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Post by albaron on Jan 18, 2023 11:01:04 GMT
Would you accept a new FM stadium by 2035 if the mem had some tidying up and one new stand now for the next 12 years? I'd probably take that right now, sadly No becaus I would be in my 80's then and probably would not benefit from it. |
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Post by simonj on Jan 18, 2023 11:07:46 GMT
Would you accept a new FM stadium by 2035 if the mem had some tidying up and one new stand now for the next 12 years? I'd probably take that right now, sadly No becaus I would be in my 80's then and probably would not benefit from it. Felt like I was still a kid when we left Eastville. Mangotsfield was the dream, and the dreams continue. I will also be ancient if we ever get a stadium fit for our fans. Give me a regenerated 17000-18000 Mem at least. |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 18, 2023 11:18:49 GMT
Would you accept a new FM stadium by 2035 if the mem had some tidying up and one new stand now for the next 12 years? I'd probably take that right now, sadly Without question, yes. The thing that dismays me is the naivety that was shown in not concluding the UWE deal. The reported reason is that the deal with the UWE wasn't workable as it was skewed in their favour for revenue split. However, surely that would have been a better position financially than being at the Mem. We would have been in the UWE for 2019/2020 season. We would have more supporters attending, the stadium would be something to be proud of and in all likelihood be in a better league position. Who knows DC may have remained motivated and stayed and we could be an established championship club. I think the new owners really messed up on what could prove to have been the opportunity of a lifetime for us Gasheads. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 18, 2023 11:21:57 GMT
Would you accept a new FM stadium by 2035 if the mem had some tidying up and one new stand now for the next 12 years? I'd probably take that right now, sadly Devil in the detail and all that, but personally yes. Should have done that years ago imo, 'modest' new stand especially if it enclosed the stadium better and kept capacity above 12,000 would have taken the pressure off. |
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Post by biggles on Jan 18, 2023 11:32:58 GMT
someone said "a new stadium its all pie in the sky"
perhaps it's being built on the moon!
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Post by wider on Jan 18, 2023 16:10:19 GMT
Would you accept a new FM stadium by 2035 if the mem had some tidying up and one new stand now for the next 12 years? I'd probably take that right now, sadly Without question, yes. The thing that dismays me is the naivety that was shown in not concluding the UWE deal. The reported reason is that the deal with the UWE wasn't workable as it was skewed in their favour for revenue split. However, surely that would have been a better position financially than being at the Mem. We would have been in the UWE for 2019/2020 season. We would have more supporters attending, the stadium would be something to be proud of and in all likelihood be in a better league position. Who knows DC may have remained motivated and stayed and we could be an established championship club. I think the new owners really messed up on what could prove to have been the opportunity of a lifetime for us Gasheads. Not concluding the UWE was not naive if the statement at the time was right. It sounds like the previous board was very naive with the deal as struck. There was nothing sustainable about the deal from the sound of it. We only got use on match days and no income at any other time. These days sustainable clubs make more money from their stadia outside of Matchday. I’m not happy not to hear anything (I’m in my 70s) but I’ll wait to hear rather than knock Wael and Tom (who seem to be doing ok off the pitch) or JB who has got us behind him and the team again (most of us). UTG! |
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Post by phillistine on Jan 18, 2023 16:31:25 GMT
.... These days sustainable clubs make more money from their stadia outside of Matchday. I’m not happy not to hear anything (I’m in my 70s) but I’ll wait to hear rather than knock Wael and Tom (who seem to be doing ok off the pitch) or JB who has got us behind him and the team again (most of us). UTG! lets face it the tv/ sponsorship/advertising income generated by the top clubs far out weighs what their stadium delivers even if it is open 365 days a year. You only have to see the spending power of Bournemouth, Fulham and Brentford to know that. If we reach those giddy heights then the economic vialbility of the stdium stadium will be unimportant |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 18, 2023 16:42:14 GMT
Without question, yes. The thing that dismays me is the naivety that was shown in not concluding the UWE deal. The reported reason is that the deal with the UWE wasn't workable as it was skewed in their favour for revenue split. However, surely that would have been a better position financially than being at the Mem. We would have been in the UWE for 2019/2020 season. We would have more supporters attending, the stadium would be something to be proud of and in all likelihood be in a better league position. Who knows DC may have remained motivated and stayed and we could be an established championship club. I think the new owners really messed up on what could prove to have been the opportunity of a lifetime for us Gasheads. Not concluding the UWE was not naive if the statement at the time was right. It sounds like the previous board was very naive with the deal as struck. There was nothing sustainable about the deal from the sound of it. We only got use on match days and no income at any other time. These days sustainable clubs make more money from their stadia outside of Matchday. I’m not happy not to hear anything (I’m in my 70s) but I’ll wait to hear rather than knock Wael and Tom (who seem to be doing ok off the pitch) or JB who has got us behind him and the team again (most of us). UTG! Don't get me wrong I am no bashing Wael. He has given us some financial stability and his heart seems to be in the right place and I am grateful for that However I do feel they were just too new to football ownership to conclude the UWE deal. I'm sure the previous board got the best deal they could and that was going to provide a new stadium. Obviously you want to maximise revenue but sometimes you need some pragmatism. Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings. I take your point we want revenue outside of matchday but we're between a rock and a hard place. How many more years do we wait, how much more money will we loose and how many potential new supporters will we miss. We need this to grow the club and hopefully attain championship level status I guess the truth could have been we couldn't afford the UWE regardless of any revenue streams. Anyway I guess that's history, just the level of frustration when this has gone on for years and years and years gets to you. I do agree with your last sentiment. JB has got us unified behind the owners and the team and let's hope that continues. |
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Post by Colyton Gas on Jan 18, 2023 17:20:52 GMT
Great post and I share your emotions especially when everyone else seems to be improving their infrastructure.I am almost embarrassed when fans of other clubs take the wet i'e Bolton saying it reminded them of Chernobyl.I often bring a disabled fan and our facilities must be border line in reaching the minimum standards.
