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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 10:23:43 GMT
I have had it on good authority that it is now official government strategy. In the budget it will be labelled, "Pension Liability Reduction Programme". The Government, impressed by the ability of the Chinese, Japanese and Italian governments to deal with their looming demographic time bomb by this method have decided to follow suit. 😜😜 And in true form, will have overlooked the assessment of impact to their voting demographic! Now now, you know this lot refuse to acknowledge "Impact Assessments" They have been denying them for 10 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 12:06:09 GMT
My company has banned all business travel. Teams at the central location have been split up and are now working from either two or three locations. Also, a team of engineers have been to my house to install a PC with five monitors in my man cave as it is expected that we will all have to work from home pretty soon. The seven P's, Proper Planning & Preparation Prevent water Poor Performance.
Not to be outdone by Nobby, I have had 7, sees his 5, monitors installed at home. Now, the question is, wtf do I do with them. If you don't know what to do with them then you have wasted time, money and resources. |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 13:02:25 GMT
My company has banned all business travel. Teams at the central location have been split up and are now working from either two or three locations. Also, a team of engineers have been to my house to install a PC with five monitors in my man cave as it is expected that we will all have to work from home pretty soon. The seven P's, Proper Planning & Preparation Prevent water Poor Performance.
Not to be outdone by Nobby, I have had 7, sees his 5, monitors installed at home. Now, the question is, wtf do I do with them. 1 can open doors, one can bring tea and crumpets ,one can bring cucumber sandwiches ,the other four can clean your house ,or if you mean computer moniters you could always stick em on the walls in my house |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 13:30:29 GMT
This virus is obviously worse than the Chinese have let on. The speed at which China locked down cities and provences indicate they knew what they were dealing with, with the obvious follow on question, is this something that escaped from their lab? Containment is impossible. Even today there are regular flights into and out of Northern Italy, with no medical checks at places like Heathrow for those coming in.
Isolation guidance is also poor. Self isolate if you've been to a hot zone or if you've been in contact with a co formed case. But those that have been in contact with those self isolating recieve no guidance. And we know you can transmit it when not showing symptoms. So some of those self isolating will be passing it on to those in close proximity. And they my friend are in the supermarket buying loo roll. Someone mentioned this to me the other day his particular example was delivery drivers, for example food and bog roll deliveries to your house, we had a delivery on sat and it was business as normal by that i mean we have been told the virus has a short lifespan out of the body. However habits formed over many years mean you will still take a crate or bag off the driver without thinking ,i think for many that will be the hardest part of avoiding contact as it is an almost automatic response. Another issue with self isolation is at some point some will need to go out to get food etc, as not everyone can use online services for various reasons, people can only stay at home for a limited time as if people cant get to work how will they get paid etc. I was going to mention the mentality of some as you mentioned bog roll, i did laugh (gallows humour) at the images of supermarket with no bog roll left but there were a few rolls kitchen towels left, you can just imagine someone getting their knickers in a twist as the bog roll was gone not realising you can cut a kitchen roll in 1/2. Will those people panic buying be able to ration what they have food wise for a few weeks or will it be they will eat more like at xmas when those same people panic buy for two days when the shops are shut. |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 13:36:47 GMT
Isolation guidance is also poor. Self isolate if you've been to a hot zone or if you've been in contact with a co formed case. But those that have been in contact with those self isolating recieve no guidance. And we know you can transmit it when not showing symptoms. So some of those self isolating will be passing it on to those in close proximity. And they my friend are in the supermarket buying loo roll. Correct. Just look at the cruise liner experience. Everyone isolated in their cabins, and yet practically everyone on board ended up with the virus! Is that because as mentioned in another post by ob the staff bring in food etc to cabins are those buying bog roll, i think this so far has shown its almost impossible to contain the virus |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 13:44:24 GMT
