Fruit Market OFF - Club redeveloping Mem instead.

1981, a reasoned and literate argument as ever and I agree with some of that but there’s a large amount of very selective stuff from the POV which leaves WAQ with a huge way out of his responsibilities. 
1. Your assertion that we weren’t ready for a new stadium from a marketing and commercial pov really is silly. Had the stadium been built at any time the then-owners would have had to move fast to catch up but they would have I’m sure. Yes, the rapid appointment of staff to deal with it would be needed.  But they would have had time because whatever stadium that comes will not come quickly, a 2/3 year lead in so plenty of time to sort some of that stuff out. To suggest that only WAQ could do this is hugely disrespectful to others and is also probably wrong given the track record over the past 6 years. And to suggest WAQ has all the answers when the capacity problems at the moment and ‘tent-international at the Mem’ show me that all he’s doing is papering over the cracks. For clarity I’m hopeful that in time he will be able to source a ground and this is not a dig at him but to think that only he could do that is quite frankly, delusional. 

2. ‘Modernise and move with the times....’ I agree with that completely and with your subsequent comments but we had so many false starts under the AQs that I was never sure that WAQ knew his own mind. Hamer, Starnes and now TG. I like TG and he gives me more confidence that he has his finger on the pulse of the club far more efficiently than those before had. But to say it’s taken 6 years to modernise and move with the times is poor. It tells me that for most of that time compromises have been made and we are no closer to our new stadium than the day in February 2016 when Wael beamed at me from a TV and said that financing a new stadium would not be a problem. 

3. ‘Fantasising about a new stadium was what everyone hung onto as a cure.’ Too right they did because all owners, including Wael in his very first week sold the same fantasy! I love the Mem but I also accept that for us to grow and realise our potential we have to move or develop the Mem and since Wael has refused to develop the Mem the new location seems the only option. Since Wael started as our owner the capacity of the Mem has gone from 12,500 in May 16 to somewhere around 10,500 (?) down to 9,500 at the start of this season and even lower over the past week. I may be slightly wrong over the numbers but as no one from the club has given a definitive figure for the capacity I don’t think I’m far wrong. 

Please 1981, I’m not having a go at you but tbh although I love much of what Wael has done for us, his record regarding our new ground is woeful to date. You put a very reasonable and cogent argument together supporting him but after 6 years I’m afraid it comes over as a list of excuses, put together very well I grant you, but excuses nonetheless.


 But at least I know now that no-one would have known what to do with a new ground anyway and that we have to be a ‘modern and moving with the times’ football club before we deserve a new stadium and finally I’ve been fantasising since the 70s to think BRFC deserve a new stadium. Talk about being put in my place!! Shame on you. 

UTG!

We support the club because we have, for decades, regardless of owners and managers. The fans will be there when they are not, it’s us that are the core of any club. 
Would you have said the same re owners, about Wrexham ?

Which are great until some idiot sneaks up on you and pulls the rubber gromit out. Your Birra Moretti goes all over your Crocs. Luckily I wear socks with my Crocs.

1981, a reasoned and literate argument as ever and I agree with some of that but there’s a large amount of very selective stuff from the POV which leaves WAQ with a huge way out of his responsibilities. 
1. Your assertion that we weren’t ready for a new stadium from a marketing and commercial pov really is silly. Had the stadium been built at any time the then-owners would have had to move fast to catch up but they would have I’m sure. Yes, the rapid appointment of staff to deal with it would be needed.  But they would have had time because whatever stadium that comes will not come quickly, a 2/3 year lead in so plenty of time to sort some of that stuff out. To suggest that only WAQ could do this is hugely disrespectful to others and is also probably wrong given the track record over the past 6 years. And to suggest WAQ has all the answers when the capacity problems at the moment and ‘tent-international at the Mem’ show me that all he’s doing is papering over the cracks. For clarity I’m hopeful that in time he will be able to source a ground and this is not a dig at him but to think that only he could do that is quite frankly, delusional. 

