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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 30, 2018 15:45:08 GMT
The link wants cookie access, which I am not doing. Can you summarise? |
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Oct 30, 2018 15:52:22 GMT
The link wants cookie access, which I am not doing. Can you summarise?
Leave Lies? Remainers Need To Look In The Mirror
Recently, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, blamed the Brexit vote on 40 years of lies and the lies of 'Leave' campaigners. Juncker is correct in one sense, there were many lies during the EU Referendum campaign, however these lies were from the 'Remain' side. The so-called lies from Leavers are a figment of the federalist's imagination.
The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from 'Remain' campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words 'gross' and 'net' as well as the difference between the words 'could' and 'will'.
In reality the lies came from the 'Remain' campaign. European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted 'Leave'. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a 'Remain' lie.
David Cameron implied in a speech about the "serried rows of white headstones" that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.
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George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his 'punishment budget'. Despite Anna Soubry's claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is "quietly optimistic" about Brexit. Lie number four.
3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.
"A dangerous fantasy" is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage's claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I'm looking forward to Nick Clegg's next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.
We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.
David Cameron said he wouldn't resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.
The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are 'Remain' campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.
Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10
This is 10 of many lies spouted by the 'Remain' campaign during the EU referendum. It is about time us Brexiteers challenged this ridiculous narrative of leave lies and remain truths. We voted 'Leave' for control over the laws of this country, and the patronising suggestion we are gullible idiots is quite frankly ridiculous. Remain campaigners should look in the mirror if they want to find a liar. The sooner we Get Britain Out of the EU, the better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 15:52:23 GMT
You keep harping on about 'petty nationalist arguments'. Out of interest, just what on earth are you talking about? And, you are falling into that same boring trap of playing politics with Brexit by trying to blame the Tories. All three parties had a Referendum in their Manifestos. In the HoC, there was a huge vote in favour of holding the Referendum. I can't remember the exact figure, but it was something like 32-628 (or something like that). It was overwhelming. It's not a Tory Brexit. It's what the people voted for, in the largest turnout for any vote in the history of the UK. It's the fools who have turned the whole issue into a party issue that are hindering things. "So in essence the Tories made it all up in an attempt to sort out their internal strife." - Incorrect. Did Labour MP's vote in favour of a referendum to help out the Tories then did they? The referendum was called in an attempt to stop the flow of voters going to UKIP, from both Tory and Labour. The political elite were convinced they would win the referendum, and in doing so would end the constant EU arguments, and kill off UKIP in one fell swoop. It didn't go to plan did it ! Hi both I have enjoyed your thread very much as in microcosm it's a mirror image of the referendum with interesting points to stay or leave.I just wanted to add a couple of points: this is not a Tory Brexit it is the peoples Brexit, all the political party's have just hijacked the result to suit their own purpose. the labour party are fundamentally divided on Europe as the Tories both Corbyn and Mcdonnell have haTed the EU as they see it as undemocratic which it is, they have a united position nohw purely as an opportunity to defeat the Tories and hopefully win a general election . the petty nationalist jibe is pretty cheap, I have just retired as a Director of a major bank and I voted leave , not because I am a racist but because I want to see democratic decision making returned to the UK and because the ultimate direction of travel for the EU is a Federal state with All statutory powers residing with an unelected body in Brussels. Out of interest what democratic decision making did we, the UK, subjugate to the EU that you now want returned to the UK?? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 30, 2018 15:53:33 GMT
You keep harping on about 'petty nationalist arguments'. Out of interest, just what on earth are you talking about? And, you are falling into that same boring trap of playing politics with Brexit by trying to blame the Tories. All three parties had a Referendum in their Manifestos. In the HoC, there was a huge vote in favour of holding the Referendum. I can't remember the exact figure, but it was something like 32-628 (or something like that). It was overwhelming. It's not a Tory Brexit. It's what the people voted for, in the largest turnout for any vote in the history of the UK. It's the fools who have turned the whole issue into a party issue that are hindering things. "So in essence the Tories made it all up in an attempt to sort out their internal strife." - Incorrect. Did Labour MP's vote in favour of a referendum to help out the Tories then did they? The referendum was called in an attempt to stop