movement of labour, goods and so on). It was our choice to leave so they have no intention of changing. If they did Cameron would have got a better deal prior to the referendum. There is a difference in my view to being pro Europe and pro Brussels. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 22:09:03 GMT
Agreed. So what would say to the families of haemophilliacs who died of HepC or other diseases as a result of imported blood products in to 70s and 80s. It was an over reaction? Why would I say it's an over reaction? What a stupid comment to throw out. Presumably based on an incident 40 years ago you would never do pharmaceutical trade with anyone outside of the EU and tar any country outside of the EU with the same brush even if they had no connection to your referred incident. So never learn from history then |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 22:11:48 GMT
Voted leave as I never had the opportunity to vote when we joined the common market as wasn't born until 1974! If it was just still a trading group then I wouldn't have a problem. I dislike the gradual encroachment into to our everyday lives such as the European courts, open borders and having to subsidise other nations - whichever party is in power at any time should have complete control not subject to EU rules and controls. I've no issue with foreign nationals coming to the UK to work but don't see why we should discriminate against those from outside the EU. Is it so wrong to have control over who comes in based on what skills shortages we may have at any one time? My dislike of the EU has only grown since the vote. May has been weak but it must be tough trying to negotiate with the likes of Barnier when he just seems to reject virtually everything put forward. I see them as a pretty vile, corrupt organisation desperate not to see their empire fall - much like watching Blatter trying to save FIFA. I would love to see a full corruption investigation into to EU activities, I suspect FIFA would look small fry in comparison - did the EU ever agree to an independent audit? You're my age then, I think our age group was fairly split on the vote. I've asked this question before, but what have the ECJ done to adversely affect your day to day life? With regards to the EU negotiating position, they have 4 freedoms (free movement of labour, goods and so on). It was our choice to leave so they have no intention of changing. If they did Cameron would have got a better deal prior to the referendum. There is a difference in my view to being pro Europe and pro Brussels. That Stuart us a question I always ask. Exactly what law enforced by the ECJ has adversely affected you personally. Never have received an answer. |
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Post by jaggas on Aug 1, 2018 22:39:20 GMT
eric: the EU did agree to an audit and it was carried out by a group employed by the EU so in laymans terms the audit of the EU was carried out by the EU and surprise surprise everything was just fine and dandy...Oldie and the other EU fans were delighted as the EU is so perfect and we should be so thankful to the EU for enriching our lives allowing us to eat fly in planes give us medicine and make us safe while we pay the bills.
Oldie Hugo the Muppet Barbrady and the rest of the EU lovers will never be able to explain how the CAP or the CFP is good for the UK .They will never be able to make an argument about how receiving 30p for every pound we put into the EU makes financial sense nor will they try.
Today has been a good day, an injustice was overturned by a sensible judge And Tommy Robinson is free to go home to.his family.
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Post by jaggas on Aug 1, 2018 22:44:48 GMT
Why would I say it's an over reaction? What a stupid comment to throw out. Presumably based on an incident 40 years ago you would never do pharmaceutical trade with anyone outside of the EU and tar any country outside of the EU with the same brush even if they had no connection to your referred incident. So never learn from history then History tells us that the Germans need to dominate and rule Europe.They failed twice with military force and since they had their military might snuffed out they have tried and are succeeding in ruling and dominating Europe without having to fire a single bullet.....Do you not learn anything from history Oldie? |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 2, 2018 5:32:34 GMT
Not misleading at all then... |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 2, 2018 5:42:01 GMT
eric: the EU did agree to an audit and it was carried out by a group employed by the EU so in laymans terms the audit of the EU was carried out by the EU and surprise surprise everything was just fine and dandy...Oldie and the other EU fans were delighted as the EU is so perfect and we should be so thankful to the EU for enriching our lives allowing us to eat fly in planes give us medicine and make us safe while we pay the bills. Oldie Hugo the Muppet Barbrady and the rest of the EU lovers will never be able to explain how the CAP or the CFP is good for the UK .They will never be able to make an argument about how receiving 30p for every pound we put into the EU makes financial sense nor will they try. Today has been a good day, an injustice was overturned by a sensible judge And Tommy Robinson is free to go home to.his family. Ah yes, well known football hooligan, son of immigrants and owner of a shop that helps people make their skin brown. Lovely fellow. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 5:51:16 GMT
