Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 20:45:00 GMT
Really? She’s just a Scottish Farage! I’m not bothering to tune in to any of the debates and I suspect at least 90% of the population will have long known which way they were going to vote so all seems a bit pointless to me. It’s almost like film auditions and about who comes across best on the camera - surely it should be a vote based on political philosophies and what you hope are genuine manifesto pledges not acting/presentation skills? Fair point about voting based on presentation over substance but what she did well was convey the general principles the party stands for and they align with what I want to see from a Westminster government. It’s worth reiterating that they were denied the same democracy that the leavers complain about so she has every right to play the Farage role for Scotland. I would rather Scotland remain in the union but they were promised staying in the EU and they now find, like the leavers, that they were mis-lead so if leavers get their Brexit then the Scots absolutely should get another referendum. Is Scotland’s democracy any less valid than the leaver’s? I guarantee the English and Welsh brexiteers would steamroller over that question in the same way polls are showing no-one gives a sh** about Northern Ireland. You do know that more Scots voted to Leave the EU than the number of Scots who voted for the SNP at the last GE. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 20:51:27 GMT
Fair point about voting based on presentation over substance but what she did well was convey the general principles the party stands for and they align with what I want to see from a Westminster government. It’s worth reiterating that they were denied the same democracy that the leavers complain about so she has every right to play the Farage role for Scotland. I would rather Scotland remain in the union but they were promised staying in the EU and they now find, like the leavers, that they were mis-lead so if leavers get their Brexit then the Scots absolutely should get another referendum. Is Scotland’s democracy any less valid than the leaver’s? I guarantee the English and Welsh brexiteers would steamroller over that question in the same way polls are showing no-one gives a sh** about Northern Ireland. You do know that more Scots voted to Leave the EU than the number of Scots who voted for the SNP at the last GE. I’m not sure what difference that makes? The Scottish net result was to remain. Regardless of party politics the Scottish want to stay in the EU and they were promised that they would by “call me Dave”. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 20:56:58 GMT
The interesting thing about this debate is that when Brexit is not being discussed Boris really does not come across that well. Although in terms of balance to be fair the demographic in the audience is most definitely not Tory and he’s getting a tough ride off them which obviously isn’t helping.
Sturgeon has bossed this, seems way more rational than the lot of them put together.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 22:21:03 GMT
Really? She’s just a Scottish Farage! I’m not bothering to tune in to any of the debates and I suspect at least 90% of the population will have long known which way they were going to vote so all seems a bit pointless to me. It’s almost like film auditions and about who comes across best on the camera - surely it should be a vote based on political philosophies and what you hope are genuine manifesto pledges not acting/presentation skills? Fair point about voting based on presentation over substance but what she did well was convey the general principles the party stands for and they align with what I want to see from a Westminster government. It’s worth reiterating that they were denied the same democracy that the leavers complain about so she has every right to play the Farage role for Scotland. I would rather Scotland remain in the union but they were promised staying in the EU and they now find, like the leavers, that they were mis-lead so if leavers get their Brexit then the Scots absolutely should get another referendum. Is Scotland’s democracy any less valid than the leaver’s? I guarantee the English and Welsh brexiteers would steamroller over that question in the same way polls are showing no-one gives a sh** about Northern Ireland. I’m not bothered either way whether Scotland stay but perhaps it would be better if they left as the anti England sentiment seems to have grown over recent years. The SNP seem similar to many brexit remainers in that they want to keep having another vote until they get the outcome they want. Voting to reject independence was probably a blessing in disguise given most of their economic forecasting was based on North Sea oil prices. I think the brexit referendum would have genuinely been a once in a generation thing if the vote had been to remain and apart from Farage most people would have accepted the outcome and moved on. With Scottish independence the likes of Dirty Salmond and Jimmy Krankie won’t ever let go and will constantly be demanding fresh referendums every five minutes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 22:40:20 GMT
You do know that more Scots voted to Leave the EU than the number of Scots who voted for the SNP at the last GE. I’m not sure what difference that makes? The Scottish net result was to remain. Regardless of party politics the Scottish want to stay in the EU and they were promised that they would by “call me Dave”. They also voted to stay in the UK. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 22:47:57 GMT
I’m not sure what difference that makes? The Scottish net result was to remain. Regardless of party politics the Scottish want to stay in the EU and they were promised that they would by “call me Dave”. They also voted to stay in the UK. Whilst knowing that they would leave the EU? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 8:37:07 GMT