Know we can't compare but Derby with its lifts ,hoists, food outlets specialist loos and mobility support etc was superb.
Little Beer Albion FC down here( club linesmen!) have built great new changing rooms,clubhouse and a fab supervised play park for youngsters too young to watch the footy.
With no updates or even minor structural improvements and still the tents,I simply am resigned to the Saga and our shambles of a ground.
Would love to know what Joey thinks.
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Post by aghast on Jan 18, 2023 17:28:39 GMT
Well, at the risk of sounding boring, and as Pirate has said, we need a statement from Wael about this. We are years away from a new stadium and the Mem is a joke. What if we got to the Championship and stayed there? How are we going to convert it to all seater? What will the capacity be reduced to if that happens? Are we going to upgrade the bars, bogs and burger stalls? Do we expect to continue adding more tents or something more substantial (if temporary)? Is the infrastructure going to continue to rust away or be fixed?
These questions (apart from all seater) apply regardless of promotion.
If we were a plc the shareholders would be disgruntled. They invest in the company and expect an annual report, not a wall of silence. The fans also invest and expectations are similar, I believe.
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Post by horfield on Jan 18, 2023 20:34:49 GMT
If you know any shareholders ask them to attend the AGM this Friday at 5.30pm. They then can raise and ask any questions relating to any concerns you may have. Not sure whom from the club will be attending.
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Post by wider on Jan 18, 2023 21:13:56 GMT
“Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings.”
Sorry but you are missing the point that we would have had to pay for UWE to be built (by selling The Mem) and got next to nothing in return. It was a rubbish deal. The family silver isn’t much but at least we still have it and can hope to do something with it.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 18, 2023 21:26:25 GMT
So what do we know? Wael said 3 and a half years ago "It’s still our aim to be in (a new ground) in 2 years time. We have identified one site we’re very interested in, the site at the fruit market. Technical work on the planning process is underway". Observations from this statement. The aim to be in in 2 years time did not happen. Work on the planning process was underway. Questions - What happened to that work? was there ever a conclusion to that? or is it still ongoing? Was it abandoned? Why has it been Three and a half years without further statements? I have read the 88 page development document that has just been issued for the St Philips marsh area ( I was bored at work😂 ) and here are my thoughts/observations. Firstly it is very high level wish list type document. Not much of it seems concrete. Other points to note. The main focus of it seems to be on residential development and green spaces. The area aims to keep car use to a minimum. The development timescale is 10-30 years. The document talks about different scenarios of use. ONE of the scenarios described as: "Leisure / Mixed Use Scenario 2 identifies land associated with the Bristol Fruit Market site as an opportunity for a large scale, mixed use leisure destination, potentially including a new leisure and sporting facility and associated facilities. This could potentially include reconfiguration of the market to create a more visitor focused attraction including fresh food / street food markets, entertainment and education. The large scale nature of these uses would require substantial land acquisition and realignment of Albert Road". I read from this that the fruit market will stay where it is, this would rule out a stadium. However the diagram that goes with the scenario shows a suspicious stadium looking square. (apologies about the diagram I couldn't figure out how to get it any bigger.) View Attachment. Additionally further on in the document when it discusses phasing, it states phase 2 (2025-2035) "Phase 2: Prioritising creation of Avon River Park flood defences / green infrastructure and Albert Road Resilient Access Network to create a cohesive riverside development area with strong links to Temple Meads and residential areas to the south. POTENTIAL delivery of a leisure and sporting facility on Bristol Fruit Market site, with potential relocation of the market within the local area."This seems to suggest that the stadium could still be considered or maybe the document has been updated and no one checked for consistency. So what can we conclude? - The stadium could still be a consideration but it has gone from being within the plans to a possible scenario among a number of others. Very vague mentions and uses term sporting facility rather than arena. If the stadium is still a possibility I would say we are no further along than three and a half years ago
- I don't think we can conclude that the stadium is not going to happen on the fruit market. However I think it is fair to assume that we are some way away from anything concrete on any plans
- If anything is going to happen it will happen between 2025 and 2035. Even if it is going to happen we could be 13 years away from something being built. Although the figures seem pretty finger in the air
- The planned use of the land is residential with minimum car usage, would this aim work with a football stadium that will potentially bring in 20,000 people. How feasible is it.