the flow of voters going to UKIP, from both Tory and Labour. The political elite were convinced they would win the referendum, and in doing so would end the constant EU arguments, and kill off UKIP in one fell swoop. It didn't go to plan did it ! Hi both I have enjoyed your thread very much as in microcosm it's a mirror image of the referendum with interesting points to stay or leave.I just wanted to add a couple of points: this is not a Tory Brexit it is the peoples Brexit, all the political party's have just hijacked the result to suit their own purpose. the labour party are fundamentally divided on Europe as the Tories both Corbyn and Mcdonnell have haTed the EU as they see it as undemocratic which it is, they have a united position nohw purely as an opportunity to defeat the Tories and hopefully win a general election . the petty nationalist jibe is pretty cheap, I have just retired as a Director of a major bank and I voted leave , not because I am a racist but because I want to see democratic decision making returned to the UK and because the ultimate direction of travel for the EU is a Federal state with All statutory powers residing with an unelected body in Brussels. Glad you are joining in. I agree about Labour, I do disagree about a people's Brexit. If it was it wouldn't be a solely Conservative initiative bit a Parliamentary one and not beholden to either wing of the Conservative Party otherwise May would be negotiating differently. Nationalism does play a part, probably slight but it shouldn't be discounted either. As I pointed out in another post, the UK is just as unrepresentative as the EU on some levels so the 'democracy' aspect can be overplayed too. As for the direction of travel, we always had the right to opt out whilst retaining some leverage which we are now giving up. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 15:54:11 GMT
Blimey, I'm surprised the HuffPost printed that ! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 15:56:32 GMT
The link wants cookie access, which I am not doing. Can you summarise? I granted the cookie request as I read the Huff quite frequently. The article is just a blog, a statement of personal opinion. Adds no new facts to the debate, just the authors opinion. Trash really. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 16:00:20 GMT
The link wants cookie access, which I am not doing. Can you summarise? I granted the cookie request as I read the Huff quite frequently. The article is just a blog, a statement of personal opinion. Adds no new facts to the debate, just the authors opinion. Trash really. Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 16:09:37 GMT
I granted the cookie request as I read the Huff quite frequently. The article is just a blog, a statement of personal opinion. Adds no new facts to the debate, just the authors opinion. Trash really. Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... Like I said, we have that debate so many times. Best now to focus on the outcomes. Like Trevorgas wanting subjugated law to be repatriated. That's an outcome of interest, if he would only articulate exactly which ones he is talking about. |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 30, 2018 16:12:32 GMT
Hi both I have enjoyed your thread very much as in microcosm it's a mirror image of the referendum with interesting points to stay or leave.I just wanted to add a couple of points: this is not a Tory Brexit it is the peoples Brexit, all the political party's have just hijacked the result to suit their own purpose. the labour party are fundamentally divided on Europe as the Tories both Corbyn and Mcdonnell have haTed the EU as they see it as undemocratic which it is, they have a united position nohw purely as an opportunity to defeat the Tories and hopefully win a general election . the petty nationalist jibe is pretty cheap, I have just retired as a Director of a major bank and I voted leave , not because I am a racist but because I want to see democratic decision making returned to the UK and because the ultimate direction of travel for the EU is a Federal state with All statutory powers residing with an unelected body in Brussels. Glad you are joining in. I agree about Labour, I do disagree about a people's Brexit. If it was it wouldn't be a solely Conservative initiative bit a Parliamentary one and not beholden to either wing of the Conservative Party otherwise May would be negotiating differently. Nationalism does play a part, probably slight but it shouldn't be discounted either. As I pointed out in another post, the UK is just as unrepresentative as the EU on some levels so the 'democracy' aspect can be overplayed too. As for the direction of travel, we always had the right to opt out whilst retaining some leverage which we are now giving up. By a people's Brexit I mean it was a democratic vote, I agree the negotiations have been hijacked by various political factions when the best approach would have been a negotiating team drawn from across the political spectrum with a prior agreed position.However with our self serving politicians that was never going to happen ergo we are left with a half in half out proposition which helps no one. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 16:13:13 GMT
I granted the cookie request as I read the Huff quite frequently. The article is just a blog, a statement of personal opinion. Adds no new facts to the debate, just the authors opinion. Trash really. Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... Btw, what do you think of the Tories giving up on their budget strategy? This thread after all was about the budget. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 16:15:52 GMT
