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Post by althepirate on Dec 29, 2019 10:46:16 GMT
I watched the recent Starnes interview and thought he was very genuine and straight talking especially about his ambitions for the club. Do you believe he wasn't? As in Starnes or Garner, and in respect of what? Well he stated he came here to get Championship football dont you believe him? or perhaps it's Topper that doesnt? They were amazingly efficient in replacing the Manager, Starnes did everything he said he would in an even faster time scale. If we had appointed from within people would have said 'cheap option' which they said about GC and DC both huge successes. If they had appointed an experienced Manager fans would have said our record doing that has been a disaster, which it has. There is a massive mistrust amongst some of our fans towards the owners/management, not difficult to see why concerning the stadium, but do we have to jump on their every action as being dishonest and insincere? |
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Post by madgas on Dec 29, 2019 10:48:55 GMT
I am no fan of the board, but surely the cheapest option would have been the people we already have at the club, such as Hargreaves and Mansell. Perhaps he was the person who was the best for the job in terms of bringing young players through and contacts in football to get loans etc. Didn’t we approach Nathan Jones first? Certainly not a cheap option. Hargreaves is clearly happy managing the kids, he seems to have no interest in the managers job, or the other candidates a manager desperate to get into management with zero managerail experience is always going to be the cheaper option. The acid test around the owners ambitions will come in January around what happens with JCH, fans pretending the owners are desperate to get us promoted only have to look back on how GC (wasn't) backed in the summer. Signed 9 players. Max budget per FFP. And what if Jonno wants to move? There arent many examples of players being kept against their will. I think it's silly to constantly take an absolute view. The owners are doing ok- for the time being however- we are desperate need of stadium and until one is built that is the stick the smack them with... not selling players. |
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Post by Dr Gas on Dec 29, 2019 11:11:27 GMT
I agree. Who, in their right mind, would come to a club where the board effectively say, or give the impression that, "If we appoint you, you must not win too many matches because we do not want to get promoted."? The board have to sell the club as having great potential. This particularly applies to Rovers, as Wael has not had a piggy back for some time and is starting to mope, which is irritating the family.  This is even more borne out by the fact that a young manager, especially one in his first managerial role, would most definitely not take on a job where he knew he could not enhance his worth. Indeed, I would opine that he would look at it as jumping on a partially made chance of gaining promotion. This is an old chestnut that does the rounds every time a team stutters and chokes. He wouldn't take a job where he would enhance his worth? I strongly suspect it's a case of taking what he can get, and would assume he's applied for numerous lower league managerial roles over the years and always been overlooked. We would have held all the cards in the negotiation and I think it's fair to say he's entered management in a lofty height he wouldn't have dreamed of. So you think a young manager for his first job would set himself up for a fall? At least we agree that he has struck lucky with the league position he takes on. |
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Post by oldgas on Dec 29, 2019 11:18:46 GMT
I think graham knows he made a mistake and realised that quite quickly, sadly for him the option of staying was taken away Heard he was begging for his job back the following morning. Really? Who told you that? |
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 29, 2019 11:34:34 GMT
He wouldn't take a job where he would enhance his worth? I strongly suspect it's a case of taking what he can get, and would assume he's applied for numerous lower league managerial roles over the years and always been overlooked. We would have held all the cards in the negotiation and I think it's fair to say he's entered management in a lofty height he wouldn't have dreamed of. So you think a young manager for his first job would set himself up for a fall? At least we agree that he has struck lucky with the league position he takes on. He's been out of work for the most of the last 2 years, assuming he has a mortgage to pay & partner to keep happy he's hardly in a position to pick and choose work. I bet he couldn't believe his luck when we offered him a job. |
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 29, 2019 11:41:39 GMT
So you think a young manager for his first job would set himself up for a fall? At least we agree that he has struck lucky with the league position he takes on. He's been out of work for the most of the last 2 years, assuming he has a mortgage to pay & partner to keep happy he's hardly in a position to pick and choose work. I bet he couldn't believe his luck when we offered him a job. Hasn't he been studying top managers over that period?? Arterta has no experience as a manager, but he's good enough for a Premier League team. You do realise we are Bristol Rovers. It is a gamble, but a gamble that suits both parties. When we've appointed experienced managers, we have done worse. Who would you have appointed, out of interest?? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:05:27 GMT
As in Starnes or Garner, and in respect of what? Well he stated he came here to get Championship football dont you believe him? or perhaps it's Topper that doesnt? They were amazingly efficient in replacing the Manager, Starnes did everything he said he would in an even faster time scale. If we had appointed from within people would have said 'cheap option' which they said about GC and DC both huge successes. If they had appointed an experienced Manager fans would have said our record doing that has been a disaster, which it has. There is a massive mistrust amongst some of our fans towards the owners/management, not difficult to see why concerning the stadium, but do we have to jump on their every action as being dishonest and insincere? I've defended the board numerous times on here and think they have good intentions. It's not about dishonesty or insincerity for me, I've just questioned whether the decision to appoint someone with no experience playing, coaching or managing in the lower league is a wise move. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:08:06 GMT
