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Post by markczgas on Dec 17, 2018 14:18:36 GMT
They say stats never lie ! especially over a long period of time.
Paul Trollope's L1 record as manager was 157 games and 53 wins = 33.8 % win percentage Darrell Clarke L1 record as manager was 113 games and 38 wins = 33.6 % win percentage
Also very surprisingly, when Trollope was sacked in mid-December in 2010, Rovers record that season was P19: W 5, D 7 L 7. When Clarke left last week his record for the season was P21: W4, D5, L12.
DC certainly injected a lot of passion and as many say "we got our Rovers back" but he was far from our greatest manager.
For me Gerry Francis (statistically in L1 I'm sure but haven't checked) was by far the best and also had to lead the club at Twerton with much smaller crowds and far less financial support from the Rovers board then.
I'd love to check Holloway's record in L1 - got a feeling his win percentage might even be higher than DC and PT too !
Might do GF and IH's L1 record a bit later or maybe someone else might fancy it ?!
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Post by pucklegas on Dec 17, 2018 14:21:58 GMT
I love DC but a lot were in the conference and if you looked at the stats from Christmas last year it would make Ray Graydon look like pep šš
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Post by South Stand Ultra on Dec 17, 2018 14:24:08 GMT
They say stats never lie ! especially over a long period of time. Paul Trollope's L1 record as manager was 157 games and 53 wins = 33.8 % win percentage Darrell Clarke L1 record as manager was 113 games and 38 wins = 33.6 % win percentage Also very surprisingly, when Trollope was sacked in mid-December in 2010, Rovers record that season was P19: W 5, D 7 L 7. When Clarke left last week his record for the season was P21: W4, D5, L12. DC certainly injected a lot of passion and as many say "we got our Rovers back" but he was far from our greatest manager. For me Gerry Francis (statistically in L1 I'm sure but haven't checked) was by far the best and also had to lead the club at Twerton with much smaller crowds and far less financial support from the Rovers board then. I'd love to check Holloway's record in L1 - got a feeling his win percentage might even be higher than DC and PT too ! Might do GF and IH's L1 record a bit later or maybe someone else might fancy it ?! You can't just judge DC from his time in league 1, he also managed in two other league's. You have to judge him over his entire career, otherwise its like your doing a Stevek, and just putting stats that suit your argument.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 14:31:03 GMT
It's all relative. Could Trollope or Holloway have gotten us out of the conference?
One thing we can say with reasonable confidence is that DC is not yet the complete league one manager. There are question marks over his ability to sign players that can compete at this level.
I hope he goes away and proves that he can do it at another club as I really hope we see him back at Rovers in a few years.
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Post by mehewmagic on Dec 17, 2018 14:38:28 GMT
They say stats never lie ! especially over a long period of time. Paul Trollope's L1 record as manager was 157 games and 53 wins = 33.8 % win percentage Darrell Clarke L1 record as manager was 113 games and 38 wins = 33.6 % win percentage Also very surprisingly, when Trollope was sacked in mid-December in 2010, Rovers record that season was P19: W 5, D 7 L 7. When Clarke left last week his record for the season was P21: W4, D5, L12. DC certainly injected a lot of passion and as many say "we got our Rovers back" but he was far from our greatest manager. For me Gerry Francis (statistically in L1 I'm sure but haven't checked) was by far the best and also had to lead the club at Twerton with much smaller crowds and far less financial support from the Rovers board then. I'd love to check Holloway's record in L1 - got a feeling his win percentage might even be higher than DC and PT too ! Might do GF and IH's L1 record a bit later or maybe someone else might fancy it ?!
Seems a bit churlish to be doing this now though, don't you think?
Football was also very different in GF's days. In fact, what are the chances now of having an intelligent former England captain come to a struggling Lge 1 club without a ground and awful training facilities? Had avoided relegation on the final day of the season before. Chances are zero.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 14:41:33 GMT
DC is the closest any manager has come to Francis for me, the squad unity and his man management are on a par, but he has yet to achieve what Gerry has in management, i hope he does but have my doubts. Still i look forward to the day our paths cross and i can shake his hand again and thank him.
