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Post by inee on Dec 23, 2019 1:45:31 GMT
Re The Justice System here are a few examples from Bristol Court cases during one week earlier this month. There were 3 convictions for assaulting Police Officers. One got a curfew and £325 fine, one got 50 hours unpaid work and a £275 fine while another got a ‘Rehab Activity Requirement’ with a £190 fine. Another 1 was deemed a bit more serious and resulted in ‘Rehab’, 120 hours unpaid work and a £240 fine. There were 3 convictions for disposing of a cigarette incorrectly. They got a £220 fine, a £220 fine and £472 fine respectively. So we have a justice system that seems to think that dropping a cigarette butt is just as serious as assaulting a police officer. Is it any wonder there is so much crime and lack of respect for the law? There were also 2 cases of deliberate benefit fraud. Another case of benefit fraud amounting to £90,000 led to the individual having two years added to a current sentence for sex offences. Of course some think there is little or no benefit fraud and everyone claiming is honest and entitled. Having several cases in just one week in one very small area would suggest there is a very significant problem which needs addressing. Nobody should bury their heads in the sand about this - every penny fraudulently claimed takes money out the pot available to those genuinely in need or requires those paying tax have to pay more. That's incredible, I had no idea this was happening. How on earth did we arrive here? The justice system seems to forget that punishment isn't just for the culprit but for the rest of us to deter us from doing the same. I cannot see how these punishments are a deterrent at all. Even worse is if you are being tried for multiple offences which have tariffs of say 2 years 5, years and 10 years, a lot of the time instead of a sentence of 17 years , the judge will have the sentences run concurrently which reduces the 17 years to 10 years,which 9 times out of 10 you will be back on the streets in 5 years. You are quite correct the deternt just isn't there |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Dec 23, 2019 6:29:39 GMT
Surely we can all react, as long as we stick to voicing our opinions without insult, rancour, aggression or, er, anything else bad. Personally, I agree with everything Inee said, apart from nurses wearing their uniforms home. I like nurses in uniform. So true William, that is where Oldie struggles with insults, aggression, rancour and everything bad. Hopefully we can educate him through these pages. Well we can try. And yet here you are with insults also. Glass houses and all that. Please keep it civil. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 7:00:38 GMT
PR can also provide some odd results. Most countries with a form of PR require a party to get a minimum 5% of the total vote share before they get any seats in Parliament. In the last Election the SNP only got 4.3% meaning that under PR they would have NO seats in the House.
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Post by althepirate on Dec 23, 2019 7:28:45 GMT
So true William, that is where Oldie struggles with insults, aggression, rancour and everything bad. Hopefully we can educate him through these pages. Well we can try. And yet here you are with insults also. Glass houses and all that. Please keep it civil. Not insults from me at all Hugo I'm only saying the facts and just saying we are trying to make him a bit more pleasant, if possible. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 23, 2019 8:16:28 GMT
Nor could I ever agree that criminals should have their food served to them from the floor like animals. It beggars belief doesnt it We`re not part of a Kafka novel; nor are we the Soviet Union circa 1933. People are in prison for a reason. Bad things should happen to bad people. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 8:35:20 GMT
And yet here you are with insults also. Glass houses and all that. Please keep it civil. Not insults from me at all Hugo I'm only saying the facts and just saying we are trying to make him a bit more pleasant, if possible. Thanks for acknowledging it Hugo. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 23, 2019 8:51:01 GMT
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky
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Post by althepirate on Dec 23, 2019 9:37:16 GMT
The 'How to improve someone's behaviour is one of the great mysteries of mankind' generally removing something they like has some affect, but not always.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 11:05:31 GMT
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky Indeed sir |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 11:20:30 GMT
Reading the comments on here over the UK Justice System, it occured to me that quite a few cannot distinguish between justice and revenge.
A bit of help from Francis Bacon
"Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior. This is certain, that a man that studieth revenge keeps his wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well."
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 23, 2019 11:46:33 GMT
Reading the comments on here over the UK Justice System, it occured to me that quite a few cannot distinguish between justice and revenge. A bit of help from Francis Bacon "Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior. This is certain, that a man that studieth revenge keeps his wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well." When the late Georgians and early Victorians reviewed the penal codes, many harsh punishments were downgraded. As a result the conviction rate increased as juries no longer feared a miscarriage of justice in the same way. There is a case to suggest harsher treatment in prison will lead to fewer convictions. There is a balance to strike and going too far in either direction will not result in what was intended. |
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Post by baggins on Dec 23, 2019 11:58:42 GMT
I'd like to see more effort into preventing British born citizens screwing the benefits system. Never paid a penny in tax, never contributed to our society in any form, but still get free NHS treatment.
Oh, and increase the number of prisons and prison Officers so we can lock criminals up for a decent amount of time.
