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Post by Henbury Gas on May 17, 2019 13:18:00 GMT
The Snake was spotted near the mem today, must be our first signing - Source Baggy's ball bag
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 13:25:14 GMT
1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. 1. He may have been prepared to move but no guarantee he would have. He is not an item off a shelf, or perhaps a slave would be a better description, that we can just flog to the highest bidder. If only one or two bids came in and he fancied neither he would have sat tight and waited until he was a free agent and the market of potential new clubs suddenly opens up. 2. He obviously isn't guaranteed the fee a club would have received if he was under contract. Quite clearly there will be more interested parties for a free agent and his agent will be far better to placed to negotiate a sizeable signing on fee or larger than expected wages when his client is a free agent.1. 1. So what's more likely? A or B? a. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. Tom is now unsure as he want's to make clear to Bristol Rovers that he isn't a slave, nor an item off the shelf. In fact, actually he isn't interested in taking more money or playing in a higher division, despite already wanting to leave the club for exactly those reasons and will instead slog away in a L1 relegation fight and could even have found himself relegated to L2, where his value would have dropped massively. In addition to that, he will know that the Bristol Rovers aren't interested in him as much as they were as they're just trying to get money out of him. Most likely more offers will come in January again. b. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. A bit comes in. Rovers accept it. Tom accepts the opportunity to increase his salary and/or move higher up the pyramid
The point I'm getting at is why wouldn't he have wanted to leave? Your scenario is beyond clutching at straws. Gaffney went to the conference! My understanding is that (rumour) Ellis didn't want to leave, but a bid came in he wasn't going to turn down the opportunity to earn more money & play in a higher division. 2. Agreed, we're saying the same point. But ultimately the new club's saving of a transfer fee on TL is our loss.
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Post by mehewmagic on May 17, 2019 13:27:31 GMT
But we could only sell Locks if he was prepared to move rather than just run down his contract. No idea how it works for free agents but I assume some of the £500K+ we would have got as a transfer fee will now go to Locks instead. 1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. Not really true. Most players, at all levels, will get a signing on fee, be it £50 or £2m. If a club hasn't paid a transfer fee or compo then agents and players will expect a slice of the savings pie. 🥧🥧🥧
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Post by Henbury Gas on May 17, 2019 13:30:55 GMT
1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. Not really true. Most players, at all levels, will get a signing on fee, be it £50 or £2m. If a club hasn't paid a transfer fee or compo then agents and players will expect a slice of the savings pie. 🥧🥧🥧 Don't they get 10% minimum of the whole deal as a one off payment, so if his wages are £1m over 3 years he will get £100,000 "signing on" Fee ?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on May 17, 2019 13:33:20 GMT
1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. Not really true. Most players, at all levels, will get a signing on fee, be it £50 or £2m. If a club hasn't paid a transfer fee or compo then agents and players will expect a slice of the savings pie. 🥧🥧🥧 Yeah, if you're worth a million quid to a team as a transfer, if it's a free, then that million (or most of it) will find its way into the player's wages or signing on fee, other fees, and wherever. It's not just free money the other team makes. That wouldn't make any sense. A player would never let their contract run down if there was never any incentive.
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Marshy
Proper Gas
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Post by Marshy on May 17, 2019 13:35:05 GMT
The Snake was spotted near the mem today, must be our first signing - Source Baggy's ball bag What a load of old bollocks that is!
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 13:39:07 GMT
1. He was prepared to move. He said to in his interview. 2. I don't think any of the money would go to him at all, it just makes him more attractive to other clubs. Their saving is our loss. Not really true. Most players, at all levels, will get a signing on fee, be it £50 or £2m. If a club hasn't paid a transfer fee or compo then agents and players will expect a slice of the savings pie. 🥧🥧🥧 Sorry, I didn't clarify in my response to Topper. I more meant that if he's worth 500k, he wouldn't get 500k as a signing bonus. As you mentioned though, I'm sure he would get a higher signing fee though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:57:33 GMT
1. He may have been prepared to move but no guarantee he would have. He is not an item off a shelf, or perhaps a slave would be a better description, that we can just flog to the highest bidder. If only one or two bids came in and he fancied neither he would have sat tight and waited until he was a free agent and the market of potential new clubs suddenly opens up. 2. He obviously isn't guaranteed the fee a club would have received if he was under contract. Quite clearly there will be more interested parties for a free agent and his agent will be far better to placed to negotiate a sizeable signing on fee or larger than expected wages when his client is a free agent.1. 1. So what's more likely? A or B? a. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. Tom is now unsure as he want's to make clear to Bristol Rovers that he isn't a slave, nor an item off the shelf. In fact, actually he isn't interested in taking more money or playing in a higher division, despite already wanting to leave the club for exactly those reasons and will instead slog away in a L1 relegation fight and could even have found himself relegated to L2, where his value would have dropped massively. In addition to that, he will know that the Bristol Rovers aren't interested in him as much as they were as they're just trying to get money out of him. Most likely more offers will come in January again. b. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. A bit comes in. Rovers accept it. Tom accepts the opportunity to increase his salary and/or move higher up the pyramid
The point I'm getting at is why wouldn't he have wanted to leave? Your scenario is beyond clutching at straws. Gaffney went to the conference! My understanding is that (rumour) Ellis didn't want to leave, but a bid came in he wasn't going to turn down the opportunity to earn more money & play in a higher division. 2. Agreed, we're saying the same point. But ultimately the new club's saving of a transfer fee on TL is our loss. I don't think my point was clutching at straws at all. Put most simply a player will have far more offers and those offers are likely to be more lucrative when he becomes, or moves close to becoming a free agent. The club may well decide to market a player for offers but if none of the offers suit that player, whether for career progression or financial reasons, then he is quite right to stand his ground. This stupid phrase of a club "should just sell someone" is ridiculous and cannot happen without the players agreement. Gaffney almost certainly had different motivation to Lockyer. Lockyer will be mainly voted by career progression (which will obviously have a beneficial ecomomic knock on) as opposed to Gaffers who moved entirely for more money not for his career which is obvious given the drop in two divisions.