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Post by neilv93 on Dec 17, 2018 14:59:08 GMT
It's all relative. Could Trollope or Holloway have gotten us out of the conference? One thing we can say with reasonable confidence is that DC is not yet the complete league one manager. There are question marks over his ability to sign players that can compete at this level. I hope he goes away and proves that he can do it at another club as I really hope we see him back at Rovers in a few years. Likewise. Could see him taking over a team towards the bottom of L2 (Cambridge?) or top of Conference (Wrexham?) and doing well again. Hope he does, deserves it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 15:00:55 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count.
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Post by titchthephot on Dec 17, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
Surely the question marks are over the attitude of some of the players he signed? His ability to sign good players must be recognised ; Taylor, Bodin, Sercombe, Sinclair (maybe not the most talented but did an awful lot for Rovers passion)..... The signings that haven't worked.. Payne (was top scorer at Shrewsbury), Nichols, okay, no goal scorer but he tries his hardest. Harrison was on his way out into the wilderness until DC got hold of him and turned his attitude and career around. So yes, maybe some of his signings have been duff (name a manager who hasn't ..just look at Mourinio!!) but he also has to rely on his scouts. They are as much to blame for bringing players to the club. Stats are okay but they don't take into consideration how much money certain clubs put into the player budget, how much the game has sped up and changed over the past few years and stats are just a guide to the past not an indication of the future. DC was not perfect but I still believe he was the best thing that happened to Rovers for many, many years.
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Post by markczgas on Dec 17, 2018 15:15:54 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count. Charming ! Will give myself a slap on the wrists for sharing some stats with fellow Gasheads. or What a load of Quantocks mate
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Post by toobluee on Dec 17, 2018 15:22:38 GMT
Oh dear, you'll upset people like this...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 15:30:03 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count. Charming ! Will give myself a slap on the wrists for sharing some stats with fellow Gasheads.Ā or What a load of Quantocks mateĀ Touchy! You must read in an aggressive manor thatās all I will say. š
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Post by Gassy on Dec 17, 2018 15:35:44 GMT
Stats here aren't important tbh (within reason).
If DC took us to the championship and we just survived by the skin of our teeth each season, the stats would be like 10% win rate which would look crap, but in reality its excellent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 15:41:14 GMT
Charming ! Will give myself a slap on the wrists for sharing some stats with fellow Gasheads.Ā or What a load of Quantocks mateĀ Touchy! You must read in an aggressive manor thatās all I will say. [br
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 15:47:51 GMT
Stats here aren't important tbh (within reason). If DC took us to the championship and we just survived by the skin of our teeth each season, the stats would be like 10% win rate which would look crap, but in reality its excellent. 26% of all statistics are pointless.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 15:48:45 GMT
Surely the question marks are over the attitude of some of the players he signed? His ability to sign good players must be recognised ; Taylor, Bodin, Sercombe, Sinclair (maybe not the most talented but did an awful lot for Rovers passion)..... The signings that haven't worked.. Payne (was top scorer at Shrewsbury), Nichols, okay, no goal scorer but he tries his hardest. Harrison was on his way out into the wilderness until DC got hold of him and turned his attitude and career around. So yes, maybe some of his signings have been duff (name a manager who hasn't ..just look at Mourinio!!) but he also has to rely on his scouts. They are as much to blame for bringing players to the club. Stats are okay but they don't take into consideration how much money certain clubs put into the player budget, how much the game has sped up and changed over the past few years and stats are just a guide to the past not an indication of the future. DC was not perfect but I still believe he was the best thing that happened to Rovers for many, many years. It is pretty stark though that his better signings were all at conference/league one level. One possible interpretation is that we perhaps had a bigger budget for the level we were in prior to league one so were able to attract better players than our rivals, also perhaps there is something to be said that DC's main skill- motivation, becomes less relevant the further up the league he goes because you transition from "honest pros" who are trying to make use of what talent they have vs players who have been knocking on the door of the championship for a while and need a more nuanced message than giving 100% and getting stuck in.
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Post by justin blue on Dec 17, 2018 16:00:15 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count. Calm down no need to bring the saviors name into this, or Jesus for that matter.
