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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 30, 2019 17:24:39 GMT
How about... The working classes are too dense to be trusted with anything, and need to be insulted until they choose the path of enlightenment. Oldie and Gas365 could really get their teeth into that one. We've had that for months William. We could have.... 'Now that's what I call copying and pasting' Seriously though, you said you're now proud again to be British. So what is it that makes you feel proud? |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 30, 2019 17:48:21 GMT
We've had that for months William. We could have.... 'Now that's what I call copying and pasting' Seriously though, you said you're now proud again to be British. So what is it that makes you feel proud? Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 18:39:32 GMT
Seriously though, you said you're now proud again to be British. So what is it that makes you feel proud? Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? A genuine question Al, have you ever lived and worked in another country for any length of time? |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 30, 2019 18:40:02 GMT
Seriously though, you said you're now proud again to be British. So what is it that makes you feel proud? Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? why are you finding it so difficult to just say why you have had your pride recently restored? Your words. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 30, 2019 18:41:34 GMT
Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? A genuine question Al, have you ever lived and worked in another country for any length of time? Not a chance. He talks like everyone loves it here and the only reason he is given is because people are fleeing war so it must be good! All the immigrants I know closely (maybe 10ish) cant wait to leave! Before you say 'off you go then', they are all doctors and paramedics. But they will. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 18:47:34 GMT
A genuine question Al, have you ever lived and worked in another country for any length of time? Not a chance. He talks like everyone loves it here and the only reason he is given is because people are fleeing war so it must be good! All the immigrants I know closely (maybe 10ish) cant wait to leave! Before you say 'off you go then', they are all doctors and paramedics. But they will. It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 30, 2019 18:54:00 GMT
Not a chance. He talks like everyone loves it here and the only reason he is given is because people are fleeing war so it must be good! All the immigrants I know closely (maybe 10ish) cant wait to leave! Before you say 'off you go then', they are all doctors and paramedics. But they will. It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. Let's extrapolate. I'm proud to live in a country that foreign people want to live in too. That's the thrust of what hes saying. Other people want to live here so hes proud of that. Fine. But wait, he said hes recently proud, had his pride restored. People have been coming here for ages as we know so that cant be it. Let's try again. I'm proud to now live in a country that foreigners want to live in too now that it is more difficult for them to do so. Essentially, I am proud now there will be less foreigners. Honestly, that's what I'm hearing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 19:05:55 GMT
It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. Let's extrapolate. I'm proud to live in a country that foreign people want to live in too. That's the thrust of what hes saying. Other people want to live here so hes proud of that. Fine. But wait, he said hes recently proud, had his pride restored. People have been coming here for ages as we know so that cant be it. Let's try again. I'm proud to now live in a country that foreigners want to live in too now that it is more difficult for them to do so. Essentially, I am proud now there will be less foreigners. Honestly, that's what I'm hearing. Yes, I know. Hence the title of this thread and its underlying appeal to Al. Of course if we go into detail... |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 30, 2019 19:09:32 GMT
Not a chance. He talks like everyone loves it here and the only reason he is given is because people are fleeing war so it must be good! All the immigrants I know closely (maybe 10ish) cant wait to leave! Before you say 'off you go then', they are all doctors and paramedics. But they will. It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. Absolutely wrong. What I am not doing is engaging with people who have deeply closed and negative minds, I don't need to and it is pointless. You sound like people who knock on doors trying to sell their religion when the occupants are quite happy with their own. It seems to me, just like on here, they are doing it because they are not really sure about what they believe in and are preaching. If you want to moan about anything, do something about it Do you live here? If so why? Are you politicians if not why not? For myself I am grateful for this country if you're not then take action to change it. Or move to another one. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 19:40:55 GMT
It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. Absolutely wrong. What I am not doing is engaging with people who have deeply closed and negative minds, I don't need to and it is pointless. You sound like people who knock on doors trying to sell their religion when the occupants are quite happy with their own. It seems to me, just like on here, they are doing it because they are not really sure about what they believe in and are preaching. If you want to moan about anything, do something about it Do you live here? If so why? Are you politicians if not why not? For myself I am grateful for this country if you're not then take action to change it. Or move to another one. Does fundamentally disagreeing with you indicate I have a closed and negative mind? |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 30, 2019 20:05:49 GMT
Absolutely wrong. What I am not doing is engaging with people who have deeply closed and negative minds, I don't need to and it is pointless. You sound like people who knock on doors trying to sell their religion when the occupants are quite happy with their own. It seems to me, just like on here, they are doing it because they are not really sure about what they believe in and are preaching. If you want to moan about anything, do something about it Do you live here? If so why? Are you politicians if not why not? For myself I am grateful for this country if you're not then take action to change it. Or move to another one. Does fundamentally disagreeing with you indicate I have a closed and negative mind? No of course not that's the value of discussion but not being open and listening to different ideas than your own does. Another thing you do is expect people to tell the future. Maybe you get this from your journalist friends you like to copy and paste. They don't know either. When a different idea is put to you all you can say is 'give me the evidence' obviously there is no evidence because they are new ideas not tried before. So this kills discussion. I have posted up different ideas to you and others of the same persuasion and all I've got back is insults and derogatory comments. So what really is the point? None. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 21:35:26 GMT