If there is wide scale social disruption, what good is loo roll if you dont have any food? Jokes aside though, it is abundantly clear to me that we are not able to contain this one. I suspect we will be close to 1000 confirmed cases by the end of the week. I'd whole heartedly recommend stocking up on the basics like food and medicines. Particularly now as supply issues have already started due to the 'panic-buying'. There has undoubtedly been scaremongering but anyone who suggests this is purely scaremongering is mistaken. Look at Italy - 6 million people being quarterentined as we speak. The death rates from Italy where healthcare is generally quite good have been higher than what has been *reported* in China. The incidence of bilateral interstitial pneumonia is also far higher. Perhaps no surprise. It's still very low for the young and healthy (1%) but as the total average is 6%, naturally on the other end of that scale the elderly and sick are up at around 9-10%. In an NHS that was already at crisis point, a proposed 30% of the population requiring healthcare for a new issue is going to be very difficult to handle. Expect the next couple of days to show no acceleration in confirmed daily cases in UK and then an enormous spike. Just a hunch... If memory serves you work for the nhs , if so may i ask a few questions, im not trying to be a scaremonger am i right in thinking that this virus at present has no cure, and as the advice has been if you think you have it to sit tight and not visit your gp or hospital, then how are people tested. If what weve been told is true then if your unlucky are you left at home to sit it out. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 14:07:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 14:08:16 GMT
If there is wide scale social disruption, what good is loo roll if you dont have any food? Jokes aside though, it is abundantly clear to me that we are not able to contain this one. I suspect we will be close to 1000 confirmed cases by the end of the week. I'd whole heartedly recommend stocking up on the basics like food and medicines. Particularly now as supply issues have already started due to the 'panic-buying'. There has undoubtedly been scaremongering but anyone who suggests this is purely scaremongering is mistaken. Look at Italy - 6 million people being quarterentined as we speak. The death rates from Italy where healthcare is generally quite good have been higher than what has been *reported* in China. The incidence of bilateral interstitial pneumonia is also far higher. Perhaps no surprise. It's still very low for the young and healthy (1%) but as the total average is 6%, naturally on the other end of that scale the elderly and sick are up at around 9-10%. In an NHS that was already at crisis point, a proposed 30% of the population requiring healthcare for a new issue is going to be very difficult to handle. Expect the next couple of days to show no acceleration in confirmed daily cases in UK and then an enormous spike. Just a hunch... If memory serves you work for the nhs , if so may i ask a few questions, im not trying to be a scaremonger am i right in thinking that this virus at present has no cure, and as the advice has been if you think you have it to sit tight and not visit your gp or hospital, then how are people tested. If what weve been told is true then if your unlucky are you left at home to sit it out. To be fair, all the appropriate advice is on the NHS website. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 10, 2020 14:23:51 GMT
If there is wide scale social disruption, what good is loo roll if you dont have any food? Jokes aside though, it is abundantly clear to me that we are not able to contain this one. I suspect we will be close to 1000 confirmed cases by the end of the week. I'd whole heartedly recommend stocking up on the basics like food and medicines. Particularly now as supply issues have already started due to the 'panic-buying'. There has undoubtedly been scaremongering but anyone who suggests this is purely scaremongering is mistaken. Look at Italy - 6 million people being quarterentined as we speak. The death rates from Italy where healthcare is generally quite good have been higher than what has been *reported* in China. The incidence of bilateral interstitial pneumonia is also far higher. Perhaps no surprise. It's still very low for the young and healthy (1%) but as the total average is 6%, naturally on the other end of that scale the elderly and sick are up at around 9-10%. In an NHS that was already at crisis point, a proposed 30% of the population requiring healthcare for a new issue is going to be very difficult to handle. Expect the next couple of days to show no acceleration in confirmed daily cases in UK and then an enormous spike. Just a hunch... If memory serves you work for the nhs , if so may i ask a few questions, im not trying to be a scaremonger am i right in thinking that this virus at present has no cure, and as the advice has been if you think you have it to sit tight and not visit your gp or hospital, then how are people tested. If what weve been told is true then if your unlucky are you left at home to sit it out. Not strictly right. Self isolation is for anyone that has been to a red area, have had contact with a