Having read the document I don't think it tells us anything that we didn't already know. Which is pretty much nothing more than rumour and speculation. We could be planning a stadium or were not planning a stadium.
As always we await an update that never comes.
![]() I think it tells us that BCC are still open to a stadium being built on the FM but whether Congyer Investments &/or Wael are still interested in building one is a different matter. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Jan 18, 2023 22:02:41 GMT
“Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings.” Sorry but you are missing the point that we would have had to pay for UWE to be built (by selling The Mem) and got next to nothing in return. It was a rubbish deal. The family silver isn’t much but at least we still have it and can hope to do something with it. Non match day revenue at the Mem is around £2-3m a year looking at accounts from a few years ago. That means we would have needed to increase attendance by an average 4,000 a game just to make good the loss and stand still. |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 19, 2023 8:25:21 GMT
“Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings.” Sorry but you are missing the point that we would have had to pay for UWE to be built (by selling The Mem) and got next to nothing in return. It was a rubbish deal. The family silver isn’t much but at least we still have it and can hope to do something with it. No, I'm not missing the point. I get what you're saying. We would have gone from owning the Mem and the land it is on to owning a new stadium and not the land it's on. I think also the UWE was going to get the match day parking. My point was it may have been worth compromising to get us in to a new stadium. We could have got a 100 year lease on the land. I think that is the basis a lot of clubs operate on. What rovers would have got in return was a decent stadium, being able to attract better players easier, better sponsorship deals, increased crowds and feasibility of maintaining championship football. It's all water under the bridge now but sometimes it's better to be pragmatic. No use being at the mem for then next 100 years still hanging on to the fact at least we own the entire ground. |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 19, 2023 8:32:20 GMT
“Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings.” Sorry but you are missing the point that we would have had to pay for UWE to be built (by selling The Mem) and got next to nothing in return. It was a rubbish deal. The family silver isn’t much but at least we still have it and can hope to do something with it. Non match day revenue at the Mem is around £2-3m a year looking at accounts from a few years ago. That means we would have needed to increase attendance by an average 4,000 a game just to make good the loss and stand still. I guess it depends what non match day revenue is. There is no way the mem on its own outside of matchday is making £2M-£3M a year. That's approx £8K per non match day. I know they let some rooms out for work conferences but that isn't going to generate that much money. I would be surprised if its more than £1000 per week. My guess would be is that non match day figure includes sponsorships, tv money, prize money, league money, shop sales etc. All of which we would have had at the UWE. Anyway as i said in the other mail it's all water under the bridge the only show in town is the Mem and we have to put up with it for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 19, 2023 8:39:59 GMT
So what do we know? Wael said 3 and a half years ago "It’s still our aim to be in (a new ground) in 2 years time. We have identified one site we’re very interested in, the site at the fruit market. Technical work on the planning process is underway". Observations from this statement. The aim to be in in 2 years time did not happen. Work on the planning process was underway. Questions - What happened to that work? was there ever a conclusion to that? or is it still ongoing? Was it abandoned? Why has it been Three and a half years without further statements? I have read the 88 page development document that has just been issued for the St Philips marsh area ( I was bored at work😂 ) and here are my thoughts/observations. Firstly it is very high level wish list type document. Not much of it seems concrete. Other points to note. The main focus of it seems to be on residential development and green spaces. The area aims to keep car use to a minimum. The development timescale is 10-30 years. The document talks about different scenarios of use. ONE of the scenarios described as: "Leisure / Mixed Use Scenario 2 identifies land associated with the Bristol Fruit Market site as an opportunity for a large scale, mixed use leisure destination, potentially including a new leisure and sporting facility and associated facilities. This could potentially include reconfiguration of the market to create a more visitor focused attraction including fresh food / street food markets, entertainment and education. The large scale nature of these uses would require substantial land acquisition and realignment of Albert Road". I read from this that the fruit market will stay where it is, this would rule out a stadium. However the diagram that goes with the scenario shows a suspicious stadium looking square. (apologies about the diagram I couldn't figure out how to get it any bigger.) View Attachment. Additionally further on in the document when it discusses phasing, it states phase 2 (2025-2035) "Phase 2: Prioritising creation of Avon River Park flood defences / green infrastructure and Albert Road Resilient Access Network to create a cohesive riverside development area with strong links to Temple Meads and residential areas to the south. POTENTIAL delivery of a leisure and sporting facility on Bristol Fruit Market site, with potential relocation of the market within the local area."This seems to suggest that the stadium could still be considered or maybe the document has been updated and no one checked for consistency. So what can we conclude? - The stadium could still be a consideration but it has gone from being within the plans to a possible scenario among a number of others. Very vague mentions and uses term sporting facility rather than arena. If the stadium is still a possibility I would say we are no further along than three and a half years ago
- I don't think we can conclude that the stadium is not going to happen on the fruit market. However I think it is fair to assume that we are some way away from anything concrete on any plans
- If anything is going to happen it will happen between 2025 and 2035. Even if it is going to happen we could be 13 years away from something being built. Although the figures seem pretty finger in the air
- The planned use of the land is residential with minimum car usage, would this aim work with a football stadium that will potentially bring in 20,000 people. How feasible is it.
