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Post by yattongas on Jul 21, 2022 18:30:55 GMT
I can't see we've improved in any meaningful way since Wael took over apart from one thing. The training ground. Joey is a good manager but I can't see him as an improvement on Darrell 'Count My Promotions' Clarke. And all Joey's backroom innovations and staff are just a guilty verdict or lucrative offer away from vanishing as fast as they arrived. I think a few people on here desperately talk Wael up because they like him and/or are close to him. May even have trodden the corridors of power. I like him. I really do. But I'd like to hear more about these real improvements in the last 6 years. And a lick of paint in the bar doesn't count. You say a lick of paint in the bar doesn't count, but the club has invested thousands into making the bars a pleasant area to be on a matchday, it's a vast improvement on what it was. On top of that, we've had heavy investments in making the club shop look more professional, into the fan-zone to make the mem a lot more child friendly on matchday, as well as stuff the average fan doesn't see such as the offices that club staff work in on a daily basis and the catering facilities in the East Stand. There's also lots of other things such as the big LED screen, disabled supporter facility upgrades, digital advertising hoardings, modern turnstiles, new tarmacking, I could go on and on and on. They're lots of small things granted but I don't quite think it's fully appreciated the transformation this club has undergone from being a chummy, backwards organisation, tunnel visioning on a stadium and nothing else. To a club that has fully embraced the 21st century with successful commercial operations and modern processes. A club that has made great effort to fundamentally improve supporter experience on a match day. I wouldn't so readily dismiss the training ground as an improvement either. It's the biggest infrastructure project the club has embarked on in decades, funded by Wael. The potential of the site is limitless for the club and it's already having a big impact on the day to day interactions that the coaching staff and players have whilst at Rovers. I'm surprised there are still people out there who think we haven't made great strides forward under Wael to be honest. I know we've had some rocky times on the pitch, but we've also achieved two promotions, an 8th place league one finish and we're now seemingly on the up once more playing some of the most entertaining football seen at the mem for years. On the club shop …… it does make me laugh when they call it the club superstore. |
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Post by axegas on Jul 21, 2022 18:34:21 GMT
You say a lick of paint in the bar doesn't count, but the club has invested thousands into making the bars a pleasant area to be on a matchday, it's a vast improvement on what it was. On top of that, we've had heavy investments in making the club shop look more professional, into the fan-zone to make the mem a lot more child friendly on matchday, as well as stuff the average fan doesn't see such as the offices that club staff work in on a daily basis and the catering facilities in the East Stand. There's also lots of other things such as the big LED screen, disabled supporter facility upgrades, digital advertising hoardings, modern turnstiles, new tarmacking, I could go on and on and on. They're lots of small things granted but I don't quite think it's fully appreciated the transformation this club has undergone from being a chummy, backwards organisation, tunnel visioning on a stadium and nothing else. To a club that has fully embraced the 21st century with successful commercial operations and modern processes. A club that has made great effort to fundamentally improve supporter experience on a match day. I wouldn't so readily dismiss the training ground as an improvement either. It's the biggest infrastructure project the club has embarked on in decades, funded by Wael. The potential of the site is limitless for the club and it's already having a big impact on the day to day interactions that the coaching staff and players have whilst at Rovers. I'm surprised there are still people out there who think we haven't made great strides forward under Wael to be honest. I know we've had some rocky times on the pitch, but we've also achieved two promotions, an 8th place league one finish and we're now seemingly on the up once more playing some of the most entertaining football seen at the mem for years. On the club shop …… it does make me laugh when they call it the club superstore. Me too  In all seriousness though, Terrace have done a really good job in there and there's lots more stuff I'd consider buying compared with previously. |