2. ‘Modernise and move with the times....’ I agree with that completely and with your subsequent comments but we had so many false starts under the AQs that I was never sure that WAQ knew his own mind. Hamer, Starnes and now TG. I like TG and he gives me more confidence that he has his finger on the pulse of the club far more efficiently than those before had. But to say it’s taken 6 years to modernise and move with the times is poor. It tells me that for most of that time compromises have been made and we are no closer to our new stadium than the day in February 2016 when Wael beamed at me from a TV and said that financing a new stadium would not be a problem. 

3. ‘Fantasising about a new stadium was what everyone hung onto as a cure.’ Too right they did because all owners, including Wael in his very first week sold the same fantasy! I love the Mem but I also accept that for us to grow and realise our potential we have to move or develop the Mem and since Wael has refused to develop the Mem the new location seems the only option. Since Wael started as our owner the capacity of the Mem has gone from 12,500 in May 16 to somewhere around 10,500 (?) down to 9,500 at the start of this season and even lower over the past week. I may be slightly wrong over the numbers but as no one from the club has given a definitive figure for the capacity I don’t think I’m far wrong. 

Please 1981, I’m not having a go at you but tbh although I love much of what Wael has done for us, his record regarding our new ground is woeful to date. You put a very reasonable and cogent argument together supporting him but after 6 years I’m afraid it comes over as a list of excuses, put together very well I grant you, but excuses nonetheless.


 But at least I know now that no-one would have known what to do with a new ground anyway and that we have to be a ‘modern and moving with the times’ football club before we deserve a new stadium and finally I’ve been fantasising since the 70s to think BRFC deserve a new stadium. Talk about being put in my place!! Shame on you. 

UTG!

If I remember correctly, there was a communication from the club, that we were going to use this type of beer mug, but I am guessing that never happened? (I don't know 'cause I drink out of a bottle).

A good and fair reasoned debate WG.  

Heres why I said what I did and as a counter if not add some meat to the bones of your opinion/argument.

1.  When Ian Holtby (lovely guy) was put in charge of commercial it was a job that really was too big for him on his own.  He did a great job at what he could but look at how the marketing, sponsorship and revenue has grown since.  We were using marketing agencies to help and we would have never maximised the new stadium umder the old set up.  I'm not suggesting the old ownership couldnt have done it, but im doubtful it would have been maximised and if it would have broken even in terms of ROI.  If we went into a blank canvass new stadium now then we would be in a much better position.  I dont mean to be disrespectful but look at what is being achieved with the mem now, its the same as it was in 2001.  You see it as papering over the cracks, I see it as maximising what we have knowing full well The mem is totally unfit for purpose now and no one knows that more that Wael.  That is totally the correct thing to do when most of the things have been cost neutral.

2. Unfortunetatly Hamer positioned himself very well as a broker which got him the job as chairman, he came as part of the package.  I'm pretty sure that he wouldnt have gotten the nod if the role was up for grabs under normal circumstances and it was his scatter gun approach and total lack of control which led to MS coming in, despite his brown nosing to Hani. Thankfully Hani eventually saw him for what he was and terminated him. I like MS, lovely guy, just the sort of person you want to go through the finances, turn over all the rocks and empty the Skeltons from the closet.  Exactly what good accountants/financial directors do and what we needed post Hamer.  However they can be very risk adverse or tunnel visioned in their approach.  That can then become embattling or they concentrate so much on the numbers they miss other areas of the business that actually give you the numbers.  TG brings that modern approach and along with that, allowing trusting the staff to be creative to move the club forward.  Its also worth nothing that Wael has only had full control since his father passed, and since then, the real improvements have happened so Im still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

3. It has to be a new stadium.  To redevelop the mem would cost upwards of 30m and that wouldnt get us all sides either. Ironically that would also mean capacity reduction or a groundshare which would cost the club/Wael even more money.  The ROI just isnt there to do it.  So whilst all of the mems problems exist, its still the best option until we find the land/agree contracts/build a new gin palace for us to play in.

And, as an addendum, I can't see funding £3m pa losses as an improvement. It's a marvellous thing that Wael does there, but in no way can anyone call propping up ever increasing losses an improvement.

I suspect that Wael himself would agree privately that it hasn't worked out as he saw it in 2016, and the progress he envisaged in and off the field just hasn't happened.

That's not to say it won't, but we as fans will be the last to know if anything exciting happens.