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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 8:18:13 GMT
Labour will now look inwards and try to lay the blame somewhere. Was it Brexit? was it Corbyn? was it their policies? was it the anti-semitism? In truth, it was a combination of everything, and when you put that whole package together it's not worth voting for. Good to see people like Gauke, Grieve, Soubrey & Woolaston lose. People like these thought they were morally superior to the electorate. This vote has shown that a second referendum would result in an even bigger majority to Leave. Forget about old people dying, young people coming onto the electoral register, people changing their minds......all of those arguments were just made up. The silent majority have been watching....and seething.....and last night they spoke. Has anyone seen Bercow's face when the exit poll was released? Priceless  It's done and dusted nobby, no argument now. Up to Boris Johnson to deliver because those seats they won can turn back easily enough at the next election if they don't follow through
that said
Interesting observation from Prof John Curtice. Votes for Remain parties: 52% Votes for Leave parties: 48%. But that's all over now.
I have no problem if someone wants to campaign to re-join the EU. Form a political party, travel across the country spreading your views, take seats in local elections, and apply pressure to the main political parties. That is just what Nigel Farage did. He did it the right way, using the democratic process. I would be happy for someone to do this rather than trying to subvert Parliament either from within or via the Courts. |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2019 8:22:48 GMT
It's done and dusted nobby, no argument now. Up to Boris Johnson to deliver because those seats they won can turn back easily enough at the next election if they don't follow through
that said
Interesting observation from Prof John Curtice. Votes for Remain parties: 52% Votes for Leave parties: 48%. But that's all over now.
I have no problem if someone wants to campaign to re-join the EU. Form a political party, travel across the country spreading your views, take seats in local elections, and apply pressure to the main political parties. That is just what Nigel Farage did. He did it the right way, using the democratic process. I would be happy for someone to do this rather than trying to subvert Parliament either from within or via the Courts. Generally I would agree on that approach, the problem was/is now we leave and re-joining could be on vastly different terms and losing the benefits and securities we have/had as opposed to campaigning to keep what we had, because in essence any future re-joining is on worse terms |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 8:33:04 GMT
I have no problem if someone wants to campaign to re-join the EU. Form a political party, travel across the country spreading your views, take seats in local elections, and apply pressure to the main political parties. That is just what Nigel Farage did. He did it the right way, using the democratic process. I would be happy for someone to do this rather than trying to subvert Parliament either from within or via the Courts. Generally I would agree on that approach, the problem was/is now we leave and re-joining could be on vastly different terms and losing the benefits and securities we have/had as opposed to campaigning to keep what we had, because in essence any future re-joining is on worse terms Personally, I don't think the EU will last another twenty years. There are too many weaknesses in the whole structure. However, if someone wants to re-join, then by all means use the democratic process. In fact, do it like Nigel Farage did. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 8:37:30 GMT
Labour will now look inwards and try to lay the blame somewhere. Was it Brexit? was it Corbyn? was it their policies? was it the anti-semitism? In truth, it was a combination of everything, and when you put that whole package together it's not worth voting for. Good to see people like Gauke, Grieve, Soubrey & Woolaston lose. People like these thought they were morally superior to the electorate. This vote has shown that a second referendum would result in an even bigger majority to Leave. Forget about old people dying, young people coming onto the electoral register, people changing their minds......all of those arguments were just made up. The silent majority have been watching....and seething.....and last night they spoke. Has anyone seen Bercow's face when the exit poll was released? Priceless It's done and dusted nobby, no argument now. Up to Boris Johnson to deliver because those seats they won can turn back easily enough at the next election if they don't follow through
that said
Interesting observation from Prof John Curtice. Votes for Remain parties: 52% Votes for Leave parties: 48%. But that's all over now.
You’re probably right and a lot of seats won will be overturned next time. As I mentioned in my earlier post the working class don’t like being lied to and treated with contempt- fair play to the lifelong labour supporters for ‘holding their noses’ and making their voices heard in the ballot boxes. The sound of their voices were being dismissed. Much will depend on which direction Labour take now. Stick with the extremist left and they face an even heavier defeat next time. Become more centrist and the country would have a palatable alternative. A healthy political system needs to have a reasonable level of competition but with the unions running the party we will have a single party country for a very long time. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 8:43:32 GMT
I have no problem if someone wants to campaign to re-join the EU. Form a political party, travel across the country spreading your views, take seats in local elections, and apply pressure to the main political parties. That is just what Nigel Farage did. He did it the right way, using the democratic process. I would be happy for someone to do this rather than trying to subvert Parliament either from within or via the Courts. Generally I would agree on that approach, the problem was/is now we leave and re-joining could be on vastly different terms and losing the benefits and securities we have/had as opposed to campaigning to keep what we had, because in essence any future re-joining is on worse terms .....or the EU will be feeling our loss (well our cash) and would desperate to have us back on any terms? Personally, I think that after a few years we’ll be doing well while the EU is crumbling and no-one would want us to ever go back. |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2019 8:46:07 GMT
Generally I would agree on that approach, the problem was/is now we leave and re-joining could be on vastly different terms and losing the benefits and securities we have/had as opposed to campaigning to keep what we had, because in essence any future re-joining is on worse terms .....or the EU will be feeling our loss (well our cash) and would desperate to have us back on any terms? Personally, I think that after a few years we’ll be doing well while the EU is crumbling and no-one would want us to ever go back. Maybe, but what price might we (and especially those in traditional Labour seats that voted Tory) have to pay in the short term |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 8:56:29 GMT
What next for Chuka Umunna?
