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Post by neilv93 on Mar 19, 2019 9:53:08 GMT
Can't quite work out why he said (para): "subscribe to PewDiePie" before going in. Mental. Always live streaming it makes it even more sick. Truly horrific act. Apparently pewedipie was the most watched you tube channel for years but was knocked off of top spot by an asian music channel hence subscribe I guess that makes some kind of weird, twisted, sick sense.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 19, 2019 10:17:52 GMT
That wasn't the point being made. Stu if your referencing the post by e4 then yes that religion is mentioned on the 2nd line in brackets i'm suprised you missed it. Not aimed at you but i can never work out why people never seem to digest a post and seem to miss these things yest may be in brackets but it's there I didn't miss it, it was referring to similarities of which religion is one factor, the post also referenced others so to extrapolate one defining factor wasn't clear. The post referred specifically to immigration from the middle east.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 19, 2019 10:22:00 GMT
Is it just me or is this deliberate baiting of each other getting tedious? Time to draw a line and get back to the substance of the topic. Problem is stu if you keep belittling people then those people will strike back ,if there's no provacation then there's no need to act tis simply human nature. Yep, works both ways which is why I took offence to another at times. It's just a forum, make your point and step back. Hopefully we are starting afresh.
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Post by inee on Mar 19, 2019 11:05:29 GMT
Stu if your referencing the post by e4 then yes that religion is mentioned on the 2nd line in brackets i'm suprised you missed it. Not aimed at you but i can never work out why people never seem to digest a post and seem to miss these things yest may be in brackets but it's there I didn't miss it, it was referring to similarities of which religion is one factor, the post also referenced others so to extrapolate one defining factor wasn't clear. The post referred specifically to immigration from the middle east. Indeed it did ,if you take the whole post or even just the first bit ,the reference to religion is there directly after the part in brackets that mentions similar ways of life ,then mentions the middle east different values laws etc ,so like i said in my mind it couldn't be clearer. He then goes on to say we need to forge closer links with our commonwealth partners which is exactly what needs to be done,(also others like retired Gurkhas) ,yes i know someone will come along and say oh its a different debate ,however everything is interlinked ,look at it another way people who have no link to us in anyway shape or form ,who want to ignore our laws and bring in their own version of law ,some indeed do practise this in communities across the world which they have moved to. At the same time the Windrush generation who worked their arses off over here get sh** on
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Post by inee on Mar 19, 2019 12:09:29 GMT
I don't recall the Dunblane or Hungerford massacres being related to immigration or different cultures here in the UK. Or the Birmingham or Guilford pub bombings. I do recall a very small number of religious fanatics in the UK shooting, bombing and mowing down people on bridges. I also see that gun laws in New Zealand are amongst the most liberal in the English-speaking countries. I read a lot about "mass immigration", whatever that means, or is covertly supposed to mean, being used as the cause of terrorism, and the reason for the inevitable breakdown of society and our descent into total chaos. This must be a bit confusing for Mr Ahmed, as he sells you your Daily Telegraph, Mr Ozturk, as he ladles your chilli sauce on your Friday kebab, Dr Patel, as she delivers your first child, and Mr Kowalski, as he finishes your new central heating system. All stereotypes, but I didn't start it. Birmingham ,Guilford ,Park Street ,Aldershot etc ,Carried out by irish immigrants from a known terrorist organisation who refuse to accept British rule(oh religion again) Westminster bridge oh yes religion again Religion of peace Lockerbie oh yes religion again Religion of peace.(you forgot that one for some reason) Dunblane police fault as he should never have been granted a gun licence ,several indicators as to why from a wpc were ignored by the copper issuing the licence Hungerford see above again police at fault. Call it stereotyping if you wish but 3 are terrorist related and 2 are not.(before you lot start i'm not in anyway shape or form trying to justify the 2 cu nt above, merely pointing out the difference). Interesting choice of names as one(possibly 2) are from the religion of peace ,one from a religion that hasn't committed terrorist actions in the uk) ,one possibly polish which has something like .1% of the population from the religion of piece and have never had a terrorist incident from the religion of piece i wonder why. Also very interesting how your post highlights where the current terrorist threat comes from