That "show" last night was as bad as the first debate. What was clear, to me at least, is the disdain the audiences held the political leaders with. Sturgeon looked relaxed and on top of her brief because she was only talking about one topic, Independence. She has been rehearsing those lines for years, so it wasnt surprising. If she had been pressed on the ACTUAL outcomes of the SNP being in government, I suspect she would have been less self assured. Sadly I find myself inching towards Nobby's position, at least based upon these two awful leadership presentations. f**k 'em all. Hopefully I can revert to taking some responsibility. This article from the Economist sums up where we are as a nation I fear. In 2020, Britain will be divided, damaged and diminished flip.it/cfKqKT |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 11:40:36 GMT
Get the w**ker Boris Johnson left speechless when confronted with his awful record on, well...everything flip.it/zCk3i1 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 11:49:25 GMT
That "show" last night was as bad as the first debate. What was clear, to me at least, is the disdain the audiences held the political leaders with. Sturgeon looked relaxed and on top of her brief because she was only talking about one topic, Independence. She has been rehearsing those lines for years, so it wasnt surprising. If she had been pressed on the ACTUAL outcomes of the SNP being in government, I suspect she would have been less self assured. Sadly I find myself inching towards Nobby's position, at least based upon these two awful leadership presentations. f**k 'em all. Hopefully I can revert to taking some responsibility. This article from the Economist sums up where we are as a nation I fear. In 2020, Britain will be divided, damaged and diminished flip.it/cfKqKTCan’t argue with that about well rehearsed lines but what got me was the ability to empathise with her description of how she saw Scotland suffer under Thatcher and how she couldn’t in good conscience help put Boris Johnson in office (which is going to resonate with a lot of people). Whilst admitting she has no love for Corbyn but is being pragmatic re: a deal with Corbyn under the right circumstances and, okay, there is potentially a big carrot in it for them I get that, but we don’t see enough compromise at the moment especially when you contrast that with Swinson who set her stall out to ally with nobody. I can’t get over how she risks the Brexit she allegedly doesn’t want because of her dislike of the leader of the only party she has any hope of stopping it with. So for me I knew I definitely wasn’t voting Tory or Brexit party before last night and after last night I definitely won’t be voting Lib Dem. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 11:53:03 GMT
Get the w**ker Boris Johnson left speechless when confronted with his awful record on, well...everything flip.it/zCk3i1I’ve seen it reported that he did alright last night, but the political commentators who are saying that seem to be making no reference to his lack of answers on how to combat poverty and, his biggest balls up, his attempt to lie his way out of the Russia report which he said would be released according to the proper schedule when the ‘usual’ schedule has long since been and gone. He is holding that report back for his own ends. Why? Who knows, but it doesn’t look good and his lying about it (after already being questioned on the importance of truth) looks even worse. Fair play to Johnson though, it’s being masterfully swept under the carpet. Those Russian millions eh? |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Nov 23, 2019 12:41:41 GMT
Get the w**ker Boris Johnson left speechless when confronted with his awful record on, well...everything flip.it/zCk3i1I’ve seen it reported that he did alright last night, but the political commentators who are saying that seem to be making no reference to his lack of answers on how to combat poverty and, his biggest balls up, his attempt to lie his way out of the Russia report which he said would be released according to the proper schedule when the ‘usual’ schedule has long since been and gone. He is holding that report back for his own ends. Why? Who knows, but it doesn’t look good and his lying about it (after already being questioned on the importance of truth) looks even worse. Fair play to Johnson though, it’s being masterfully swept under the carpet. Those Russian millions eh? Maybe they ought to pour salt on him and watch him turn inside out? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 13:14:49 GMT
I’ve seen it reported that he did alright last night, but the political commentators who are saying that seem to be making no reference to his lack of answers on how to combat poverty and, his biggest balls up, his attempt to lie his way out of the Russia report which he said would be released according to the proper schedule when the ‘usual’ schedule has long since been and gone. He is holding that report back for his own ends. Why? Who knows, but it doesn’t look good and his lying about it (after already being questioned on the importance of truth) looks even worse. Fair play to Johnson though, it’s being masterfully swept under the carpet. Those Russian millions eh? Maybe they ought to pour salt on him and watch him turn inside out? No fear. They cannot help but be incompetent. Tories in major blunder as they announce manifesto with wrong date flip.it/C6JaP6 |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Nov 23, 2019 13:20:18 GMT
Maybe they ought to pour salt on him and watch him turn inside out? No fear. They cannot help but be incompetent. Tories in major blunder as they announce manifesto with wrong date flip.it/C6JaP6No doubt Captain Blunder will lie his way out of that. Just like he has done every day of his life. |
|
|
|
Post by aghast on Nov 24, 2019 0:53:50 GMT
This section of the forum has taken a dangerous turn to the left in recent months.
Many are now daring to suggest that the Tories are actually self serving numpties, who might actually be willing to sacrifice the best path forward for the UK in favour of some dogmatic nonsense that died away long ago (apart from in the USA, of course).
A few of us were saying this stuff three years ago.