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Post by neilv93 on May 17, 2019 14:02:00 GMT
The Snake was spotted near the mem today, must be our first signing - Source Baggy's ball bag But... WYHHB??? (I would but don't tell anyone)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:03:50 GMT
Listened really late as i work until 10pm and really enjoyed the program. Really nice what the lads said about dc as well as marcus and steve yates. The 3 players were a big part of a fantastic period of recovery from the depths of despair and i wish all of them the very best in life and football. Its all tinged with sadness for me because i believe we could have got into the championship and built on a really good team with a bit more commitment from the top of the club. But that's how rovers have always been so hey-ho. Translating to 'I think the owners should have gambled significant amounts of their own money to put us in a position where we are even more unsustainable' Let's be honest, that team was a long way being Championship quality. I dont agree at all,in our first season back in league one we were close to the play-offs and had tremendous momentum and a winning mentality throughout the club and the fan base. For whatever reason that momentum was not built on by the owners and we have been going backwards ever since that initial league one season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:41:59 GMT
Translating to 'I think the owners should have gambled significant amounts of their own money to put us in a position where we are even more unsustainable' Let's be honest, that team was a long way being Championship quality. I dont agree at all,in our first season back in league one we were close to the play-offs and had tremendous momentum and a winning mentality throughout the club and the fan base. For whatever reason that momentum was not built on by the owners and we have been going backwards ever since that initial league one season. I agree, that was a wave that even a man of limited surfing talents would have caught. Not saying we would have barrel rolled like the bloke in the Davoidoff after shave advert but it was certainly a missed opportunity. Looking back t the earlier thread by Baggins brings it all back. In the space of four years our hopes have been raised dramatically, maybe its my own fault for expecting more but i really thought we were going places.
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Post by Topper Gas on May 17, 2019 14:45:59 GMT
Translating to 'I think the owners should have gambled significant amounts of their own money to put us in a position where we are even more unsustainable' Let's be honest, that team was a long way being Championship quality. I dont agree at all,in our first season back in league one we were close to the play-offs and had tremendous momentum and a winning mentality throughout the club and the fan base. For whatever reason that momentum was not built on by the owners and we have been going backwards ever since that initial league one season. Perhaps the owners and management felt we weren't ready for the Championship, if we had done a Luton that season we would have basically gone up with a Conference/Div 2 side. I'm not sure any of us would have enjoyed us getting beaten every single week.
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 14:46:02 GMT
1. So what's more likely? A or B? a. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. Tom is now unsure as he want's to make clear to Bristol Rovers that he isn't a slave, nor an item off the shelf. In fact, actually he isn't interested in taking more money or playing in a higher division, despite already wanting to leave the club for exactly those reasons and will instead slog away in a L1 relegation fight and could even have found himself relegated to L2, where his value would have dropped massively. In addition to that, he will know that the Bristol Rovers aren't interested in him as much as they were as they're just trying to get money out of him. Most likely more offers will come in January again. b. As TL want's to leave at the end of the season for football higher up, we've put him for sale to get some money. A bit comes in. Rovers accept it. Tom accepts the opportunity to increase his salary and/or move higher up the pyramid
The point I'm getting at is why wouldn't he have wanted to leave? Your scenario is beyond clutching at straws. Gaffney went to the conference! My understanding is that (rumour) Ellis didn't want to leave, but a bid came in he wasn't going to turn down the opportunity to earn more money & play in a higher division. 2. Agreed, we're saying the same point. But ultimately the new club's saving of a transfer fee on TL is our loss. I don't think my point was clutching at straws at all. Put most simply a player will have far more offers and those offers are likely to be more lucrative when he becomes, or moves close to becoming a free agent. The club may well decide to market a player for offers but if none of the offers suit that player, whether for career progression or financial reasons, then he is quite right to stand his ground. This stupid phrase of a club "should just sell someone" is ridiculous and cannot happen without the players agreement. Gaffney almost certainly had different motivation to Lockyer. Lockyer will be mainly voted by career progression (which will obviously have a beneficial ecomomic knock on) as opposed to Gaffers who moved entirely for more money not for his career which is obvious given the drop in two divisions. Think we will have to agree to disagree fella. IMO if a championship offer came in for TL last summer and we accepted it, there isn’t a chance in hell he would turn it down.
