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Post by Parrot on Dec 13, 2019 11:00:50 GMT
Thank F**K for that  |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 11:05:45 GMT
It's not that, it's the same old problems with FPTP. Lib Dems increase their share of the vote by 4% and lose a seat
SNP can swallow up seats with a handful of votes
it's not limited to the left either. you only have to look how many votes UKIP got in previous elections to get zero seats.
We are stuck with two parties in the main, one has been hijacked by Momentum and the other has 'snatched' votes from people because there simply are no real alternatives
To be fair we had a vote for electoral reform and no-one turned out for it. We won’t get another one as long as the Tories have a hole in their arse. And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:14:28 GMT
To be fair we had a vote for electoral reform and no-one turned out for it. We won’t get another one as long as the Tories have a hole in their arse. And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2019 11:30:48 GMT
And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. Under the current system, I sadly don't see Labour winning a majority for a long, long time. Since Cameron fixed FPTP to be even worse than it was previously, it's rigged to win pretty much every time. Apparently 9 years of a ruined Britain isn't enough for people to say 'enough is enough' - in fact it seems the UK likes cuts, racism, rise in a crime & an NHS on its knees. Maybe we need another 20 years of Tories screwing the little guy over before the working class finally say 'enough is enough'? Then maybe we'll get an electoral reform - but even that is a maybe. The tories won't change it, why would they? It works well for them. The saddest part for me is that today is the day we'll tell our kids about the beginning of the the break up of the United Kingdom. Sad day. |
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Post by axegas on Dec 13, 2019 11:40:46 GMT
And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. Labour need to reposition themselves as a social democratic moderate centre left party and find a leader that has an uncontroversial past that people can warm to (Sir Keir Starmer?) They then need to find a leftist unionist message in Scotland to win back seats there and reclaim the northern "red wall" that has temporarily switched sides due to Brexit. Once elected they can instigate more leftist policies and reverse austerity all they like but before that they've got to find a more palatable centrist argument to put to the British electorate otherwise they will be in opposition for many years to come. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:41:19 GMT
Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. Under the current system, I sadly don't see Labour winning a majority for a long, long time. Since Cameron fixed FPTP to be even worse than it was previously, it's rigged to win pretty much every time. Apparently 9 years of a ruined Britain isn't enough for people to say 'enough is enough' - in fact it seems the UK likes cuts, racism, rise in a crime & an NHS on its knees. Maybe we need another 20 years of Tories screwing the little guy over before the working class finally say 'enough is enough'? Then maybe we'll get an electoral reform - but even that is a maybe. The tories won't change it, why would they? It works well for them. The saddest part for me is that today is the day we'll tell our kids about the beginning of the the break of the United Kingdom. Sad day. Well if you look at the vote numbers from last night it appears that the “get brexit done” vote was actually in a slight minority so it speaks more to a second referendum. And Labour and Lib Dem’s in direct opposition when both were in favour of a referendum was a killer. But hey, I feel as disappointed as you but one privilege reserved for the losers is the chance to hold the victor’s coat, stand on the sidelines and say “now show the people who voted for you what you can do”. I can’t see the north getting a sudden cash injection that they weren’t even promised, can you? Also the union is dead now and I don’t see rifts in this country being healed until two generations or more. When today’s youth grow up and live their whole lives with lack of available housing, stagnant wages, underfunded services etc only then will the country be ready to move towards the politics of the many and not the few. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:47:54 GMT
We`re doomed. Doomed.  At least myself, Eric and Weeezord are not being carted off to the Gulag today 😁 |
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Post by peterparker on Dec 13, 2019 11:49:49 GMT
And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. can't really change anything or help anyone unless you win an election though |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 11:50:46 GMT
And the Conservatives will keep being the party in power, as long as Labour are more concerned with maintaining a hard left grip on their party, rather than winning an election. Can a true Labour Party win an election though? Was Labour traditional Labour under Blair? I think it’s sad that seemingly for Labour to become electable they have to somewhat abandon their principles of putting the poorest/workers first and become more like the Lib Dem’s. Do you stick by your principles or do you want to be in power? Not a choice the Tories ever have to make, seemingly. Do you consider Corbyn to be traditional Labour? All his political life, he`s been against Britain`s membership of the EU. Check out his voting record on the subject. And then, when he has a shot at being the next PM, he`s no longer against it. Is that sticking by your principles? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:52:31 GMT