Having read the document I don't think it tells us anything that we didn't already know. Which is pretty much nothing more than rumour and speculation. We could be planning a stadium or were not planning a stadium.
As always we await an update that never comes.
![]() I think it tells us that BCC are still open to a stadium being built on the FM but whether Congyer Investments &/or Wael are still interested in building one is a different matter. That is the positive thing, the council have left it open that the stadium could happen. It's down to us if that does progress. |
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Post by eric on Jan 19, 2023 9:25:06 GMT
“Whatever the deal with the UWE was would have been better than our position now. We're in a tip of a stadium, limited to 9K fans and no revenue other than on match days. We're loosing £3M a year and this doesn't look like changing for a long time. If we were in the UWE we would be getting many 1000s more fans each game and the additional revenue that brings.” Sorry but you are missing the point that we would have had to pay for UWE to be built (by selling The Mem) and got next to nothing in return. It was a rubbish deal. The family silver isn’t much but at least we still have it and can hope to do something with it. No, I'm not missing the point. I get what you're saying. We would have gone from owning the Mem and the land it is on to owning a new stadium and not the land it's on. I think also the UWE was going to get the match day parking. My point was it may have been worth compromising to get us in to a new stadium. We could have got a 100 year lease on the land. I think that is the basis a lot of clubs operate on. What rovers would have got in return was a decent stadium, being able to attract better players easier, better sponsorship deals, increased crowds and feasibility of maintaining championship football. It's all water under the bridge now but sometimes it's better to be pragmatic. No use being at the mem for then next 100 years still hanging on to the fact at least we own the entire ground. You make all these assertions with no knowledge of the contract terms. Do you not think the club had experts pouring over the data and modelling for the revenue streams etc…Its easy to pick fault and accuse the owner of being naive from an armchair without any detailed information and by making assumptions. If Wael and his expert advisors concluded it wasn’t viable we just have to take their word, he wasn’t going to turn down a so called great opportunity for no good reason when the alternative was to linger in the Mem for many more years with him having to personally underwrite annual £m+ losses from his families bank account. |
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Post by heartofgas on Jan 19, 2023 12:42:22 GMT
No, I'm not missing the point. I get what you're saying. We would have gone from owning the Mem and the land it is on to owning a new stadium and not the land it's on. I think also the UWE was going to get the match day parking. My point was it may have been worth compromising to get us in to a new stadium. We could have got a 100 year lease on the land. I think that is the basis a lot of clubs operate on. What rovers would have got in return was a decent stadium, being able to attract better players easier, better sponsorship deals, increased crowds and feasibility of maintaining championship football. It's all water under the bridge now but sometimes it's better to be pragmatic. No use being at the mem for then next 100 years still hanging on to the fact at least we own the entire ground. You make all these assertions with no knowledge of the contract terms. Do you not think the club had experts pouring over the data and modelling for the revenue streams etc…Its easy to pick fault and accuse the owner of being naive from an armchair without any detailed information and by making assumptions. If Wael and his expert advisors concluded it wasn’t viable we just have to take their word, he wasn’t going to turn down a so called great opportunity for no good reason when the alternative was to linger in the Mem for many more years with him having to personally underwrite annual £m+ losses from his families bank account. Yes, None of us know what the terms were so I accept I am making some assumptions here. Maybe naive wasn't the correct word but I find it hard to believe where we are today is a more favourable position than if the UWE went ahead. The other problem there was at the time was it was the family that was in charge, not Wael. Anyhow what is done is done. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Jan 19, 2023 15:59:29 GMT
How do you know it was a problem Wael's family were involved?
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