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Post by inee on Mar 19, 2019 12:26:37 GMT
I don't recall the Dunblane or Hungerford massacres being related to immigration or different cultures here in the UK. Or the Birmingham or Guilford pub bombings. I do recall a very small number of religious fanatics in the UK shooting, bombing and mowing down people on bridges. I also see that gun laws in New Zealand are amongst the most liberal in the English-speaking countries. I read a lot about "mass immigration", whatever that means, or is covertly supposed to mean, being used as the cause of terrorism, and the reason for the inevitable breakdown of society and our descent into total chaos. This must be a bit confusing for Mr Ahmed, as he sells you your Daily Telegraph, Mr Ozturk, as he ladles your chilli sauce on your Friday kebab, Dr Patel, as she delivers your first child, and Mr Kowalski, as he finishes your new central heating system. All stereotypes, but I didn't start it. Birmingham ,Guilford ,Park Street ,Aldershot etc ,Carried out by irish immigrants from a known terrorist organisation who refuse to accept British rule(oh religion again) Westminster bridge oh yes religion again Religion of peace Lockerbie oh yes religion again Religion of peace.(you forgot that one for some reason) Dunblane police fault as he should never have been granted a gun licence ,several indicators as to why from a wpc were ignored by the copper issuing the licence Hungerford see above again police at fault. Call it stereotyping if you wish but 3 are terrorist related and 2 are not.(before you lot start i'm not in anyway shape or form trying to justify the 2 cu nt above, merely pointing out the difference). Interesting choice of names as one(possibly 2) are from the religion of peace ,one from a religion that hasn't committed terrorist actions in the uk) ,one possibly polish which has something like .1% of the population from the religion of piece and have never had a terrorist incident from the religion of piece i wonder why. Also very interesting how your post highlights where the current terrorist threat comes from Forgot to finish before posting. Gun control is an emotive subject however don't forget guns don't kill ,people kill people (yes i am aware some firearms have miss-fired and killed their operator but it wasn't a conscious decision made by the fire arm). look at the uk pistols and repeat firing (automatic weapons) were wrongly banned, as there are more firearms on the streets now than there were then (the fumiest part of the ban is some weapons handed in found their way to the streets). Looking at it banning certain firearms has had the opposite effect to that misguidedly intended , i suspect New Zealand will have a massive knee jerk reaction to firearms with out thinking it through as if somebody wants a firearm then they will get one even if there are none in the country (even building your own automatic is easy for anyone who can use a hacksaw and files etc). There are still stashes of Lee Enfileds ,Brens ,grenades and ammo buried and useable in this country stashes from ww2 that lay forgotten. As stated people seem to forget that if someones going to do something they will ,for some reason everyone jumps on the anti gun bandwagon without thinking here things through.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 12:58:04 GMT
Birmingham ,Guilford ,Park Street ,Aldershot etc ,Carried out by irish immigrants from a known terrorist organisation who refuse to accept British rule(oh religion again) Westminster bridge oh yes religion again Religion of peace Lockerbie oh yes religion again Religion of peace.(you forgot that one for some reason) Dunblane police fault as he should never have been granted a gun licence ,several indicators as to why from a wpc were ignored by the copper issuing the licence Hungerford see above again police at fault. Call it stereotyping if you wish but 3 are terrorist related and 2 are not.