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Post by theoneandonlyblue on Jul 21, 2022 19:03:04 GMT
I can't see we've improved in any meaningful way since Wael took over apart from one thing. The training ground. Joey is a good manager but I can't see him as an improvement on Darrell 'Count My Promotions' Clarke. And all Joey's backroom innovations and staff are just a guilty verdict or lucrative offer away from vanishing as fast as they arrived. I think a few people on here desperately talk Wael up because they like him and/or are close to him. May even have trodden the corridors of power. I like him. I really do. But I'd like to hear more about these real improvements in the last 6 years. And a lick of paint in the bar doesn't count. It seems Wael appointing the right manager is down to luck as much anything given after DC's departure it took him 4 managers, GC, BG, PT & JB until he get the right, whilst JB was quick to call out BG & PT has being "negligent" Wael clearly felt they were up to the job when he appointed them. Like you I'm struggling to think of one thing, apart from the training ground, where we've improved. Social media wise there's been improvements but that hardly makes the match day experience any better. |
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Post by theoneandonlyblue on Jul 21, 2022 19:06:59 GMT
Ask a Bury fan if he thinks a chairman paying 3m plus per year to keep a team afloat is a failure. Without Wael there would not still be a Bristol Rovers let alone the dream of a stadium.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 21, 2022 19:46:34 GMT
Ask a Bury fan if he thinks a chairman paying 3m plus per year to keep a team afloat is a failure. Without Wael there would not still be a Bristol Rovers let alone the dream of a stadium. That's similar to suggesting we don't need a new stadium as we might do a Darlington, what about the other 45 or so lower league clubs who don't rely upon £3m annual cash injections, plus what happens if Wael decides not to spend the £3m, or even runs out of cash as, unlike Lansdown it's not really clear how wealthy Wael is. |
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Post by theoneandonlyblue on Jul 21, 2022 20:25:24 GMT
Not at all am I suggesting we don't need a new or improved stadium. Just saying that constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club we say we support is poor form.
As supporters all we can do surely is support, attend games, buy merchandise, have a beer at the club not the Welly and ultimately get behind the team, if as supporters we are not doing our bit how can we be critical of one man for not buying us a stadium that many on here would only visit once.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jul 21, 2022 20:48:26 GMT
People talk on here as if decent facilities are the preserve of rich clubs and it isn't fair to expect our owner to provide them. It's the norm in the football league now, we are very much the exception, and there will come a time when the authorities will tell us such.
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Post by Big Jock on Jul 21, 2022 21:01:21 GMT
People talk on here as if decent facilities are the preserve of rich clubs and it isn't fair to expect our owner to provide them. It's the norm in the football league now, we are very much the exception, and there will come a time when the authorities will tell us such. Yous may jest pal, but th gap between Rich and poor is getting wider, on th common peoples streets, in business, an yes in footy, don’t under estimate what’s happening in th world, th big boys are cashing in on th back o a pandemic an a war. On a personal opinion I genuinely think WAQ is doin his best in challenging times 👍🏼 |
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Post by oneandonlyblue on Jul 21, 2022 21:57:35 GMT
Exactly Jock. More of the clubs that have flashed the cash that they do not have will fold before a club with an owner obeying the rules will.
As we are on a personal note I don't know you BJ but have missed reading genuinely entertaining and I believe honest posts from your good self.