He's been out of work for the most of the last 2 years, assuming he has a mortgage to pay & partner to keep happy he's hardly in a position to pick and choose work. I bet he couldn't believe his luck when we offered him a job. Hasn't he been studying top managers over that period?? Arterta has no experience as a manager, but he's good enough for a Premier League team. You do realise we are Bristol Rovers. It is a gamble, but a gamble that suits both parties. When we've appointed experienced managers, we have done worse. Who would you have appointed, out of interest?? Studying is one thing, having leadership traits and experience is quite another. Arteta was a leader as a player and has operated in the Premier League environment for numerous years. I think it's somewhat different but of course, a gamble. |
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 29, 2019 12:20:13 GMT
Hasn't he been studying top managers over that period?? Arterta has no experience as a manager, but he's good enough for a Premier League team. You do realise we are Bristol Rovers. It is a gamble, but a gamble that suits both parties. When we've appointed experienced managers, we have done worse. Who would you have appointed, out of interest?? Studying is one thing, having leadership traits and experience is quite another. Arteta was a leader as a player and has operated in the Premier League environment for numerous years. I think it's somewhat different but of course, a gamble. He wouldn't have been trusted to take training at a Premier League club, from Monday to Thursday, if he didn't have any of those traits. Not only Lambert has praised him, Darren Fletcher did as well, think he's worked under some good manager's. I agree management is different, that's why it's a gamble. But it's the same for Arterta. Some great player's have been awful managers and some awful player's, have been great managers. Apparently he turned down Bradford, when they were in league 1, because he wouldn't have had enough control. He's highly rated as a coach, if it wasn't a bit of a gamble, we wouldn't have got him! It works both ways. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:22:59 GMT
Studying is one thing, having leadership traits and experience is quite another. Arteta was a leader as a player and has operated in the Premier League environment for numerous years. I think it's somewhat different but of course, a gamble. He wouldn't have been trusted to take training at a Premier League club, from Monday to Thursday, if he didn't have any of those traits. Not only Lambert has praised him, Darren Fletcher did as well, think he's worked under some good manager's. I agree management is different, that's why it's a gamble. But it's the same for Arterta. Some great player's have been awful managers and some awful player's, have been great managers. Apparently he turned down Bradford, when they were in league 1, because he wouldn't have had enough control. He's highly rated as a coach, if it wasn't a bit of a gamble, we wouldn't have got him! It works both ways. Coaching and the delegation of overseeing training isn't management though Daniel. It sounds like he was effective and liked by some of those he worked with in that role. This role will be considerably different. |
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Post by BishopstonBRFC on Dec 29, 2019 12:27:23 GMT
He wouldn't have been trusted to take training at a Premier League club, from Monday to Thursday, if he didn't have any of those traits. Not only Lambert has praised him, Darren Fletcher did as well, think he's worked under some good manager's. I agree management is different, that's why it's a gamble. But it's the same for Arterta. Some great player's have been awful managers and some awful player's, have been great managers. Apparently he turned down Bradford, when they were in league 1, because he wouldn't have had enough control. He's highly rated as a coach, if it wasn't a bit of a gamble, we wouldn't have got him! It works both ways. Coaching and the delegation of overseeing training isn't management though Daniel. It sounds like he was effective and liked by some of those he worked with in that role. This role will be considerably different. How many teams had Coughlan managed before us? Or Trollope? Eventually someone needs to give a coach a chance to manage to move to the next level. It seems you're just determined to find fault in this appointment. |
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 29, 2019 12:31:21 GMT
He wouldn't have been trusted to take training at a Premier League club, from Monday to Thursday, if he didn't have any of those traits. Not only Lambert has praised him, Darren Fletcher did as well, think he's worked under some good manager's. I agree management is different, that's why it's a gamble. But it's the same for Arterta. Some great player's have been awful managers and some awful player's, have been great managers. Apparently he turned down Bradford, when they were in league 1, because he wouldn't have had enough control. He's highly rated as a coach, if it wasn't a bit of a gamble, we wouldn't have got him! It works both ways. Coaching and the delegation of overseeing training isn't management though Daniel. It sounds like he was effective and liked by some of those he worked with in that role. This role will be considerably different. I know. Same for Arterta though, that's my point. Garner did take charge of development games and friendlies etc. Not the same as competitive football. He's also got his pro licences and the League Managers Association diploma in applied management. Again that is just theory and no guarantee, that he will make it as a manger. I don't think many could have studied more before there first chance though. He's worked hard for this, put a lot of time and effort into it. Hopefully it will work out good for us. Either way I doubt he will be here at the end of his contact. If he does rubbish, he will be gone. If he does well, with his background a championship club, will take a chance on him. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 29, 2019 12:48:45 GMT