(before you lot start i'm not in anyway shape or form trying to justify the 2 cu nt above, merely pointing out the difference). Interesting choice of names as one(possibly 2) are from the religion of peace ,one from a religion that hasn't committed terrorist actions in the uk) ,one possibly polish which has something like .1% of the population from the religion of piece and have never had a terrorist incident from the religion of piece i wonder why. Also very interesting how your post highlights where the current terrorist threat comes from Forgot to finish before posting. Gun control is an emotive subject however don't forget guns don't kill ,people kill people (yes i am aware some firearms have miss-fired and killed their operator but it wasn't a conscious decision made by the fire arm). look at the uk pistols and repeat firing (automatic weapons) were wrongly banned, as there are more firearms on the streets now than there were then (the fumiest part of the ban is some weapons handed in found their way to the streets). Looking at it banning certain firearms has had the opposite effect to that misguidedly intended , i suspect New Zealand will have a massive knee jerk reaction to firearms with out thinking it through as if somebody wants a firearm then they will get one even if there are none in the country (even building your own automatic is easy for anyone who can use a hacksaw and files etc). There are still stashes of Lee Enfileds ,Brens ,grenades and ammo buried and useable in this country stashes from ww2 that lay forgotten. As stated people seem to forget that if someones going to do something they will ,for some reason everyone jumps on the anti gun bandwagon without thinking here things through. It is also worth pointing out, and I think I am correct in saying this, but the country with the largest amount of weapons per head of population (outside of any war zone) is Switzerland. There has been the odd gun incident there, but nothing on the scale we've seen elsewhere. Is this evidence that it is not the actual weapons that are the problem, but the fact there are fecking crazy people in the world?
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 19, 2019 12:58:16 GMT
Birmingham ,Guilford ,Park Street ,Aldershot etc ,Carried out by irish immigrants from a known terrorist organisation who refuse to accept British rule(oh religion again) Westminster bridge oh yes religion again Religion of peace Lockerbie oh yes religion again Religion of peace.(you forgot that one for some reason) Dunblane police fault as he should never have been granted a gun licence ,several indicators as to why from a wpc were ignored by the copper issuing the licence Hungerford see above again police at fault. Call it stereotyping if you wish but 3 are terrorist related and 2 are not.(before you lot start i'm not in anyway shape or form trying to justify the 2 cu nt above, merely pointing out the difference). Interesting choice of names as one(possibly 2) are from the religion of peace ,one from a religion that hasn't committed terrorist actions in the uk) ,one possibly polish which has something like .1% of the population from the religion of piece and have never had a terrorist incident from the religion of piece i wonder why. Also very interesting how your post highlights where the current terrorist threat comes from Forgot to finish before posting. Gun control is an emotive subject however don't forget guns don't kill ,people kill people (yes i am aware some firearms have miss-fired and killed their operator but it wasn't a conscious decision made by the fire arm). look at the uk pistols and repeat firing (automatic weapons) were wrongly banned, as there are more firearms on the streets now than there were then (the fumiest part of the ban is some weapons handed in found their way to the streets). Looking at it banning certain firearms has had the opposite effect to that misguidedly intended , i suspect New Zealand will have a massive knee jerk reaction to firearms with out thinking it through as if somebody wants a firearm then they will get one even if there are none in the country (even building your own automatic is easy for anyone who can use a hacksaw and files etc). There are still stashes of Lee Enfileds ,Brens ,grenades and ammo buried and useable in this country stashes from ww2 that lay forgotten. As stated people seem to forget that if someones going to do something they will ,for some reason everyone jumps on the anti gun bandwagon without thinking here things through. What is your point though? Of course guns kill people. People with guns kill people. Try with your strongest arm throwing a bullet at someone you wish to kill.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:55:47 GMT
Forgot to finish before posting. Gun control is an emotive subject however don't forget guns don't kill ,people kill people (yes i am aware some firearms have miss-fired and killed their operator but it wasn't a conscious decision made by the fire arm). look at the uk pistols and repeat firing (automatic weapons) were wrongly banned, as there are more firearms on the streets now than there were then (the fumiest part of the ban is some weapons handed in found their way to the streets). Looking at it banning certain firearms has had the opposite effect to that misguidedly intended , i suspect New Zealand will have a massive knee jerk reaction to firearms with out thinking it through as if somebody wants a firearm then they will get one even if there are none in the country (even building your own automatic is easy for anyone who can use a hacksaw and files etc). There are still stashes of Lee Enfileds ,Brens ,grenades and ammo buried and useable in this country stashes from ww2 that lay forgotten. As stated people seem to forget that if someones going to do something they will ,for some reason everyone jumps on the anti gun bandwagon without thinking here things through. What is your point though? Of course guns kill people. People with guns kill people. Try with your strongest arm throwing a bullet at someone you wish to kill. Read this thread and despair. Bizarre justifications, at best