Glad you are joining in. I agree about Labour, I do disagree about a people's Brexit. If it was it wouldn't be a solely Conservative initiative bit a Parliamentary one and not beholden to either wing of the Conservative Party otherwise May would be negotiating differently. Nationalism does play a part, probably slight but it shouldn't be discounted either. As I pointed out in another post, the UK is just as unrepresentative as the EU on some levels so the 'democracy' aspect can be overplayed too. As for the direction of travel, we always had the right to opt out whilst retaining some leverage which we are now giving up. By a people's Brexit I mean it was a democratic vote, I agree the negotiations have been hijacked by various political factions when the best approach would have been a negotiating team drawn from across the political spectrum with a prior agreed position.However with our self serving politicians that was never going to happen ergo we are left with a half in half out proposition which helps no one. Good stuff Trevorgas. But as one of the key planks of your decision to vote leave was to repatriate laws subjugated to the EU, it would be a useful contribution to the debate if you articulated which laws you refer to?? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 16:39:06 GMT
Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... Btw, what do you think of the Tories giving up on their budget strategy? This thread after all was about the budget. That was a side step that Barry John would have been proud of! Oh well, another one of your main arguments bites the dust...again. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Oct 30, 2018 17:43:06 GMT
Btw, what do you think of the Tories giving up on their budget strategy? This thread after all was about the budget. That was a side step that Barry John would have been proud of! Oh well, another one of your main arguments bites the dust...again. Some details added to the Brexit thread. This should be for the budget debate. |
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Post by trevorgas on Oct 30, 2018 17:51:32 GMT
By a people's Brexit I mean it was a democratic vote, I agree the negotiations have been hijacked by various political factions when the best approach would have been a negotiating team drawn from across the political spectrum with a prior agreed position.However with our self serving politicians that was never going to happen ergo we are left with a half in half out proposition which helps no one. Good stuff Trevorgas. But as one of the key planks of your decision to vote leave was to repatriate laws subjugated to the EU, it would be a useful contribution to the debate if you articulated which laws you refer to?? I believe we have to be aware that all our current laws are subject to jurisdiction from the final court of appeal in Europe and as such any decision made by the court of appeal in Europe is framed into our existing case law,as such laws made in this country are reinterpreted in Europe in a court that is out of context with the culture and socio/economics of the UK and I believe that to be wrong |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 18:46:04 GMT
Good stuff Trevorgas. But as one of the key planks of your decision to vote leave was to repatriate laws subjugated to the EU, it would be a useful contribution to the debate if you articulated which laws you refer to?? I believe we have to be aware that all our current laws are subject to jurisdiction from the final court of appeal in Europe and as such any decision made by the court of appeal in Europe is framed into our existing case law,as such laws made in this country are reinterpreted in Europe in a court that is out of context with the culture and socio/economics of the UK and I believe that to be wrong I think you are making it up. Other than the common rule book and jurisdiction we have agreed, to cover trade disputes under the umbrella of our membership of the single market, the only court of appeal is the ECHR, which we were original signatories to in 1951, which OUR Parliament granted UK citizens to appeal to in 1964, and was subsequently embedded into UK law in 2004. This covers a very narrow group of four freedoms of the individual. Our legal constitution is defined here uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/5-636-2498?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&comp=pluk&bhcp=1Scroll down to clause 7 which defines the role of the ECHR. So are you seriously trying to tell me that an Act of Parliament, with subsequent legislation that our judiciary are obliged to judge upon, is subject to some nebulous higher court somewhere within the EU? Really? Where is this court? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 18:50:54 GMT
That was a side step that Barry John would have been proud of! Oh well, another one of your main arguments bites the dust...again. Some details added to the Brexit thread. This should be for the budget debate. Precisely |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 18:51:58 GMT
Back to budget.
Interesting response from the IFS and the teaching profession.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 30, 2018 21:15:02 GMT
I granted the cookie request as I read the Huff quite frequently. The article is just a blog, a statement of personal opinion. Adds no new facts to the debate, just the authors opinion. Trash really. Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... I'll list the lies from BOTH camps to save us all time. 1) Everything they said. 2) Trust me. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 21:55:00 GMT
Trash? Ha,ha....Go on then Oldie, list the lies from the Leave camp......... I'll list the lies from BOTH camps to save us all time. 1) Everything they said. 2) Trust me. Thank you Hugo Precisely. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 23:12:18 GMT
I'll list the lies from BOTH camps to save us all time. 1) Everything they said. 2) Trust me. Thank you Hugo Precisely. You still lost. I can feel your pain from here 😁 |
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