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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2019 19:18:50 GMT
Well my first answer is slightly flippant because I don't remember if the wonga loan was secured or not (i.e. like your mortgage is secured against your home in the way a credit card debt isn't) but the bottom line really is yes they could. A secured lender can force a sale regardless of the value of the asset. It's a bit more difficult for an unsecured lender but not impossible. The first step would be applying for an order of the court to have the debt secured against the asset, in this case the Mem - the court has to make that order if the lender can show the debt is outstanding. Basically not being able to pay a debt of that nature is seriously scary stuff regardless of the equity locked up in the land. Even if MSP had gone as far as issuing a winding up order finding £2.4m(?) would not have been out of the question, why would NH & co risk losing an "investment" worth around £6m when the debt was less than 50%, you sense somebody somewhere would have bailed us out, perhaps even BCC. Our problem now is £15m is a totally unmanageable debt if the ALQ's decide they don't want to spend any more time or money on a Div 2 side if we do succumb to relegation come May. As far as being in a better position if we do get relegated I sense we'll be in exactly the same position we were in when the ALQ's took over, with a bit of tarting up the Mem having cost the club around £10m in additional debts on the balance sheet. Sorry, mate but with your track record on numbers I'll stick to my opinion on this one. Everything you've just said is pure supposition. The fact is if Higgs or any of the others had the money the bridging finance wouldn't have been needed in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 20:08:25 GMT
Ah okay, IIRC another poster used the logic that creditors couldnt lay claim to the stadium because the wonga debt did not get near exceeding the value of the stadium. Could administrators still lay claim to the stadium in that instance then? Well my first answer is slightly flippant because I don't remember if the wonga loan was secured or not (i.e. like your mortgage is secured against your home in the way a credit card debt isn't) but the bottom line really is yes they could. A secured lender can force a sale regardless of the value of the asset. It's a bit more difficult for an unsecured lender but not impossible. The first step would be applying for an order of the court to have the debt secured against the asset, in this case the Mem - the court has to make that order if the lender can show the debt is outstanding. Basically not being able to pay a debt of that nature is seriously scary stuff regardless of the equity locked up in the land. Ah fair enough in that case I revise my opinion somewhat, it sounds more immediately desperate than owing 12 odd mill to a banking family! That isn't to say our current predicament is ideal though. It seems we still have our ground potentially at risk under either set of incumbents, just the current debt at least is being serviced but we have no guarantee/idea of for how long. As a Rovers supporter the more things change the more they stay the same...
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2019 20:15:23 GMT
Well my first answer is slightly flippant because I don't remember if the wonga loan was secured or not (i.e. like your mortgage is secured against your home in the way a credit card debt isn't) but the bottom line really is yes they could. A secured lender can force a sale regardless of the value of the asset. It's a bit more difficult for an unsecured lender but not impossible. The first step would be applying for an order of the court to have the debt secured against the asset, in this case the Mem - the court has to make that order if the lender can show the debt is outstanding. Basically not being able to pay a debt of that nature is seriously scary stuff regardless of the equity locked up in the land. Ah fair enough in that case I revise my opinion somewhat, it sounds more immediately desperate than owing 12 odd mill to a banking family! That isn't to say our current predicament is ideal though. It seems we still have our ground potentially at risk under either set of incumbents, just the current debt at least is being serviced but we have no guarantee/idea of for how long. As a Rovers supporter the more things change the more they stay the same... I think there in lays the issue. We were f**ked under Higgs and now we are a different kind of f**ked under the AQs. Again as long as the family keep us afloat we are ok and possibly better off. One thing I would like to know as a proper fact and not a Gaschat fact is what are our current debts to the family? It started off as the 2.5M they paid and seems to be that up to £15M depending on who is telling what story. I've no doubt it's more but surely we haven't amassed £10M+ losses in 2 years!!??