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Post by yaz on Apr 2, 2019 1:45:03 GMT
I know it just seems to get worse. White nutters, Islamic nutters what do we do? Lower the threshold for terror related convictions. Even a sniff of extremism should result in a life sentence - that's the only way to guarantee an individual cannot carry out an attack. About time we (and other countries) started putting the law abiding general public ahead of this type of scum. There will obviously be some that slip under the radar but more often than not the perpetrators will have come to the attention of security forces or other agencies in the past. A sniff of extremism? What does that mean? Ever hear of Guantanamo? Where innocent British citizens were being tortured for years and the UK government did what? There are many extremists in this country, of all types and not just political. Is a football hooligan a terrorist; is he likely to have far right views? Have you ever been to an away ground and been terrified? slightly? A sniff of? How many Israeli supporters who are Britush citizens go to live in illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza and in some cases have dual nationality and therefore serve in the IDF Israeli Defence Forces upholding the bullying and subjugation of Palestinians. Are they terrorists? What is a terrorist? Or who? A famous South African once said “A freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist” or vice-versa. If you want to seriously stop terrorists, stop funding them in Syria, Oman, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc. If you want to prevent terrorism, stop invading and bombing other countries without any genuine reason / premise? Stop supporting countries that do so. When did Syria ever attack the UK? If you want petrodollars and want to sell your weapons, don’t complain when they are used against you?
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Post by yaz on Apr 2, 2019 2:03:11 GMT
What marks us out from insane killers and fascist regimes? Due process and the rule of law. Summary killing belittles us. Revenge is not justice, justice is not mob rule. Careful people. Is that why the US had a hit list of 50 people they wanted killed and would pay bounties for if done? Did Osama get a trial? Did Sadaam get a trial? Did Che Guevara get a trial before being executed on the orders of the CIA? What crime did he commit? Whenever another country or individual “opposes” the US, there is never any talk other than revenge. Guantanamo showed this. The US will always strike back at anyone they see as a threat, legitimate or not. The Bolivian President recently made a superb speech on US and Trump policy - interesting listening. Nelson Mandela showed the opposite way in South Africa wrt the pardoning of white apartheid racists. Guilty before proven in court? Remember - wherever the US invades or supports, there will always be a US base there afterwards. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 6:10:05 GMT
What marks us out from insane killers and fascist regimes? Due process and the rule of law. Summary killing belittles us. Revenge is not justice, justice is not mob rule. Careful people. Is that why the US had a hit list of 50 people they wanted killed and would pay bounties for if done? Did Osama get a trial? Did Sadaam get a trial? Did Che Guevara get a trial before being executed on the orders of the CIA? What crime did he commit? Whenever another country or individual “opposes” the US, there is never any talk other than revenge. Guantanamo showed this. The US will always strike back at anyone they see as a threat, legitimate or not. The Bolivian President recently made a superb speech on US and Trump policy - interesting listening. Nelson Mandela showed the opposite way in South Africa wrt the pardoning of white apartheid racists. Guilty before proven in court?Remember - wherever the US invades or supports, there will always be a US base there afterwards. Why? Under the European Arrest Warrant, yes ! British Law states that you are innocent until proven guilty. This is now overridden by the EU Law, which is based on the Napoleonic system of being guilty until proven innocent.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2019 7:51:31 GMT