the worst thing about this election is we can kiss goodbye to any electoral reform for the next decade. Might have to vote for Nige's reform party if he is serious (Obviously he isn't)  I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. William. At times you remind me of an early 1970's television. You sometimes need a few slaps before you get the picture. Actually, if you add up the total of votes from the Remain parties you'll find tha..............agh! |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 11:54:49 GMT
We`re doomed. Doomed. At least myself, Eric and Weeezord are not being carted off to the Gulag today 😁 All joking apart, I expect the UK`s Jewish population, will be breathing a bit easier this morning. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2019 11:55:37 GMT
Under the current system, I sadly don't see Labour winning a majority for a long, long time. Since Cameron fixed FPTP to be even worse than it was previously, it's rigged to win pretty much every time. Apparently 9 years of a ruined Britain isn't enough for people to say 'enough is enough' - in fact it seems the UK likes cuts, racism, rise in a crime & an NHS on its knees. Maybe we need another 20 years of Tories screwing the little guy over before the working class finally say 'enough is enough'? Then maybe we'll get an electoral reform - but even that is a maybe. The tories won't change it, why would they? It works well for them. The saddest part for me is that today is the day we'll tell our kids about the beginning of the the break of the United Kingdom. Sad day. Well if you look at the vote numbers from last night it appears that the “get brexit done” vote was actually in a slight minority so it speaks more to a second referendum. And Labour and Lib Dem’s in direct opposition when both were in favour of a referendum was a killer. But hey, I feel as disappointed as you but one privilege reserved for the losers is the chance to hold the victor’s coat, stand on the sidelines and say “now show the people who voted for you what you can do”. I can’t see the north getting a sudden cash injection that they weren’t even promised, can you? Also the union is dead now and I don’t see rifts in this country being healed until two generations or more. When today’s youth grow up and live their whole lives with lack of available housing, stagnant wages, underfunded services etc only then will the country be ready to move towards the politics of the many and not the few. I completely agree with everything you've said. I can't help but feel a bit of anger to Lib Dems, a lot of this is on them for me. There was the chance to take down the Tories, put in a temporary government with Corbyn as leader, hold a referendum and then a GE. But no, Swinson couldn't get off her high horse to allow JC to be a temporary PM for a few weeks, somehow she over estimated her power with her 12 seats. How did she think the party with over 200 seats should ever make way for Lib Dems? The list of issues the country has is unbelievable - the only potential plus side of this majority is that it may allow Boris to create a softer Brexit in the December 2020 talks, but let's see - I doubt it. I usually have no issue with Tories winning, that's democracy - but this time it feels especially stupid. We've had endless warning signs of what they'll do. Thankfully for me, my industry (healthcare/pharmaceuticals) will only benefit from this Tory government, making me better off (which is so ironic that I actually voted Labour, yet the working class northerners seemed to vote Tory). Usually I'm sympathetic with people struggling and will offer to help if I can. After this though? Not a chance, I'm going to be as blunt as their fearless leader is and just say "good - you literally asked for this". |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 11:56:12 GMT
I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. It's not that, it's the same old problems with FPTP. Lib Dems increase their share of the vote by 4% and lose a seat
SNP can swallow up seats with a handful of votes
it's not limited to the left either. you only have to look how many votes UKIP got in previous elections to get zero seats.
We are stuck with two parties in the main, one has been hijacked by Momentum and the other has 'snatched' votes from people because there simply are no real alternatives
In most countries that run proportional voting you need a minimum of 5% of the vote before you get allocated people into Parliament. Under those rules, the SNP would have nobody in Parliament 😁 |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2019 11:56:41 GMT
At least myself, Eric and Weeezord are not being carted off to the Gulag today 😁 All joking apart, I expect the UK`s Jewish population, will be breathing a bit easier this morning. But the islamic, nor any one of colour won't be. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 11:57:30 GMT
I demand a Peoples Election. Nobody knew what they were voting for this time. Plus, the result isn`t binding. Merely advisory. William. At times you remind me of an early 1970's television. There`s nothing wrong with my vertical hold. |
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Dec 13, 2019 11:59:59 GMT
More importantly...
How does this effect the Fruit Market?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 12:03:10 GMT
We`re doomed. Doomed. At least myself, Eric and Weeezord are not being carted off to the Gulag today 😁 No, but channel 4 might be... |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 13, 2019 12:05:14 GMT
More importantly... How does this effect the Fruit Market? I don`t think it will have any effect on the UK`s gay community. |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 13, 2019 12:05:49 GMT
More importantly... How does this effect the Fruit Market? Well the Irish total produce will have to pay tariffs making their business more expensive. Sounds like a good reason to sell up to me  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 12:09:02 GMT
More importantly... How does this effect the Fruit Market? Well the Irish total produce will have to pay tariffs making their business more expensive. Sounds like a good reason to sell up to me What Tariff's? |
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