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 22, 2019 20:16:32 GMT
Even if MSP had gone as far as issuing a winding up order finding £2.4m(?) would not have been out of the question, why would NH & co risk losing an "investment" worth around £6m when the debt was less than 50%, you sense somebody somewhere would have bailed us out, perhaps even BCC. Our problem now is £15m is a totally unmanageable debt if the ALQ's decide they don't want to spend any more time or money on a Div 2 side if we do succumb to relegation come May. As far as being in a better position if we do get relegated I sense we'll be in exactly the same position we were in when the ALQ's took over, with a bit of tarting up the Mem having cost the club around £10m in additional debts on the balance sheet. Sorry, mate but with your track record on numbers I'll stick to my opinion on this one. Everything you've just said is pure supposition. The fact is if Higgs or any of the others had the money the bridging finance wouldn't have been needed in the first place. As I said somebody somewhere would have most likely bailed us out if NH & co couldn't/wouldn't out a league club hasn't gone bust for years, now we're firmly in the hands of foreign owners who's decision maker apparently doesn't even like football.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2019 20:19:25 GMT
Sorry, mate but with your track record on numbers I'll stick to my opinion on this one. Everything you've just said is pure supposition. The fact is if Higgs or any of the others had the money the bridging finance wouldn't have been needed in the first place. As I said somebody somewhere would have most likely bailed us out if NH & co couldn't/wouldn't out a league club hasn't gone bust for years, now we're firmly in the hands of foreign owners who's decision maker apparently doesn't even like football. Or..... The family ARE the people NH and Co found to bail us out.... So maybe deserve a little more respect. Question them by all means, but maybe be a little less rude about it.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 22, 2019 20:25:39 GMT
As I said somebody somewhere would have most likely bailed us out if NH & co couldn't/wouldn't out a league club hasn't gone bust for years, now we're firmly in the hands of foreign owners who's decision maker apparently doesn't even like football. Or..... The family ARE the people NH and Co found to bail us out.... So maybe deserve a little more respect. Question them by all means, but maybe be a little less rude about it. What's rude, Jordan is a foreign county and Hani's admitted he doesn't like football? Although it Wael communicated with us with the ALQ's plans for the future then perhaps we wouldn't have these endless threads just going around in circles.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 22, 2019 20:53:45 GMT
Or..... The family ARE the people NH and Co found to bail us out.... So maybe deserve a little more respect. Question them by all means, but maybe be a little less rude about it. What's rude, Jordan is a foreign county and Hani's admitted he doesn't like football? Although it Wael communicated with us with the ALQ's plans for the future then perhaps we wouldn't have these endless threads just going around in circles. Not aimed at you, but some of the other posters here of late.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 21:00:33 GMT
What's rude, Jordan is a foreign county and Hani's admitted he doesn't like football? Although it Wael communicated with us with the ALQ's plans for the future then perhaps we wouldn't have these endless threads just going around in circles. Not aimed at you, but some of the other posters here of late. Oh no. Has Marshy been posting pictures of his man bits again?
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Post by hungdrawnandquarters on Jan 22, 2019 21:05:10 GMT
Or..... The family ARE the people NH and Co found to bail us out.... So maybe deserve a little more respect. Question them by all means, but maybe be a little less rude about it. What's rude, Jordan is a foreign county and Hani's admitted he doesn't like football? Although it Wael communicated with us with the ALQ's plans for the future then perhaps we wouldn't have these endless threads just going around in circles. Let's face it they are not interested in spending any money, whether they have it or not. I think they were completely naieve when they went into football club ownership, didn't realise that you can't make money out of a league one/two club, if you want to make football pay then you have to speculate to accumulate, and you still might not succeed. They're from Jordan they have no link to Bristol or the club, they probably didn't even know where Bristol was until they bought our club. I find it so ironic how a couple of years ago people couldn't praise "Wael" enough, people on here talking about him as if he was a good bloke from down the pub they always have a chat with. Buying our club is was just a big vanity project/rich man's train set for Mr AQ, except it turns out he's only got enough money to buy a bit of track let alone any trains! I honestly think they thought Darrell would magically get us to the premier League by signing loads of ex Salisbury players on free transfers, got us to league one I guess though, lol. Now it's definitely time for them to f**k off, invest in camel racing or something instead (that's probably a bit racist if me) but nah I'm not racist I just don't like people who are arrogant enough to think that money gives them the right to ride roughshod over whatever they like and pick things up and throw them out as they please. The Al Qadis - the biggest bunch of tits from Jordan.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 21:48:32 GMT
