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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 8:42:02 GMT
Lost cause. Complete lost cause. The only thing that will ever change minds is when it happens to them. If it ever does, I even doubt there would be a fleeting moment of reflection honestly. I don't know about you Officer, but I remember the 1970's and the power wielded by the Unions then. I remember the Labour government having to go to the IMF for a bailout because they had bankrupt the country. I remember the IMF only giving that bailout on condition that savage cuts were made to public spending. Nowadays we'd call it 'austerity'. Every single Nationalised industry was a complete disaster. So yes, it has happened to me, I remember it very well. The problem is that young people have never experienced a Socialist government. They never believe you when you tell them how bad it actually was. I too started full time work in the 70s. It was a very "grey" period. But it wasnt all down to inept Statist policies. It was less than 30 years after the end of the WW2 which had left us bankrupt. In 1950 the UK was, as an example, the 2nd largest car manufacturer, by volume after the USA. However we never properly invested in our manufacturing processes, whilst at the same time the Germans rebuilt their car industry from scratch, largely funded by the Americans. As a contra the Americans enforced the terms of the "lend lease" support they gave us, a value (I think I am right in saying) we never paid down until 2006. So the issues were far more complex than the headlines quoted here. |
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Post by William Wilson on Nov 25, 2019 8:53:26 GMT
Lost cause. Complete lost cause. The only thing that will ever change minds is when it happens to them. If it ever does, I even doubt there would be a fleeting moment of reflection honestly. I don't know about you Officer, but I remember the 1970's and the power wielded by the Unions then. I remember the Labour government having to go to the IMF for a bailout because they had bankrupt the country. I remember the IMF only giving that bailout on condition that savage cuts were made to public spending. Nowadays we'd call it 'austerity'. Every single Nationalised industry was a complete disaster. So yes, it has happened to me, I remember it very well. The problem is that young people have never experienced a Socialist government. They never believe you when you tell them how bad it actually was. Can you imagine our resident Private Frazer, if Corbyn did get elected? His keyboard would melt. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:08:00 GMT
Lost cause. Complete lost cause. The only thing that will ever change minds is when it happens to them. If it ever does, I even doubt there would be a fleeting moment of reflection honestly. I don't know about you Officer, but I remember the 1970's and the power wielded by the Unions then. I remember the Labour government having to go to the IMF for a bailout because they had bankrupt the country. I remember the IMF only giving that bailout on condition that savage cuts were made to public spending. Nowadays we'd call it 'austerity'. Every single Nationalised industry was a complete disaster. So yes, it has happened to me, I remember it very well. The problem is that young people have never experienced a Socialist government. They never believe you when you tell them how bad it actually was. Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:12:33 GMT
I don't know about you Officer, but I remember the 1970's and the power wielded by the Unions then. I remember the Labour government having to go to the IMF for a bailout because they had bankrupt the country. I remember the IMF only giving that bailout on condition that savage cuts were made to public spending. Nowadays we'd call it 'austerity'. Every single Nationalised industry was a complete disaster. So yes, it has happened to me, I remember it very well. The problem is that young people have never experienced a Socialist government. They never believe you when you tell them how bad it actually was. Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. Attack privatisation on commercial grounds. How much subsidy are the private companies getting from the tax payer? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:15:17 GMT
I don't know about you Officer, but I remember the 1970's and the power wielded by the Unions then. I remember the Labour government having to go to the IMF for a bailout because they had bankrupt the country. I remember the IMF only giving that bailout on condition that savage cuts were made to public spending. Nowadays we'd call it 'austerity'. Every single Nationalised industry was a complete disaster. So yes, it has happened to me, I remember it very well. The problem is that young people have never experienced a Socialist government. They never believe you when you tell them how bad it actually was. Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:17:39 GMT
Say someone was able to buy their first home under the Conservative government, and that same person works a job that is supported by the Tories, and they also voted to leave the EU......would the anti-tories on here begrudge that person for voting conservatives next month? I don’t begrudge anyone a vote for who they believe in. I was personally hoping that there would be more votes to other parties given how Johnson has conducted himself in office along with his and his parties record on austerity, homes not built, housing crisis, NHS f**ked etc. But despite all of that he continues to *gain* votes and for me, it’s a depressing indicator of the type of country we live in and the type of people who live in it when we are pretty much nailed on for Johnson and a very right wing government to have an overwhelming mandate for the next cycle. I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Left wing politics is not competitive in this country, extreme right wing politics is and I find that sad as I don’t see how it will change much going forward, unless Brexit is a total disaster but that will be one hell of a hospital pass for an incoming Labour/Lib dem government. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:18:54 GMT
Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? Why not sell it to the Americans then? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:26:51 GMT
Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? Also, we weren’t successful before we joined the EU, that hasn’t stopped you from supporting us leaving it though? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:35:21 GMT
Say someone was able to buy their first home under the Conservative government, and that same person works a job that is supported by the Tories, and they also voted to leave the EU......would the anti-tories on here begrudge that person for voting conservatives next month? I don’t begrudge anyone a vote for who they believe in. I was personally hoping that there would be more votes to other parties given how Johnson has conducted himself in office along with his and his parties record on austerity, homes not built, housing crisis, NHS f**ked etc. But despite all of that he continues to *gain* votes and for me, it’s a depressing indicator of the type of country we live in and the type of people who live in it when we are pretty much nailed on for Johnson and a very right wing government to have an overwhelming mandate for the next cycle. I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Left wing politics is not competitive in this country, extreme right wing politics is and I find that sad as I don’t see how it will change much going forward, unless Brexit is a total disaster but that will be one hell of a hospital pass for an incoming Labour/Lib dem government. In the short time Boris has been in his position what particular aspects of his conducts have bothered you so much? People from all walks of life will vote Tory for various reasons and negative generalisations like “depressing indicator of the type of people who live in this country” does nothing but encourage the great division and resentment across UK political views at the moment. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:45:16 GMT
I don’t begrudge anyone a vote for who they believe in. I was personally hoping that there would be more votes to other parties given how Johnson has conducted himself in office along with his and his parties record on austerity, homes not built, housing crisis, NHS f**ked etc. But despite all of that he continues to *gain* votes and for me, it’s a depressing indicator of the type of country we live in and the type of people who live in it when we are pretty much nailed on for Johnson and a very right wing government to have an overwhelming mandate for the next cycle. I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Left wing politics is not competitive in this country, extreme right wing politics is and I find that sad as I don’t see how it will change much going forward, unless Brexit is a total disaster but that will be one hell of a hospital pass for an incoming Labour/Lib dem government. In the short time Boris has been in his position what particular aspects of his conducts have bothered you so much? People from all walks of life will vote Tory for various reasons and negative generalisations like “depressing indicator of the type of people who live in this country” does nothing but encourage the great division and resentment across UK political views at the moment. He mis-lead the Queen for a start. In fact I think we can start and end that conversation there. I think it’s totally fair to talk about what kind of society it makes us. Even Dominic Cummings himself said: “That is what most people in the country have thought about the Tory party for decades. I know a lot of Tory MPs and I am sad to say the public is basically correct. Tory MPs largely do not care about these poorer people. They don’t care about the NHS.” Despite all that they can’t fail to be elected. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 9:54:04 GMT
Now I’m not saying that I agree with going full nationalisation, but would nationalising the railways in particular be a bad idea? That service in particular is nothing short of a disgrace when you compare the cost of fares (and their annual above inflation fare rises) to the quality of service (particularly in Brighton) and if the train companies themselves seem incapable of reforming to provide a decent service then the government should absolutely be looking to step in. Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? The NHS? Considering the funding differential compared with our peers, its holding up reasonably. Imagine what they could do if its properly funded... |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 25, 2019 10:08:18 GMT
I don’t begrudge anyone a vote for who they believe in. I was personally hoping that there would be more votes to other parties given how Johnson has conducted himself in office along with his and his parties record on austerity, homes not built, housing crisis, NHS f**ked etc. But despite all of that he continues to *gain* votes and for me, it’s a depressing indicator of the type of country we live in and the type of people who live in it when we are pretty much nailed on for Johnson and a very right wing government to have an overwhelming mandate for the next cycle. I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Left wing politics is not competitive in this country, extreme right wing politics is and I find that sad as I don’t see how it will change much going forward, unless Brexit is a total disaster but that will be one hell of a hospital pass for an incoming Labour/Lib dem government. In the short time Boris has been in his position what particular aspects of his conducts have bothered you so much? People from all walks of life will vote Tory for various reasons and negative generalisations like “depressing indicator of the type of people who live in this country” does nothing but encourage the great division and resentment across UK political views at the moment. lying about his reasons for suspending parliament.