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Post by aghast on Jul 21, 2022 22:18:44 GMT
Not at all am I suggesting we don't need a new or improved stadium. Just saying that constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club we say we support is poor form. As supporters all we can do surely is support, attend games, buy merchandise, have a beer at the club not the Welly and ultimately get behind the team, if as supporters we are not doing our bit how can we be critical of one man for not buying us a stadium that many on here would only visit once. "Constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club"? Virtually nobody on here puts Wael down. I raised my head above the parapet to suggest that our progress over the last six years under his leadership has been.......limited. I did however acknowledge what a great thing he's done to keep us solvent. Keeping us solvent and progressing are two different things, however, which in my opinion some people struggle to see. |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 21, 2022 22:32:30 GMT
1981, a reasoned and literate argument as ever and I agree with some of that but there’s a large amount of very selective stuff from the POV which leaves WAQ with a huge way out of his responsibilities. But at least I know now that no-one would have known what to do with a new ground anyway and that we have to be a ‘modern and moving with the times’ football club before we deserve a new stadium and finally I’ve been fantasising since the 70s to think BRFC deserve a new stadium. Talk about being put in my place!! Shame on you. UTG! A good and fair reasoned debate WG. Heres why I said what I did and as a counter if not add some meat to the bones of your opinion/argument. 1. When Ian Holtby (lovely guy) was put in charge of commercial it was a job that really was too big for him on his own. He did a great job at what he could but look at how the marketing, sponsorship and revenue has grown since. We were using marketing agencies to help and we would have never maximised the new stadium umder the old set up. I'm not suggesting the old ownership couldnt have done it, but im doubtful it would have been maximised and if it would have broken even in terms of ROI. If we went into a blank canvass new stadium now then we would be in a much better position. I dont mean to be disrespectful but look at what is being achieved with the mem now, its the same as it was in 2001. You see it as papering over the cracks, I see it as maximising what we have knowing full well The mem is totally unfit for purpose now and no one knows that more that Wael. That is totally the correct thing to do when most of the things have been cost neutral. 2. Unfortunetatly Hamer positioned himself very well as a broker which got him the job as chairman, he came as part of the package. I'm pretty sure that he wouldnt have gotten the nod if the role was up for grabs under normal circumstances and it was his scatter gun approach and total lack of control which led to MS coming in, despite his brown nosing to Hani. Thankfully Hani eventually saw him for what he was and terminated him. I like MS, lovely guy, just the sort of person you want to go through the finances, turn over all the rocks and empty the Skeltons from the closet. Exactly what good accountants/financial directors do and what we needed post Hamer. However they can be very risk adverse or tunnel visioned in their approach. That can then become embattling or they concentrate so much on the numbers they miss other areas of the business that actually give you the numbers. TG brings that modern approach and along with that, allowing trusting the staff to be creative to move the club forward. Its also worth nothing that Wael has only had full control since his father passed, and since then, the real improvements have happened so Im still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 3. It has to be a new stadium. To redevelop the mem would cost upwards of 30m and that wouldnt get us all sides either. Ironically that would also mean capacity reduction or a groundshare which would cost the club/Wael even more money. The ROI just isnt there to do it. So whilst all of the mems problems exist, its still the best option until we find the land/agree contracts/build a new gin palace for us to play in. Thanks for reply.... Clearly you know individuals that I don’t, you like to rub shoulders with others whereas I’m just a supporter who will travel the 5/6 hr round trip, watch the game, engage with whoever I’m sat next to and go home. I’m not ITK, never have been, never will be and that worries me not a jot. I’m a fan, just that. But to answer: 1. Can’t disagree with any of it. I’m sure you’re correct and we may not have ‘maximised...’ the commercial opportunities and are more likely to do that now. But so what, you learn how to do things when the need arises. You don’t turn down opportunities or anything because you don’t think you’re quite ready do you? You grasp the chance and grow. You call what we’re doing maximising what we’re doing knowing that the Mem isn’t fit for purpose. Again I don’t disagree but surely that should give the search for the replacement even more urgency? 2. Yes, again it’s more or less what I said about TG, a definite step up. And as you say we should be willing to give Wael ‘the benefit of the doubt’ after what he’s done for us. He’s been successful in supporting us through difficult times and has helped us survive. Thank you Wael, and I mean that sincerely. But that should not mean that his plans shouldn’t be open to scrutiny nor his intentions held up for examination. In any sphere of life leaders should be accountable for their leadership and be questioned about it. He’s responsible for our success and our future and any leader worth his salt will know he is answerable. 3. Of course a new stadium is needed, no question esp as Wael has always said the Mem is not a future option. So I can’t disagree with any of what you’ve said. But. The big difference between your argument and my feelings are that you have far more patience and look prepared to accept what is being said by our leaders about the new ground whereas I’m less patient and feel that after 6 years we should be further advanced. (I’m not sure what leaders have said about the ground tbh, nothing much have they?) We hear nothing, no plan A , no plan B. Communication over the ground is abysmal. Now you can accuse me of being unreasonable to expect some level of communication but I feel that should be a minimum to receive news about ‘our club.’ And btw, I agree with most of the comments post my comments in the last page. Thank goodness we haven’t had the Bury owners but to use that argument is to accept a very low bar regarding ownership. UTG! |