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Post by South Stand Ultra on May 17, 2019 14:46:55 GMT
The Snake was spotted near the mem today, must be our first signing - Source Baggy's ball bag But... WYHHB??? (I would but don't tell anyone) I would, but he'd never come back. Not in a billion years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:48:59 GMT
I don't think my point was clutching at straws at all. Put most simply a player will have far more offers and those offers are likely to be more lucrative when he becomes, or moves close to becoming a free agent. The club may well decide to market a player for offers but if none of the offers suit that player, whether for career progression or financial reasons, then he is quite right to stand his ground. This stupid phrase of a club "should just sell someone" is ridiculous and cannot happen without the players agreement. Gaffney almost certainly had different motivation to Lockyer. Lockyer will be mainly voted by career progression (which will obviously have a beneficial ecomomic knock on) as opposed to Gaffers who moved entirely for more money not for his career which is obvious given the drop in two divisions. Think we will have to agree to disagree fella. IMO if a championship offer came in for TL last summer and we accepted it, there isn’t a chance in hell he would turn it down. Not if it was a team in a location he disliked, little/no pay rise and bookies odds on favourites for relegation?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:51:10 GMT
But... WYHHB??? (I would but don't tell anyone) I would, but he'd never come back. Not in a billion years. Especially when some of our morons revealed his home address and threatened him! I reckon there would be 90 more league clubs likely to get him ahead of us if he did become available.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:57:05 GMT
Translating to 'I think the owners should have gambled significant amounts of their own money to put us in a position where we are even more unsustainable' Let's be honest, that team was a long way being Championship quality. I dont agree at all,in our first season back in league one we were close to the play-offs and had tremendous momentum and a winning mentality throughout the club and the fan base. For whatever reason that momentum was not built on by the owners and we have been going backwards ever since that initial league one season. Let's talk specifics. What should the owners have done exactly?
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Post by Gassy on May 17, 2019 15:04:05 GMT
Think we will have to agree to disagree fella. IMO if a championship offer came in for TL last summer and we accepted it, there isn’t a chance in hell he would turn it down. Not if it was a team in a location he disliked, little/no pay rise and bookies odds on favourites for relegation? There isn’t a single championship club that wouldn’t give TL a pay rise Even if the team ended up going down, they’d be going right back up again. He said in his interview he was debating whether top L1 or lower championship so I doubt he’d have to really wonder about it tbh
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Post by completewingback on May 17, 2019 16:42:05 GMT
- 200+ appearances for us - Under John Ward, was thrown into the deep end as LB and CM and even managed to score a couple of goals despite being 100% a CB - Stuck with the team in the Conference while other youth players (see Alefe Santos for instance) were happy to leave - Played for most of the Conference season as a RB - Won two promotions with us - Captain at a young age - Whether he was our best defender or not, no one can say he was lazy or didn't put in the effort for us. Miss Kenneth, Branston, etc? - Played for us 24 hours after representing Wales
Then: - Endured Nick Higgs' tenure until WAQ and Co. came around promising the world - Saw his best mates and the main assets of the club be sold by peanuts and not be properly replaced - Budget constraints - Training ground didn't happen - UWE didn't happen - Board has no plan - Team starts losing - Fans pick him amongst a few as scapegoat - Darrell Clarke, the man who gave him so much, is ultimately put under fire by a desperate board and is made into a scapegoat - New gaffer comes in and starts picking fights with established club members - Club isn't going anywhere
I certainly don't blame him for wanting to leave, especially after Ryan Giggs, of all people, tells you to. He must love Rovers but he loves his country more I assume, and staying with us wouldn't help grow his career at all tbh.
You all can certainly be angry at him leaving for $0 and have your opinions over his passing and distribution etc but most of the rest sounds a bit overreactive IMO. Not to mention basing said opinions on quotes taken out of the context of the interview. Love him or hate him, Lockyer gave us more than most players these last 5 years and he certainly deserves better for his career.
And life goes on for us too, so I hope I won't be reading "HAHA LOOK LOCKYER SLIPPED ON A BANANA AND FELL !!!" threads 6 months for now while we're battling in League One.
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Post by markczgas on May 17, 2019 16:45:38 GMT
Does anyone think Lockyer improved as the season went on ? And also that this might have been because he played alongside the very consistent Tony Craig in all those games ?
I'm not certain a Champ club will take him and more likely it'll be a promotion aspiring league 1 club like Coventry or Pompey.
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