Ah fair enough in that case I revise my opinion somewhat, it sounds more immediately desperate than owing 12 odd mill to a banking family! That isn't to say our current predicament is ideal though. It seems we still have our ground potentially at risk under either set of incumbents, just the current debt at least is being serviced but we have no guarantee/idea of for how long. As a Rovers supporter the more things change the more they stay the same... I think there in lays the issue. We were f**ked under Higgs and now we are a different kind of f**ked under the AQs. Again as long as the family keep us afloat we are ok and possibly better off. One thing I would like to know as a proper fact and not a Gaschat fact is what are our current debts to the family? It started off as the 2.5M they paid and seems to be that up to £15M depending on who is telling what story. I've no doubt it's more but surely we haven't amassed £10M+ losses in 2 years!!?? As a finger in the air guess, I would say about 8 million based on 1 mill a year losses and 5 million to buy the previous owners out? How much was the training ground land? That needs throwing in too. Oh and 1 mill written off on the UWE apparently
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Post by LJG on Jan 22, 2019 21:48:35 GMT
Sorry, mate but with your track record on numbers I'll stick to my opinion on this one. Everything you've just said is pure supposition. The fact is if Higgs or any of the others had the money the bridging finance wouldn't have been needed in the first place. As I said somebody somewhere would have most likely bailed us out if NH & co couldn't/wouldn't out a league club hasn't gone bust for years, now we're firmly in the hands of foreign owners who's decision maker apparently doesn't even like football. Someone did bail us out. They now own the club. What is it you don't understand about the difference between debt to a high interest commercial lender and debt to an internal connected party? Presumably you'd rather have a credit card with a 30% interest rate than owe money to your dad?
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Post by Big Jock on Jan 22, 2019 21:55:23 GMT
I think th Al Qadis do deserve our respect.
Like in lots of things in life its so fucckin easy to criticise others. FWIW i think they are trying hard ta progress th club - their club.
And imo jes like players, they all has off days where it all fuccks up but ya don't become a professional footballer by not trying, it takes fucckin years of hard work an dedication, th likes of which most of us wouldn't rise to.
So, unless yous got any real proof th owners or th players aren't interested or are harming th club on purpose we should all give em th benefit of th doubt.
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Post by swissgas on Jan 22, 2019 22:20:58 GMT
I think there in lays the issue. We were f**ked under Higgs and now we are a different kind of f**ked under the AQs. Again as long as the family keep us afloat we are ok and possibly better off. One thing I would like to know as a proper fact and not a Gaschat fact is what are our current debts to the family? It started off as the 2.5M they paid and seems to be that up to £15M depending on who is telling what story. I've no doubt it's more but surely we haven't amassed £10M+ losses in 2 years!!?? As a finger in the air guess, I would say about 8 million based on 1 mill a year losses and 5 million to buy the previous owners out? How much was the training ground land? That needs throwing in too. Oh and 1 mill written off on the UWE apparently At 30th June 2017, according to the accounts, the amount owed to Dwane Sports was £8.6 million. During that year £1.4 million had been injected so if the same amount was put in during the following twelve months the loan would stand at £10 million, plus a further £0.7 million paid to the former shareholders, making a total of £ 10.7 million owing to Dwane Sports at 30th June 2018. If the trend continues the loan will be standing at just over £12 million in June this year. And Dwane Colony Ltd purchased the land at Almondsbury for £1.1 million.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 0:37:32 GMT
As a finger in the air guess, I would say about 8 million based on 1 mill a year losses and 5 million to buy the previous owners out? How much was the training ground land? That needs throwing in too. Oh and 1 mill written off on the UWE apparently At 30th June 2017, according to the accounts, the amount owed to Dwane Sports was £8.6 million. During that year £1.4 million had been injected so if the same amount was put in during the following twelve months the loan would stand at £10 million, plus a further £0.7 million paid to the former shareholders, making a total of £ 10.7 million owing to Dwane Sports at 30th June 2018. If the trend continues the loan will be standing at just over £12 million in June this year. And Dwane Colony Ltd purchased the land at Almondsbury for £1.1 million. Ah I wasn't too far off then. But I recall you saying that the property developer cost of the Memorial land is some 15 million...so it sounds like we are starting to approach squeaky bum time if your projections for this year are correct. Are DS really going to carry on servicing debt after the 15 million equity has been exhausted? If their wealth is some 60 million then BRFC could prove to be quite a thorn in their portfolio unless they get shot ASAP.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:02:06 GMT
What will all the haters and the negative agenda gang say when the owners simply carry on running the club after the debt exceeds the value of the mem? Or better still the debt is reduced and never exceeds its value?