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 21, 2022 22:52:25 GMT
Not at all am I suggesting we don't need a new or improved stadium. Just saying that constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club we say we support is poor form. As supporters all we can do surely is support, attend games, buy merchandise, have a beer at the club not the Welly and ultimately get behind the team, if as supporters we are not doing our bit how can we be critical of one man for not buying us a stadium that many on here would only visit once. If that’s aimed at me then fair enough. But I do not constantly put Wael down, I have said on numerous occasions that he has been a good and supportive owner and that we have been luckier than some but I will question him with regards to the ground. I won’t repeat what I said earlier but we continue to make losses year on year and we’re told we need a new ground, something that is obvious. That’s fair enough but for us to be successful we do need to challenge our leaders and owner. We need to hold Wael to account. I would never compare Wael with past Bury owners because they are not fit to share the same room as him but I bet Bury fans wish they had questioned and challenged their owners years ago! And it’s not a binary choice is it? We can be well run with a decent ground like many other clubs in the EFL. UTG! |
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Post by fintanstack on Jul 22, 2022 4:37:21 GMT
Not at all am I suggesting we don't need a new or improved stadium. Just saying that constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club we say we support is poor form. As supporters all we can do surely is support, attend games, buy merchandise, have a beer at the club not the Welly and ultimately get behind the team, if as supporters we are not doing our bit how can we be critical of one man for not buying us a stadium that many on here would only visit once. "Constantly putting down someone for bailing out the club"? Virtually nobody on here puts Wael down. I raised my head above the parapet to suggest that our progress over the last six years under his leadership has been.......limited. I did however acknowledge what a great thing he's done to keep us solvent. Keeping us solvent and progressing are two different things, however, which in my opinion some people struggle to see. In the last two years keeping solvent IS progressing. However, three years of silence on stadium plans is really poor. |
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Post by playtowin on Jul 22, 2022 5:03:29 GMT
The converting debt to shares ,the improvements to the facilities at the Mem and the Quarters are all good things.
However.
Whilst the absorbtion of the big losses are admireable. The ownership by the Al Qadi family has now been long enough that the sympathy for the debts is drying up.
The reality of not moving on bigger stadium work means the debts are now self inflicted.
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jul 22, 2022 5:47:43 GMT
Needs to be a line in the sand date where we accept a new stadium isn't viable and we move on and start redeveloping the mem, either gradually or as a complete rebuild.
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Post by orgasmic on Jul 22, 2022 7:01:57 GMT
Needs to be a line in the sand date where we accept a new stadium isn't viable and we move on and start redeveloping the mem, either gradually or as a complete rebuild. Why? We already know redeveloping the Mem isn’t viable so why pour money down the drain doing it? If you had an investment property with a dated kitchen, you wouldn’t put a new one in if the rent you could charge wouldn’t increase. Redeveloping the Mem does nothing but lose money. It’s a vanity project to have something shiny. Eventually a new site will be identified (if it hasn’t already) and the roi will be sufficient that it benefits the club. I share everyone’s frustration at the length of time it has taken so far but in the real world a new stadium is the only option and worth waiting for. |
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Post by eric on Jul 22, 2022 7:28:33 GMT
The converting debt to shares ,the improvements to the facilities at the Mem and the Quarters are all good things. However. Whilst the absorbtion of the big losses are admireable. The ownership by the Al Qadi family has now been long enough that the sympathy for the debts is drying up. The reality of not moving on bigger stadium work means the debts are now self inflicted. So what next? Do the fans turn on him and force him out? Are there multi millionaires/billionaires out there waiting for an opportunity to take on a perennial league one/two club that needs a £50m investment in a new site and stadium? We need to be careful what we wish for when we see what goes on at clubs with investors rather than football loving owners. Personally I’m willing to trust that Wael is doing his best behind the scenes to secure us somewhere to build a new stadium and would much rather have him as owner in the meantime so that I still have a club to support. Yes I would like to know more about what is and has been going on behind the scenes but perhaps there are genuine reasons why he isn’t able to be more open. |
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Post by darkbluegas on Jul 22, 2022 8:19:09 GMT
It seems strange to me that any negative comments about the clubs inability to secure a new stadium often get characterised as demeaning our current owners ability to run the club.