Well he stated he came here to get Championship football dont you believe him? or perhaps it's Topper that doesnt? They were amazingly efficient in replacing the Manager, Starnes did everything he said he would in an even faster time scale. If we had appointed from within people would have said 'cheap option' which they said about GC and DC both huge successes. If they had appointed an experienced Manager fans would have said our record doing that has been a disaster, which it has. There is a massive mistrust amongst some of our fans towards the owners/management, not difficult to see why concerning the stadium, but do we have to jump on their every action as being dishonest and insincere? I've defended the board numerous times on here and think they have good intentions. It's not about dishonesty or insincerity for me, I've just questioned whether the decision to appoint someone with no experience playing, coaching or managing in the lower league is a wise move. Sorry about that I think my post should have been aimed at others who moan at everything our board does. Respect your opinion I don't think you're being negative, just having the courage to speak up before anything goes wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 12:52:36 GMT
Coaching and the delegation of overseeing training isn't management though Daniel. It sounds like he was effective and liked by some of those he worked with in that role. This role will be considerably different. How many teams had Coughlan managed before us? Or Trollope? Eventually someone needs to give a coach a chance to manage to move to the next level. It seems you're just determined to find fault in this appointment. Coughlan spent the majority of his playing career in the lower leagues and was a captain/leader. That experience was evident is the way we set up IMO. My take on BG has been consistent. I'd feel a whole lot better if he'd have gained managerial experience elsewhere and made an impact. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 13:02:50 GMT
Coaching and the delegation of overseeing training isn't management though Daniel. It sounds like he was effective and liked by some of those he worked with in that role. This role will be considerably different. How many teams had Coughlan managed before us? Or Trollope? Eventually someone needs to give a coach a chance to manage to move to the next level. It seems you're just determined to find fault in this appointment. Coughlan was given temporary charge and won a few games and was rewarded with the full time gig. Where was the issue with doing the same again this time round given the result and performance against Peterborough? It didn’t look broke against them, it looked broke by the time we played Wimbledon. It feels to me like we rushed in here in appointing someone with no previous managerial experience whilst in good form and aiming for promotion. Garner is the sort of appointment you make in the close season not when you already have something to lose. |
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Post by Dr Gas on Dec 29, 2019 13:04:57 GMT
So you think a young manager for his first job would set himself up for a fall? At least we agree that he has struck lucky with the league position he takes on. He's been out of work for the most of the last 2 years, assuming he has a mortgage to pay & partner to keep happy he's hardly in a position to pick and choose work. I bet he couldn't believe his luck when we offered him a job. He was out of work for just over a year. While that may be "the most of the last 2 years", he did have the chance of employment, with Bradford City but turned it down as they did not have the ambition that he had. The fact that he was able to do that does not suggest to me that he was struggling to pay a mortgage etc. He has been working in India for the best part of the last 12 months. |
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Post by madgas on Dec 29, 2019 13:23:17 GMT
Again- amazed by people choosing to believe stuff they've made up...
"The cheap option"
"Inexperience = bad"
What does the cheap option mean? We haven't gone for Phil Brown? The board previously paid DC- rightly so the highest a manager has earnt here. I think if there is one position the board have proven they will spend is coaching. The coaching staff has expanded considerably since Qadi regime began.
Inexperience = bad. Strange math. Look clearly this is a risk. But the bloke has a record in football that adds up: to worth a shot. Personally- I like that if he does well- he'll always have done it first at rovers. Personally I think theres something a little unfun in appointing Mourinho as spurs for example. Yes, I expect spurs to get a trophy at some point but it feels copycat. Finally- proven managers dont appear to work out at the gas anyway
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Post by baggins on Dec 29, 2019 13:28:13 GMT
He's gone. Let's move on.
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 29, 2019 13:39:46 GMT
How many teams had Coughlan managed before us? Or Trollope? Eventually someone needs to give a coach a chance to manage to move to the next level. It seems you're just determined to find fault in this appointment. Coughlan was given temporary charge and won a few games and was rewarded with the full time gig. Where was the issue with doing the same again this time round given the result and performance against Peterborough? It didn’t look broke against them, it looked broke by the time we played Wimbledon. It feels to me like we rushed in here in appointing someone with no previous managerial experience whilst in good form and aiming for promotion. Garner is the sort of appointment you make in the close season not when you already have something to lose. It looked no different against AFC, than it did against Bolton, Plymouth, the non league side, Orient etc. We just had a little bit less luck. We have rode our luck in many games and have been over achieving. It wouldn't break after one training session lol. We won't know how it will work out, until further down the line. AFC would have went like that, who ever was in charge. As no one would have had time to change things and I think most would have picked that side. |
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Post by madgas on Dec 29, 2019 14:20:25 GMT
On Hardgreaves?
Now this is as made up as everything else on here but do we think that Chris' sideways move is linked to his son. As development manager he wouldve overseen his son more than anyone else. At this stage it's likely not a benefit for either party. I get that their countless examples of nepotism in football. And I wouldn't believe that this would or should rule him out as first team manager. However- I think that could explain the move between academy and development squad.
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