And, ignore the question. Absolutely, I learnt long ago that it's impossible to have a discussion with anyone who just looks at one side. In this case the dark side. They are seemingly happy anchored there. To discuss with them is truly a waste of energy. Well shall we ignore all that and pretend that things are tickety boo? For all the mockery at least those on the left are trying to have a sensible discussion but the right are proving it can’t be done because they either get in a flounce like the things we can agree on thread or have arch meta-conversations amongst themselves with more knowing winks than an evening in a Masonic hall. I am asking a genuine question: what is there to be proud of? Getting angry because someone brings up the crap parts is not a credible answer. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 21:40:04 GMT
Seriously though, you said you're now proud again to be British. So what is it that makes you feel proud? Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? They risk their lives because they know that they will get clothed and fed over and above the actual indigenous population. As much as I consider myself a liberal I’m not blind to the fact that refugees see us as a soft touch compared to France etc. But that being the case and using your logic, does that mean that the homeless white guy should thank his lucky stars that he is homeless in Britain while he watches a family of Somalis move into a house on the high street? Should he be proud of his country? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 21:48:31 GMT
It appears everyone has adopted Johnson's tactic, dont engage in detail and they wont get caught out. Let's extrapolate. I'm proud to live in a country that foreign people want to live in too. That's the thrust of what hes saying. Other people want to live here so hes proud of that. Fine. But wait, he said hes recently proud, had his pride restored. People have been coming here for ages as we know so that cant be it. Let's try again. I'm proud to now live in a country that foreigners want to live in too now that it is more difficult for them to do so. Essentially, I am proud now there will be less foreigners. Honestly, that's what I'm hearing. All I’m hearing is “I’m proud because life is tickety boo FOR ME”. If you have anything approaching a conscience it’s bloody hard to look around at our wider society and be proud of how the wealth this country produces fails to trickle down. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 30, 2019 21:52:03 GMT
Everything has two sides, like I said it's impossible to discuss with people who are glued to one of them. Talk to people from other countries who work here and ask them to compare it to their country. Thousands risk their lives to get here so it can't be that bad and I don't see boatloads of lefties going the other way do you? They risk their lives because they know that they will get clothed and fed over and above the actual indigenous population. As much as I consider myself a liberal I’m not blind to the fact that refugees see us as a soft touch compared to France etc. But that being the case and using your logic, does that mean that the homeless white guy should thank his lucky stars that he is homeless in Britain while he watches a family of Somalis move into a house on the high street? Should he be proud of his country? I believe every case should be viewed separately and not from a racial perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 22:32:28 GMT
They risk their lives because they know that they will get clothed and fed over and above the actual indigenous population. As much as I consider myself a liberal I’m not blind to the fact that refugees see us as a soft touch compared to France etc. But that being the case and using your logic, does that mean that the homeless white guy should thank his lucky stars that he is homeless in Britain while he watches a family of Somalis move into a house on the high street? Should he be proud of his country? I believe every case should be viewed separately and not from a racial perspective. With respect, who cares what you believe about selection criteria, that's irrelevant. You're arguing that because people are risking their lives to get to Britain, that we don't know how good we have got it. Do you think they would risk their lives if they believed their living standards would be the same as, or worse than if they lived in France or Germany? Course they wouldn't - it doesn't make any sense otherwise. Basically what I'm trying to say is once you take the prospect of free sh** away Britain is probably not all that attractive to refugees not least because of the difficulties of getting here, as such I don't see the equivalence of our treatment of refugees meaning that it's not so bad for the homeless natives of this country. Should we be proud of the free sh** we give away? Possibly, but our welfare state should be there to help our own and the one thing I do have some sympathy with the Brexiters on is the culture of providing housing for refugees. I don't want to go too deep on this as I don't have figures and it could all be Daily Mail bollocks. But if I were in charge I would definitely be setting the system up to put British people first. I've seen quotes from the BBC attributed to refugees crossing the channel that they have at least been given the impression that Britain is a country where we provide housing to refugee families and I dislike that this has become the impression that people have. As much as we should look to take our share of refugees our priority should always be our own especially when we have homeless at record levels as we do now. With regards lefties going the other way, well we did have guaranteed freedom of movement. Given the numbers of applicants for Irish passports etc it might be the case that we see more lefties leaving after Brexit than before! I for one am sounding out my mother about using her heritage to apply for a German passport, could be useful in case of emergencies. |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 30, 2019 23:50:25 GMT