For me the motivation of the haters with an agenda is more suspicious than the doubts about the motivation of the owners.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:03:07 GMT
What's rude, Jordan is a foreign county and Hani's admitted he doesn't like football? Although it Wael communicated with us with the ALQ's plans for the future then perhaps we wouldn't have these endless threads just going around in circles. Let's face it they are not interested in spending any money, whether they have it or not. I think they were completely naieve when they went into football club ownership, didn't realise that you can't make money out of a league one/two club, if you want to make football pay then you have to speculate to accumulate, and you still might not succeed. They're from Jordan they have no link to Bristol or the club, they probably didn't even know where Bristol was until they bought our club. I find it so ironic how a couple of years ago people couldn't praise "Wael" enough, people on here talking about him as if he was a good bloke from down the pub they always have a chat with. Buying our club is was just a big vanity project/rich man's train set for Mr AQ, except it turns out he's only got enough money to buy a bit of track let alone any trains! I honestly think they thought Darrell would magically get us to the premier League by signing loads of ex Salisbury players on free transfers, got us to league one I guess though, lol. Now it's definitely time for them to f**k off, invest in camel racing or something instead (that's probably a bit racist if me) but nah I'm not racist I just don't like people who are arrogant enough to think that money gives them the right to ride roughshod over whatever they like and pick things up and throw them out as they please. The Al Qadis - the biggest bunch of tits from Jordan. Actually you are a racist.
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Post by Gastafari on Jan 23, 2019 1:24:12 GMT
Let's face it they are not interested in spending any money, whether they have it or not. I think they were completely naieve when they went into football club ownership, didn't realise that you can't make money out of a league one/two club, if you want to make football pay then you have to speculate to accumulate, and you still might not succeed. They're from Jordan they have no link to Bristol or the club, they probably didn't even know where Bristol was until they bought our club. I find it so ironic how a couple of years ago people couldn't praise "Wael" enough, people on here talking about him as if he was a good bloke from down the pub they always have a chat with. Buying our club is was just a big vanity project/rich man's train set for Mr AQ, except it turns out he's only got enough money to buy a bit of track let alone any trains! I honestly think they thought Darrell would magically get us to the premier League by signing loads of ex Salisbury players on free transfers, got us to league one I guess though, lol. Now it's definitely time for them to f**k off, invest in camel racing or something instead (that's probably a bit racist if me) but nah I'm not racist I just don't like people who are arrogant enough to think that money gives them the right to ride roughshod over whatever they like and pick things up and throw them out as they please. The Al Qadis - the biggest bunch of tits from Jordan. Actually you are a racist. Eh? He didn't say anything racist whatsoever. Your comment was completely uncalled for.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 7:09:58 GMT
Actually you are a racist. Eh? He didn't say anything racist whatsoever. Your comment was completely uncalled for. I totally agree. There was nothing racist in that post. Whether you agree with the post or not, there was no racism involved.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jan 23, 2019 7:26:18 GMT
Eh? He didn't say anything racist whatsoever. Your comment was completely uncalled for. I totally agree. There was nothing racist in that post. Whether you agree with the post or not, there was no racism involved. The constant reference to camels and fake sheikhs is not needed to make the same point though is it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 7:28:53 GMT
I totally agree. There was nothing racist in that post. Whether you agree with the post or not, there was no racism involved. The constant reference to camels and fake sheikhs is not needed to make the same point though is it? You may not like the wording Hugo, but c'mon, there was nothing racist there. Let's not throw common sense out of the window.
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