What about pulling his own bill on Brexit that was going through the commons and blaming everyone else and now dressing it up as ready to go and oven ready
dodging questions on the Russia report
dressing up a vote for The Tories to rebuild the country, the NHS, infrastructure etc without having the humility to admit it was a Tory Government that have cut Police numbers or local Government funding etc etc, whether he was in charge or not. (The Tory manifesto is as much an opposition to Government manifesto as Labour in some respects)
how about that for a starter for 10
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 10:47:04 GMT
Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? Also, we weren’t successful before we joined the EU, that hasn’t stopped you from supporting us leaving it though? I think you'll find that historically the UK has been one of the most successful countries on the planet ! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 11:11:24 GMT
Also, we weren’t successful before we joined the EU, that hasn’t stopped you from supporting us leaving it though? I think you'll find that historically the UK has been one of the most successful countries on the planet ! Might call it something else...but you cannot claim that after 1945 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 11:17:45 GMT
Not a single nationalised company/industry has ever been successful, not one. You could argue that the NHS is a 'nationalised' company. How's that going? Why not sell it to the Americans then? Please, this 'sell it to the Americans' is just six-form student stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 11:20:17 GMT
Say someone was able to buy their first home under the Conservative government, and that same person works a job that is supported by the Tories, and they also voted to leave the EU......would the anti-tories on here begrudge that person for voting conservatives next month? I don’t begrudge anyone a vote for who they believe in. I was personally hoping that there would be more votes to other parties given how Johnson has conducted himself in office along with his and his parties record on austerity, homes not built, housing crisis, NHS f**ked etc. But despite all of that he continues to *gain* votes and for me, it’s a depressing indicator of the type of country we live in and the type of people who live in it when we are pretty much nailed on for Johnson and a very right wing government to have an overwhelming mandate for the next cycle. I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Left wing politics is not competitive in this country, extreme right wing politics is and I find that sad as I don’t see how it will change much going forward, unless Brexit is a total disaster but that will be one hell of a hospital pass for an incoming Labour/Lib dem government. Stop with this 'extreme right-wing' nonsense. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 11:31:44 GMT
In the short time Boris has been in his position what particular aspects of his conducts have bothered you so much? People from all walks of life will vote Tory for various reasons and negative generalisations like “depressing indicator of the type of people who live in this country” does nothing but encourage the great division and resentment across UK political views at the moment. lying about his reasons for suspending parliament.
What about pulling his own bill on Brexit that was going through the commons and blaming everyone else and now dressing it up as ready to go and oven ready
dodging questions on the Russia report
dressing up a vote for The Tories to rebuild the country, the NHS, infrastructure etc without having the humility to admit it was a Tory Government that have cut Police numbers or local Government funding etc etc, whether he was in charge or not. (The Tory manifesto is as much an opposition to Government manifesto as Labour in some respects)
how about that for a starter for 10
Whether these are true or not it’s nothing out of the ordinary to the standard level of conduct for pretty much every PM this country has ever had. Didn’t the great Tony Blair take us in to war on the basis of misinformation and lies? Do governments make good on every pledge they ever make? Boris seems to have been expected to achieve a far higher level of conduct than anyone in history by those on the left who wish to make a mountain of a molehill on everything he does, this is the era we are in which is following the Americans in that rather than promote positive ideas of their own parties the first port of call is to go digging for dirt, mud slinging and anything to discredit the opposition. |
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Post by peterparker on Nov 25, 2019 12:04:49 GMT
lying about his reasons for suspending parliament.