Is that why the US had a hit list of 50 people they wanted killed and would pay bounties for if done? Did Osama get a trial? Did Sadaam get a trial? Did Che Guevara get a trial before being executed on the orders of the CIA? What crime did he commit? Whenever another country or individual “opposes” the US, there is never any talk other than revenge. Guantanamo showed this. The US will always strike back at anyone they see as a threat, legitimate or not. The Bolivian President recently made a superb speech on US and Trump policy - interesting listening. Nelson Mandela showed the opposite way in South Africa wrt the pardoning of white apartheid racists. Guilty before proven in court?Remember - wherever the US invades or supports, there will always be a US base there afterwards. Why? Under the European Arrest Warrant, yes ! British Law states that you are innocent until proven guilty. This is now overridden by the EU Law, which is based on the Napoleonic system of being guilty until proven innocent. When did that happen?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 11:45:33 GMT
Under the European Arrest Warrant, yes ! British Law states that you are innocent until proven guilty. This is now overridden by the EU Law, which is based on the Napoleonic system of being guilty until proven innocent. When did that happen? I was unaware that this had happened. Anyone?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 12:14:20 GMT
Under the European Arrest Warrant, yes ! British Law states that you are innocent until proven guilty. This is now overridden by the EU Law, which is based on the Napoleonic system of being guilty until proven innocent. When did that happen? "Criticisms of the European Arrest Warrant For all the genuine criminals extradited, there are occasional horror stories. British teenager Andrew Symeou was extradited to Greece in 2009, charged with killing a man in a nightclub in Zakynthos. He spent nearly a year in a Greek jail – considered among Europe’s worst – before his case was eventually thrown out for flawed evidence. Cases like this undermine what the EU calls the “mutual trust” allowing member states to extradite their citizens. The European Commission published a green paper in 2011 urging alternative measures to pre-trial detention. It cites the right to “trial within a reasonable time” (Art. 5.3) in the European Convention on Human Rights as well as the Council of Europe’s European Prison Rules." What did Nick Clegg say? "The case is notable for highlighting the problems with the European Arrest Warrant and how it operates. Ex Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg publicly stated; "No-one should ever have to go through what Andrew and the Symeou family went through. It was a travesty that they were made to suffer so much for so long. His case showed that there were real problems with the way the EAW was operating and that things needed to change as a result." Andrew Symeou
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2019 14:13:56 GMT
"Criticisms of the European Arrest Warrant For all the genuine criminals extradited, there are occasional horror stories. British teenager Andrew Symeou was extradited to Greece in 2009, charged with killing a man in a nightclub in Zakynthos. He spent nearly a year in a Greek jail – considered among Europe’s worst – before his case was eventually thrown out for flawed evidence. Cases like this undermine what the EU calls the “mutual trust” allowing member states to extradite their citizens. The European Commission published a green paper in 2011 urging alternative measures to pre-trial detention. It cites the right to “trial within a reasonable time” (Art. 5.3) in the European Convention on Human Rights as well as the Council of Europe’s European Prison Rules." What did Nick Clegg say? "The case is notable for highlighting the problems with the European Arrest Warrant and how it operates. Ex Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg publicly stated; "No-one should ever have to go through what Andrew and the Symeou family went through. It was a travesty that they were made to suffer so much for so long. His case showed that there were real problems with the way the EAW was operating and that things needed to change as a result." Andrew Symeou So not overriding the innocent until proven guilty assumption, then, which is also contrary to ECHR.
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Post by peterparker on Apr 10, 2019 10:07:42 GMT
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Post by aghast on Apr 10, 2019 22:23:21 GMT
It beggars belief that a prosperous educated country like New Zealand should even be debating the legal rights and wrongs of civilians owning semi-automatic rifles.
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