I believe every case should be viewed separately and not from a racial perspective. With respect, who cares what you believe about selection criteria, that's irrelevant. You're arguing that because people are risking their lives to get to Britain, that we don't know how good we have got it. Do you think they would risk their lives if they believed their living standards would be the same as, or worse than if they lived in France or Germany? Course they wouldn't - it doesn't make any sense otherwise. Basically what I'm trying to say is once you take the prospect of free sh** away Britain is probably not all that attractive to refugees not least because of the difficulties of getting here, as such I don't see the equivalence of our treatment of refugees meaning that it's not so bad for the homeless natives of this country. Should we be proud of the free sh** we give away? Possibly, but our welfare state should be there to help our own and the one thing I do have some sympathy with the Brexiters on is the culture of providing housing for refugees. I don't want to go too deep on this as I don't have figures and it could all be Daily Mail bollocks. But if I were in charge I would definitely be setting the system up to put British people first. I've seen quotes from the BBC attributed to refugees crossing the channel that they have at least been given the impression that Britain is a country where we provide housing to refugee families and I dislike that this has become the impression that people have. As much as we should look to take our share of refugees our priority should always be our own especially when we have homeless at record levels as we do now. With regards lefties going the other way, well we did have guaranteed freedom of movement. Given the numbers of applicants for Irish passports etc it might be the case that we see more lefties leaving after Brexit than before! I for one am sounding out my mother about using her heritage to apply for a German passport, could be useful in case of emergencies. Probably "DM bollocks". “The idea that council homes are going to immigrants is a myth,” he said. “When people say to me that all the houses are going to Poles, I send them a spreadsheet showing that almost every house has gone to a UK resident. It is an urban myth. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9d210ab4-9537-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582The Government's own website states that asylum seekers will get: Housing You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England. Cash support You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine. One thing I did read though was that socisl housing is only available if settled status is granted. People can't just turn up and get a house. "Special arrangements for asylum seekers If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless. You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent. You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family." In terms of why people come here, that is due to many factors such as English language, jobs are available, the ability to work without papers and 'disappear', friends and family already being here, historical reputation for openness, tolerance and freedom. The truth is though, we aren't particularly that popular a destination anyway. fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk/ |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 0:44:41 GMT
With respect, who cares what you believe about selection criteria, that's irrelevant. You're arguing that because people are risking their lives to get to Britain, that we don't know how good we have got it. Do you think they would risk their lives if they believed their living standards would be the same as, or worse than if they lived in France or Germany? Course they wouldn't - it doesn't make any sense otherwise. Basically what I'm trying to say is once you take the prospect of free sh** away Britain is probably not all that attractive to refugees not least because of the difficulties of getting here, as such I don't see the equivalence of our treatment of refugees meaning that it's not so bad for the homeless natives of this country. Should we be proud of the free sh** we give away? Possibly, but our welfare state should be there to help our own and the one thing I do have some sympathy with the Brexiters on is the culture of providing housing for refugees. I don't want to go too deep on this as I don't have figures and it could all be Daily Mail bollocks. But if I were in charge I would definitely be setting the system up to put British people first. I've seen quotes from the BBC attributed to refugees crossing the channel that they have at least been given the impression that Britain is a country where we provide housing to refugee families and I dislike that this has become the impression that people have. As much as we should look to take our share of refugees our priority should always be our own especially when we have homeless at record levels as we do now. With regards lefties going the other way, well we did have guaranteed freedom of movement. Given the numbers of applicants for Irish passports etc it might be the case that we see more lefties leaving after Brexit than before! I for one am sounding out my mother about using her heritage to apply for a German passport, could be useful in case of emergencies. Probably "DM bollocks". “The idea that council homes are going to immigrants is a myth,” he said. “When people say to me that all the houses are going to Poles, I send them a spreadsheet showing that almost every house has gone to a UK resident. It is an urban myth. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9d210ab4-9537-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582The Government's own website states that asylum seekers will get: Housing You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England. Cash support You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine. One thing I did read though was that socisl housing is only available if settled status is granted. People can't just turn up and get a house. "Special arrangements for asylum seekers If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless. You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent. You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family." In terms of why people come here, that is due to many factors such as English language, jobs are available, the ability to work without papers and 'disappear', friends and family already being here, historical reputation for openness, tolerance and freedom. The truth is though, we aren't particularly that popular a destination anyway. fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk/Thanks Stuart - interesting info and some food for thought. In response I will highlight the case thrown up by the BBC's recent series on those who are "just getting by" where the geezer and his son were kipping in a tent on Hastings beach. They were told by the council they couldn't do anything for them because they were considered to have housing and therefore were not at risk. No proper address meant they struggled to get work and it becomes a vicious cycle. I wonder how lucky they felt? |