It's taken a while, but welcome nonetheless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 10:19:16 GMT
This section of the forum has taken a dangerous turn to the left in recent months. Many are now daring to suggest that the Tories are actually self serving numpties, who might actually be willing to sacrifice the best path forward for the UK in favour of some dogmatic nonsense that died away long ago (apart from in the USA, of course). A few of us were saying this stuff three years ago. It's taken a while, but welcome nonetheless. The Tories have always been self serving, that’s the very essence of who they are. A vote for them is literally a vote for the self and a Tory majority is the clearest indicator you can get of how selfish UK society is at any point in time. It feels like it’s never been less important to care about the wider community and have respect for those at the bottom who prop the whole system up, well unless there is an election on in which case the Tories magically became all things to all men for 4 weeks, no more so than Cameron’s “call me Dave” schtick which nearly had me proper fooled. Thankfully I did not vote in 2010 and I’m glad because it didn’t take long for the mask to slip. They’ve had 10 years in government, inequality is rampant and the NHS is f**ked and yet what depresses me is a certain sector of the UK (and we can pretty accurately describe their demographic) will never abandon them. Not helped by the polarising nature of Corbyn, granted but with Brexit things have got so entrenched that with the latest polls showing that Boris has *gained* after his car crash showing on Friday I think it would take nothing short of a miracle to have anything other than a right wing Tory government for another 10 years and I find that profoundly depressing. At this point in time, they can’t lose. Boris could go full Black Mirror and shag a pig on TV and it won’t change a thing. Personally, I yearn like f**k for change but I don’t know where that change will come from. What conditions would have to be in place for even a moderate left wing government to be elected that cares for everyone and not just the few? It seems impossible for the foreseeable future Kill me now  |
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Nov 24, 2019 11:33:10 GMT
This section of the forum has taken a dangerous turn to the left in recent months. Many are now daring to suggest that the Tories are actually self serving numpties, who might actually be willing to sacrifice the best path forward for the UK in favour of some dogmatic nonsense that died away long ago (apart from in the USA, of course). A few of us were saying this stuff three years ago. It's taken a while, but welcome nonetheless. What conditions would have to be in place for even a moderate left wing government to be elected that cares for everyone and not just the few? Well, for a start, there would have to be a moderate left wing party to vote for. A Labour party sans Jeremy Corbyn, who promised ( albeit reluctantly ) to honour the result of the 2016 referendum, would most probably see BJ consigned to political history. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 12:36:02 GMT
What conditions would have to be in place for even a moderate left wing government to be elected that cares for everyone and not just the few? Well, for a start, there would have to be a moderate left wing party to vote for. A Labour party sans Jeremy Corbyn, who promised ( albeit reluctantly ) to honour the result of the 2016 referendum, would most probably see BJ consigned to political history. Perhaps. Equally if Corbyn and Labour had campaigned vigorously to remain in 2016 we wouldn't be in this political sh** fest. All we would be left with is to pick up the mess the Tories gave created domestically over the last 9 years. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 15:18:07 GMT
What conditions would have to be in place for even a moderate left wing government to be elected that cares for everyone and not just the few? Well, for a start, there would have to be a moderate left wing party to vote for. A Labour party sans Jeremy Corbyn, who promised ( albeit reluctantly ) to honour the result of the 2016 referendum, would most probably see BJ consigned to political history. Totally agree that there is no option but I’m not sure it changes things. I read the other day that a YouGov poll from 2017 found that half of all leavers over 65 would still vote for brexit even if it meant a relative losing their job. When you are up against that sort of thinking it’s easy to see why winning an election is like shooting fish in a barrel for someone like Johnson and why he continues to make gains in the polls no matter what. I’m not sure softer left wing options would be any more palatable. The older generation holds British politics in a tight grip and with our average population age only going in an upward direction it’s hard to see where more left leaning politics is going to make any serious in-roads for a long while. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 15:26:14 GMT
In other news the IFS have weighed into the Tories and by their calculations seem to think that they won’t be able to fund their NHS spending plans because of their triple lock on tax. Now if this was Labour this would be shouted from the rooftops but it’s barely being talked about.
One BBC correspondent has pointed out that the Tories are spending 6 billion less but planning to recruit double the nurses that Labour are! Again, if this was Labour people would be making Diane Abbott jokes. Are we just so used to Tory lies that no-one is even bothering to concern themselves about it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 17:04:29 GMT
In other news the IFS have weighed into the Tories and by their calculations seem to think that they won’t be able to fund their NHS spending plans because of their triple lock on tax. Now if this was Labour this would be shouted from the rooftops but it’s barely being talked about. One BBC correspondent has pointed out that the Tories are spending 6 billion less but planning to recruit double the nurses that Labour are! Again, if this was Labour people would be making Diane Abbott jokes. Are we just so used to Tory lies that no-one is even bothering to concern themselves about it? It's up to us voters, not the media. Think for ourselves and the Tories are f**ked. Unless of course you cant add up and think waving the flag is patriotic. |
|