I reckon he`ll join Sinn Fein.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 9:02:05 GMT
What next for Chuka Umunna? I reckon he`ll join Sinn Fein. Wasn't he going to be the UK's version of Obama? I haven't looked, but how many of those MP's who changed parties in the last year either held the seat for their new party or won as an Independent? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 9:26:26 GMT
Morning Oldie.
That f**k Boris campaign went well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 9:40:14 GMT
The very vocal minorities have been sniping, bullying and lying for the past few years. The silent majority have gone about their business and waited for this opportunity to use another democratic vote to voice their views. I hope the Fat Cat Union bosses keep their grip on Labour as this violent lurch to the far left has made them unelectable - egged on and fooled by the dimwit yobs gobbing off at the rally’s they really thought they had a winning ticket. The opposition parties lies over upholding the referendum result has not gone down too well. The working classes don’t like being lied to, betrayed and taken for idiots. The vocal lefties in the work place, those given disproportionate airtime by the media and on social media/forums like this have played a part as well - a continual tirade of abuse and intolerance toward anyone daring to hold a different view. Perhaps a few on here will have learned a lesson in civility, if not carry on as you are and help achieve another anti-left landslide next time. Very well put Eric. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 9:41:46 GMT
We`re doomed. Doomed.  |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2019 10:08:51 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't)  |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 13, 2019 10:09:23 GMT
What next for Chuka Umunna? I reckon he`ll join Sinn Fein. Holding hands with Jo Swinson skipping along the Yellow Brick Road. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:27:28 GMT
I have no problem if someone wants to campaign to re-join the EU. Form a political party, travel across the country spreading your views, take seats in local elections, and apply pressure to the main political parties. That is just what Nigel Farage did. He did it the right way, using the democratic process. I would be happy for someone to do this rather than trying to subvert Parliament either from within or via the Courts. Generally I would agree on that approach, the problem was/is now we leave and re-joining could be on vastly different terms and losing the benefits and securities we have/had as opposed to campaigning to keep what we had, because in essence any future re-joining is on worse terms Well that’s not our problem anymore. Well done to the victors last night, but they will carry the can if Brexit ruins the economy and we have years of instability and job losses. As I’ve said all along I hope the likes of those living in Darlington who voted Tory are lighting cigars off £50 notes in 5 years time and life is grand but, as Andrew a Neil said to Francois- there are no policies in your manifesto that help the working class. Heidi Allen said much the same, that she would love Boris to turn out to be a man of the people now he has a strong majority but everything she has seen from working with him suggests the opposite. Careful what you wish for, as the saying goes. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:29:12 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't) There was a funny interview with Neil who accused Farage of doing a runner to the US to be Trump’s warm up man. Now that would be classic Nige, deliver Brexit then do a runner. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 10:33:45 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't) I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Dec 13, 2019 10:43:40 GMT
I blame Blair for this mess.
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2019 10:50:25 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't) I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. It's not that, it's the same old problems with FPTP. Lib Dems increase their share of the vote by 4% and lose a seat
SNP can swallow up seats with a handful of votes
it's not limited to the left either. you only have to look how many votes UKIP got in previous elections to get zero seats.
We are stuck with two parties in the main, one has been hijacked by Momentum and the other has 'snatched' votes from people because there simply are no real alternatives
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:51:23 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't) I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. So 46% of the vote gets 56% of the seats? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 10:55:16 GMT
I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. It's not that, it's the same old problems with FPTP. Lib Dems increase their share of the vote by 4% and lose a seat
SNP can swallow up seats with a handful of votes
it's not limited to the left either. you only have to look how many votes UKIP got in previous elections to get zero seats.
We are stuck with two parties in the main, one has been hijacked by Momentum and the other has 'snatched' votes from people because there simply are no real alternatives
To be fair we had a vote for electoral reform and no-one turned out for it. We won’t get another one as long as the Tories have a hole in their arse. |
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