What about pulling his own bill on Brexit that was going through the commons and blaming everyone else and now dressing it up as ready to go and oven ready
dodging questions on the Russia report
dressing up a vote for The Tories to rebuild the country, the NHS, infrastructure etc without having the humility to admit it was a Tory Government that have cut Police numbers or local Government funding etc etc, whether he was in charge or not. (The Tory manifesto is as much an opposition to Government manifesto as Labour in some respects)
how about that for a starter for 10
Whether these are true or not it’s nothing out of the ordinary to the standard level of conduct for pretty much every PM this country has ever had. Didn’t the great Tony Blair take us in to war on the basis of misinformation and lies? Do governments make good on every pledge they ever make? Boris seems to have been expected to achieve a far higher level of conduct than anyone in history by those on the left who wish to make a mountain of a molehill on everything he does, this is the era we are in which is following the Americans in that rather than promote positive ideas of their own parties the first port of call is to go digging for dirt, mud slinging and anything to discredit the opposition. a lot of people still don't have anytime for Tony Blair because of Iraq and won't give anything he says the time of day
People can make mistakes and do wrong and come back from them. I don't think Boris Johnson is held to a higher standard, just that he form for multiple infractions shall we say. It's well known he had two versions of his column about remain or leave and he was always going to side with what his best option is, because his sole aim is to be PM and nothing else
What annoys me is how Boris Johnson and members of his cabinet (Mogg, Patel, Raab) can show little to no humility for the policies the Tory Government has enacted in the past 9 years, whilst now portraying themselves as some sort of bastion of new hope and they can just get away with it.
I'd much prefer them to hold their hands up and say yeah, we did it and present their new case and not just pretend 9 years never happened. Their whole election pitch is one of opposition to the things they have done, but they can't point the finger at themselves unlike the other parties
The gulf in class between some of the politicians is incredible.
Brexit has been a mess, people like Dominic Grieve or David Gauke may have changed their minds and may pay the price, but they have stood up for what they believe to be right whatever anyone's views on their politics and will now be replaced by sycophants.
Sir Oliver Letwin and Ken Clarke again, often questionable politics for some, but men who have stood up for parliamentary procedure. A huge gulf in class between him and Boris Johnson and the many chancers, and spivs who occupy the cabinet right now.
These are people who were in The Conservatives who cannot even stand the direction their party is taking. Many of them will/would probably applaud the policies he has proposed but I doubt they believe he is capable of achieving it and even think themselves Boris Johnson is unfit to be PM. People in his own parties let alone Joe Public
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Post by William Wilson on Nov 25, 2019 12:17:36 GMT
Say someone was able to buy their first home under the Conservative government, and that same person works a job that is supported by the Tories, and they also voted to leave the EU......would the anti-tories on here begrudge that person for voting conservatives next month? I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Some skeletons in the cupboard?? Like Hitler had "some" problems controlling his temper? If that`s how you see things, no wonder you`re struggling to comprehend why so many people appear to be leaning towards BJ. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2019 12:31:15 GMT
I accept that Labour are struggling with credibility and Corbyn seems to have some skeletons in the cupboard but I’m not sure the result would be too much different if they were slightly less socialist and had, I dunno, Ed Miliband back in charge. Some skeletons in the cupboard?? Like Hitler had "some" problems controlling his temper? If that`s how you see things, no wonder you`re struggling to comprehend why so many people appear to be leaning towards BJ. Perhaps How about Rees-Mogg inferring the victims of Grenfell were stupid for following instruction? Political viewpoints are one thing..but |
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