Wael and his family could have done all tbe due diligence they wanted on tbe club prior to purchase but how much due diligence did they carry out on the city.
Land values due to various factors are huge in Bristol and the pressure to build homes massive.
Two developments in Bristol illustrate this well. Firstly lulsgate being chosen over Filton as tbe new Bristol airport and Southmead being chosen over Frenchay as the site for North Bristols new hospital. Both were made as a result of the return on investment to independent investors rather than the need of the Greater Bristol area.
Some here constantly say the only way forward financially for the club is a new stadium but can anyone here point to a new large scale non residential/shopping/office development in Bristol for public use since the end of the second World War.
Wael is a great owner and his understanding of tbe club has developed over his tenure and he must surely grasp the importance of the clubs stadium to its fans now. Its different south of tbe River as they have had owners over tbe years that have developed their stadium, vaguely, in line with modern standards. Tbe Dolman stand,seating in tbe east end and building tbe atyeo stand all in the modern era of tbe game. When their new stadium failed to.materialise it wasn't tbe blow our failure at the UWE was. Conseqthey they regrouped and made a decision on tbe facts in front of them, not some fantasy that may occur in thirty years time.
In reality if there was a realistic desire to redevelop the FM area of Bristol for commercial /residential use, judging by past experience we would be 20 to 30 years away from completion. That's without including a football stadium.
The world of football is changing rapidly as is tbe pressure to provide safe environments for the public to enjoy. Our failure to do something at the Mem fairly soon will see us not only miss the boat but fail to see it disappear over the horizon
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Post by chippenhamgas on Jul 22, 2022 8:28:52 GMT
Needs to be a line in the sand date where we accept a new stadium isn't viable and we move on and start redeveloping the mem, either gradually or as a complete rebuild. Why? We already know redeveloping the Mem isn’t viable so why pour money down the drain doing it? If you had an investment property with a dated kitchen, you wouldn’t put a new one in if the rent you could charge wouldn’t increase. Redeveloping the Mem does nothing but lose money. It’s a vanity project to have something shiny. Eventually a new site will be identified (if it hasn’t already) and the roi will be sufficient that it benefits the club. I share everyone’s frustration at the length of time it has taken so far but in the real world a new stadium is the only option and worth waiting for. Never gonna happen, its a convenient smokescreen. |
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Post by supergas on Jul 22, 2022 9:29:28 GMT
Needs to be a line in the sand date where we accept a new stadium isn't viable and we move on and start redeveloping the mem, either gradually or as a complete rebuild. Why? We already know redeveloping the Mem isn’t viable so why pour money down the drain doing it? If you had an investment property with a dated kitchen, you wouldn’t put a new one in if the rent you could charge wouldn’t increase. Redeveloping the Mem does nothing but lose money. It’s a vanity project to have something shiny. Eventually a new site will be identified (if it hasn’t already) and the roi will be sufficient that it benefits the club. I share everyone’s frustration at the length of time it has taken so far but in the real world a new stadium is the only option and worth waiting for. ROI works for the Mem as well and it's not all immediately seen in turnover over the next 12-36 months. Why hasn't the East seating area been knocked down and rebuilt yet? I can't see why there would be any capacity restrictions given the space at the back, and we can see from recent builds (Brentford, AFC Wimbledon) that each new seat costs somewhere between £3400 and £4000. So why is there not already 4000-4500 rebuilt seats behind that terrace as well as all the new facilities that would come with the rebuild? When you do the maths on the extra seats over a few years, the additional match-day income from new facilities and the potential increase in non-matchday income we have to reach the conclusion that those running the club either firmly believed that a new stadium has always been closer that we publicly knew (and so it wasn't worth it) or they never considered a Plan B that clearly would have been worth it.... ...and when you consider that capacity has always been potentially needed for every non-covid season in the last few years the misjudgment looks even worse.... |
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