eric: the EU did agree to an audit and it was carried out by a group employed by the EU so in laymans terms the audit of the EU was carried out by the EU and surprise surprise everything was just fine and dandy...Oldie and the other EU fans were delighted as the EU is so perfect and we should be so thankful to the EU for enriching our lives allowing us to eat fly in planes give us medicine and make us safe while we pay the bills. Oldie Hugo the Muppet Barbrady and the rest of the EU lovers will never be able to explain how the CAP or the CFP is good for the UK .They will never be able to make an argument about how receiving 30p for every pound we put into the EU makes financial sense nor will they try. Today has been a good day, an injustice was overturned by a sensible judge And Tommy Robinson is free to go home to.his family. Ah yes, well known football hooligan, son of immigrants and owner of a shop that helps people make their skin brown. Lovely fellow. At least there is no doubting Jaggas's true colours is there. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 5:59:43 GMT
I'm sorry, but where have I made something up? Do you seriously believe unemployment figures are really accurate? Now you try deflection by comparing me to a 'Trump supporter'. Is that the best you can come up with? Really? Ok. So what you are suggesting is that all the statistics that come out from central government are untrue, not accurate. Now I accept a 1% here or there but nothing like enough to justify your very broad claim that immigrants come here to claim benefits to a degree which is statistically relevant. So pray tell, other than "down the pub" anecdotal stories, how do you justify ypur assertion? Serious question Wow, this is a prime example of why it is s difficult to debate issues in the UK, as you Oldie, have fallen into the same routine that ends up killing debate. I said the government figures on unemployment are not always 'correct'. In response, you assume, wrongly, that I do not believe any figures given out by the government. Why do you make that massive leap? Why do you even assume things like that? First off, unemployment figures. It is a well known, and proven fact, that successive government, from both sides, have 'massaged' the unemployment figures. They do this in an attempt to show that their economic policies are working. I remember a time, and I cannot remember which government it was, when anyone who was unemployed and on a government funded training course, were not classified as 'unemployed'. The result was that the unemployment figures were shown to be down. The reality of course, was that those people were still unemployed, but they didn't show up in the figures. Smoke and mirrors. Next, if someone has a different viewpoint to you, why do you always try to belittle the poster, and then you ignore the argument? Time and time again you throw out little slurs that are intended to deflect from the argument, and instead you try to put the emphasis on the posters? So now, my opinions are based on "down the pub" anecdotal stories are they? Why do you assume that you are so high and mighty and that others do not have the intellectual ability to form their own decisions? In this thread alone you have 'indicated' that those who have a differing opinion to yours are 'thick racists', 'Trump supporters', 'Sun readers', and now can only form opinions based on "down the pub anecdotal stories"! Stick to debating the issues, and not having sly digs eh! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2018 6:07:28 GMT
Yes I do have trust. I make that statement despite being on permanent medical treatment through eight weekly intravenous infusions and three other daily drugs so totally take this issue seriously and not use it as a political football. I have total belief that anything imported from outside your beloved EU will be of adequate standard. My sister in law is concerned (worried would be probably too strong at this stage). Not so much about quality, although controls need to be in place, but over supply and costs. She was a Type 1 diabetic for 40 years until a successful transplant, is a pharmacist and voted Leave. Stuart - The point Oldie is missing is that to sell any goods into any market, you have to meet the standards of that market. Therefore, any insulin produced by the US, China, India, Brazil or the Ukraine has to meet the same standards as the insulin produced in Denmark or Switzerland! The UK standards are the exact same standards as those in the EU, and they will still be the same after Brexit. As for supply and costs, I really don't think there will be a problem there. Supply? If countries in the EU decide not to supply the UK with insulin, then I am certain that the countries outside the EU will only be too happy to trade it with the UK. No International supplier will turn down a potential customer. As for costs, well, instead of being hamstrung by being dependent on only suppliers in the EU, we will now be able to go onto the world stage, and negotiate a cheaper deal as various countries will be in competition with each other. Competition brings down prices and can be a good thing for the customer. |
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