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Post by baggins on Dec 23, 2019 12:11:12 GMT
NHS: Free only to those who are born here or immigrants who work the rest of the world can curl up and die, also as for treating foreigners it should be like for like as an example you get ill on the moon and get treatment free then moon dwellers should get free treatment here, as for spending get rid of a layer or two of management ,bring back the old matron types , oh and stop nhs staff who treat patients from wearing their uniforms home ,i mean whats the point of staff trying to be clean when they sit on the bus in their work clothes Immigration: People should be able to come to this country to live and work only if they have a job in the uk that cant be filled by someone already here, and must be healthy ,if they get terminally ill send em home Criminal justice: Sentencing needs looking at really ,sentencing is a fecking joke in this country, some judges will give minimum sentences or non custodial sentences continually especially with serious crimes ,these judges should be neck shot. sentencing should be consistent whats the point in having tariffs for crime if this is seldom adhered to, and crime involving kids or sexual assault should result in the old spandau ballet coming back, or having their knob cut off via ball pein hammer and slowly bleeding out, 3 strikes and you are out as in some parts of the world, segregating prisoners will not work as if you get a custodial sentence then you will already be a long way down to the road to being a professional criminal, stop jails being a cushy number for a lot of people, lock em up for days at a time with no exercise, chuck their food on the floor make it unpleasant as you will be less inclined to go back So, let immigrants who can work, and do work here, stay, pay tax, but if they fall terminally ill, send them home? So, an Indian heart specialist, brain surgeon, can stay as long as he/she doesn't fall ill? Am I reading that right? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 12:16:26 GMT
Reading the comments on here over the UK Justice System, it occured to me that quite a few cannot distinguish between justice and revenge. A bit of help from Francis Bacon "Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior. This is certain, that a man that studieth revenge keeps his wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well." When the late Georgians and early Victorians reviewed the penal codes, many harsh punishments were downgraded. As a result the conviction rate increased as juries no longer feared a miscarriage of justice in the same way. There is a case to suggest harsher treatment in prison will lead to fewer convictions. There is a balance to strike and going too far in either direction will not result in what was intended. Indeed. Just consider our prison population compared with other OECD peers |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 23, 2019 13:09:46 GMT
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky Well, he would say that, wouldn`t he? He spent long enough in one. More than one. Nowadays, Raskolnikov would be given a two year suspended, and be free as a bird to commit more murders. |
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 23, 2019 13:21:47 GMT
Reading the comments on here over the UK Justice System, it occured to me that quite a few cannot distinguish between justice and revenge. A bit of help from Francis Bacon "Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior. This is certain, that a man that studieth revenge keeps his wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well." Revenge doesn`t come into it, as far as I`m concerned. Why should it? Nobody`s ever done anything seriously bad to me. But, contrary to the assertions that our resident Pollyanna has made, I do believe that harsher conditions in prison, will make certain people think before committing their crimes. I do feel that more time is devoted to the perpetrators of criminal activity, and not enough to their victims. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 15:55:18 GMT
Reading the comments on here over the UK Justice System, it occured to me that quite a few cannot distinguish between justice and revenge. A bit of help from Francis Bacon "Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior. This is certain, that a man that studieth revenge keeps his wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well." Revenge doesn`t come into it, as far as I`m concerned. Why should it? Nobody`s ever done anything seriously bad to me. But, contrary to the assertions that our resident Pollyanna has made, I do believe that harsher conditions in prison, will make certain people think before committing their crimes. I do feel that more time is devoted to the perpetrators of criminal activity, and not enough to their victims. Beyond thinking it, do you have any statistics to back up your "beliefs"? |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 23, 2019 16:57:36 GMT
Revenge doesn`t come into it, as far as I`m concerned. Why should it? Nobody`s ever done anything seriously bad to me. But, contrary to the assertions that our resident Pollyanna has made, I do believe that harsher conditions in prison, will make certain people think before committing their crimes. I do feel that more time is devoted to the perpetrators of criminal activity, and not enough to their victims. Beyond thinking it, do you have any statistics to back up your "beliefs"? Oldie, you always look for stats for the future i.e Brexit now harsher crimes?? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 17:30:35 GMT
Beyond thinking it, do you have any statistics to back up your "beliefs"? Oldie, you always look for stats for the future i.e Brexit now harsher crimes?? Not at all. Just looking for the evidence that harsher sentences reduce crime. A pretty straightforward request to those demanding those sentences. Ta. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 23, 2019 18:42:07 GMT
Oldie, you always look for stats for the future i.e Brexit now harsher crimes?? Not at all. Just looking for the evidence that harsher sentences reduce crime. A pretty straightforward request to those demanding those sentences. Ta. I have no statistics but I do have some experience. I've been to a few prisons in my time including Horfield a number of times and Leyhill too. Horfield is pretty bloody grim. Leyhill was better but it's open and certainly no summer camp. Not as a prisoner by the way. Also been to Eastwood park and Vinney Green - Eastwood park especially is awful. |
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