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stuart1974
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Post by stuart1974 on Dec 31, 2019 1:01:15 GMT
Probably "DM bollocks". “The idea that council homes are going to immigrants is a myth,” he said. “When people say to me that all the houses are going to Poles, I send them a spreadsheet showing that almost every house has gone to a UK resident. It is an urban myth. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9d210ab4-9537-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582The Government's own website states that asylum seekers will get: Housing You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England. Cash support You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine. One thing I did read though was that socisl housing is only available if settled status is granted. People can't just turn up and get a house. "Special arrangements for asylum seekers If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless. You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent. You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family." In terms of why people come here, that is due to many factors such as English language, jobs are available, the ability to work without papers and 'disappear', friends and family already being here, historical reputation for openness, tolerance and freedom. The truth is though, we aren't particularly that popular a destination anyway. fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk/Thanks Stuart - interesting info and some food for thought. In response I will highlight the case thrown up by the BBC's recent series on those who are "just getting by" where the geezer and his son were kipping in a tent on Hastings beach. They were told by the council they couldn't do anything for them because they were considered to have housing and therefore were not at risk. No proper address meant they struggled to get work and it becomes a vicious cycle. I wonder how lucky they felt? Didn't see the programme but wouldn't surprise me. From what I read researching my post it is probably down to lack of council housing stock. One of the things we as a nation need to do better is homelessness, both within emergency accommodation usage and rough sleepers. My brother and his daughters got rehoused when he lost his house years ago so also down to the infamous postcode lottery as different councils have differing levels of stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 1:02:38 GMT
With respect, who cares what you believe about selection criteria, that's irrelevant. You're arguing that because people are risking their lives to get to Britain, that we don't know how good we have got it. Do you think they would risk their lives if they believed their living standards would be the same as, or worse than if they lived in France or Germany? Course they wouldn't - it doesn't make any sense otherwise. Basically what I'm trying to say is once you take the prospect of free sh** away Britain is probably not all that attractive to refugees not least because of the difficulties of getting here, as such I don't see the equivalence of our treatment of refugees meaning that it's not so bad for the homeless natives of this country. Should we be proud of the free sh** we give away? Possibly, but our welfare state should be there to help our own and the one thing I do have some sympathy with the Brexiters on is the culture of providing housing for refugees. I don't want to go too deep on this as I don't have figures and it could all be Daily Mail bollocks. But if I were in charge I would definitely be setting the system up to put British people first. I've seen quotes from the BBC attributed to refugees crossing the channel that they have at least been given the impression that Britain is a country where we provide housing to refugee families and I dislike that this has become the impression that people have. As much as we should look to take our share of refugees our priority should always be our own especially when we have homeless at record levels as we do now. With regards lefties going the other way, well we did have guaranteed freedom of movement. Given the numbers of applicants for Irish passports etc it might be the case that we see more lefties leaving after Brexit than before! I for one am sounding out my mother about using her heritage to apply for a German passport, could be useful in case of emergencies. Probably "DM bollocks". “The idea that council homes are going to immigrants is a myth,” he said. “When people say to me that all the houses are going to Poles, I send them a spreadsheet showing that almost every house has gone to a UK resident. It is an urban myth. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/9d210ab4-9537-11e6-a1dc-bdf38d484582The Government's own website states that asylum seekers will get: Housing You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England. Cash support You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine. One thing I did read though was that socisl housing is only available if settled status is granted. People can't just turn up and get a house. "Special arrangements for asylum seekers If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless. You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent. You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family." In terms of why people come here, that is due to many factors such as English language, jobs are available, the ability to work without papers and 'disappear', friends and family already being here, historical reputation for openness, tolerance and freedom. The truth is though, we aren't particularly that popular a destination anyway. fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk/This article suggests that what an asylum seeker gets is dependent on the local authority they end up in. If you're looking for the best deal you can get then Manchester or Scotland is likely to be far more generous: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43826163I also see there is a BBC article corroborating that, at least for the Vietnamese, the attraction of the UK is the ability to work off the books and also the access to a support network via the existing Vietnamese community. So housing is not the be all and end all. But it does beg the question: if people want immigration to be cut how do you make the UK an unattractive place to come seeing as part of the attraction is that you practically don't exist in the first place? |
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