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 17, 2018 16:45:17 GMT
They say stats never lie ! especially over a long period of time. Paul Trollope's L1 record as manager was 157 games and 53 wins = 33.8 % win percentage Darrell Clarke L1 record as manager was 113 games and 38 wins = 33.6 % win percentage Also very surprisingly, when Trollope was sacked in mid-December in 2010, Rovers record that season was P19: W 5, D 7 L 7. When Clarke left last week his record for the season was P21: W4, D5, L12. DC certainly injected a lot of passion and as many say "we got our Rovers back" but he was far from our greatest manager. For me Gerry Francis (statistically in L1 I'm sure but haven't checked) was by far the best and also had to lead the club at Twerton with much smaller crowds and far less financial support from the Rovers board then. I'd love to check Holloway's record in L1 - got a feeling his win percentage might even be higher than DC and PT too ! Might do GF and IH's L1 record a bit later or maybe someone else might fancy it ?!
Seems a bit churlish to be doing this now though, don't you think?
Football was also very different in GF's days. In fact, what are the chances now of having an intelligent former England captain come to a struggling Lge 1 club without a ground and awful training facilities? Had avoided relegation on the final day of the season before. Chances are zero.
Correct mm. Blimey I hope we donāt have a slow descend into thinking DC wasnāt that special. I hope we donāt start to question what he did so that by the end of the season his reputation has been spoiled. GF nor Ollie managed Rovers when we as bad as we were when DC came. As you say a different age and time. Clubs and their facilities have overtaken us in the nearly 20 years since. Yet DC managed to get us to mid table League 1, our traditional place imo, from a low starting point. DC was special, he took over and couldnāt save us but he took us back up and achieved another promotion. He moulded a very special group of players into a strong team with great resilience. His teams usually attacked and he was never afraid to change things in the opening 30 minutes if he thought heād got things wrong initially. He developed a very thick skin in the late summer of ā14 when things started slowly but developed and built a winning mentality even when we didnāt play well. He created a bond with the fans that very few managers had done and certain players should say thank you to him for their careers. His man-management skills were very good as told by Lee Brown and I have no doubt he saved my club. Was he perfect? Of course he wasnāt. He was still learning how to manage as he grew as a League 1 manager. He could do the recruitment himself with a few trusted colleagues in the Conference and League 2 but in League 1 that was an area that the club has really struggled with and last Summer we were caught out and DC has paid the price. That recruitment may have got us some good players on paper, Iām not sure they were the right characters to fit in and the parallels with 2010-11 are worryingly similar. He still needed to learn, imo, how to use the loan market better. Iām afraid his reluctance to play loans may have caused clubs to be uncertain about loaning better players who need game time. His constant changes seemed to work at times but when we werenāt playing well the changes just didnāt work. But overall, the man saved our club. Had we not gone straight back up I fear we could be preparing to play Weston Super Mare and not Fleetwood this week. 4 years ago if someone had said āin 2018 you will be struggling to stay in League 1ā we would have bitten their hands off for it to be the case. That the recent 12 months havenāt been the best is a real shame but I still feel that we should have given DC the same loyalty that he gave us in the Summer 2016. But heās gone now and we need to get behind whoever is appointed. I just hope we donāt let DCs legacy to be rubbed away by those who did not rate him. I appreciate that statistics and facts might show him not to be the best manager statistically but he was the most important and best manager when we really needed someone to save us. But sure others will disagree. UTG!
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Post by warehamgas on Dec 17, 2018 16:53:23 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count. Charming ! Will give myself a slap on the wrists for sharing some stats with fellow Gasheads. or What a load of Quantocks mate Markczgas, thanks for the stats. My long post above was certainly not aimed at you. I appreciate the stats you gave and the time but replied hoping that posters wonāt devalue what DC has done because in the context of where we were at the time his stats in those two promotion seasons were more important to the club than most. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 17:22:37 GMT
Jesus, let it go. Clarkeās gone. Two promotions, one top ten finish in League one, in just four and a half seasons as Rovers manager. They are the stats which count. Calm down no need to bring the saviors name into this, or Jesus for that matter. Calm down? I couldnāt be any calmer if I tried.š
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