confirmed case or have been to an orange area with symptoms. Testing is not necessarily done for all of these groups unless symptoms develop. Testing is performed for anyone in these groups WITH symptoms. Testing is done in emergency pods in hospitals for those who are critically unwell. Otherwise there are community based testing pods which take many forms - home testing teams, community pods, drive though services. Once tested, you have a 24-48 hour turnaround for cultures to arrive back. If you are well enough you continue to self isolate at home. If not you are hospitalised. If you get bad enough at home, you are moved to hospital in specialised ambulances. There is no cure this is true other than generalised treatments for pneumonia and respiratory failure. In italy they are now no longer able to offer the very worst cases any treatment, focussing now on those with a higher chance of survival. Expect new guidance to include removal of the travel criteria for any influenza type illness bad enough to warrant hospitalization. These will be tested and treated as COVID19 until proven otherwise. This will confirm community spread and a move away from the contain phase to the delay phase. Testing only really provides us with two things. Firstly it enables us to track the disease which is becoming less important as community spread is confirmed. Secondly it raises our level of concern for pneumonia type complications and allows us to isolate that person against further community spread. Unfortunately though, the nature of the transmission means that it is almost certain that by the time a positive result is confirmed, the person will have spread it to several other people already. For the individual, testing is not particularly useful then from a treatment point of view. I think it is possible as this grows we will see a lower level of testing as people are told to essentially see how they get on and they will likely recieve monitoring services via phone until being discharged. It will only be those hospitalised that get tested. As I type I can see that as I expected the rate of acceleration has decreased. This will last a day or two before it shoots up. |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 15:06:26 GMT
Thanks for the reply ob , i read that about italy and my thoughts were what other choice do they have, it must be difficult for a doctor to choose who lives or dies.
So what causes those spikes is it as the infection rate rises more people self isolate and after a few day say feck it and start going out again, or is it just the way the virus behaves.
Are staff in hospitals allowed to refuse to treat people with the virus, or are the nhs training certain staff to deal with hospitalised cases to keep the transmission rate as low as possible. not trying to be argumentative but find this stuff fascinating.
I just read about one hospital (northampton i think) where visitors are stealing the hand sanitisers from relatives beds and ripping the wall mounted ones off the walls, must make their friends relative in hosp feel so much better these thieving idiots need to be lined up against a wall.
i have a few more questions but they can wait
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 15:08:27 GMT
If memory serves you work for the nhs , if so may i ask a few questions, im not trying to be a scaremonger am i right in thinking that this virus at present has no cure, and as the advice has been if you think you have it to sit tight and not visit your gp or hospital, then how are people tested. If what weve been told is true then if your unlucky are you left at home to sit it out. To be fair, all the appropriate advice is on the NHS website. i had read that that's why i asked a few questions mainly because it linked to a gov site  |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 10, 2020 16:34:24 GMT
Thanks for the reply ob , i read that about italy and my thoughts were what other choice do they have, it must be difficult for a doctor to choose who lives or dies. So what causes those spikes is it as the infection rate rises more people self isolate and after a few day say feck it and start going out again, or is it just the way the virus behaves. Are staff in hospitals allowed to refuse to treat people with the virus, or are the nhs training certain staff to deal with hospitalised cases to keep the transmission rate as low as possible. not trying to be argumentative but find this stuff fascinating. I just read about one hospital (northampton i think) where visitors are stealing the hand sanitisers from relatives beds and ripping the wall mounted ones off the walls, must make their friends relative in hosp feel so much better these thieving idiots need to be lined up against a wall. i have a few more questions but they can wait Unfortunately it's the viral behaviour not the human behaviour Consider chickenpox. What makes chickenpox such a successful virus is that you can be contagious before you even know you have it. You would pick it up and as you are incubating it for two weeks feeling absolutely normal, you are contagious to others. Then you get spots and fever and whatever else and after a few days it's gone. The point here is that you can be passing it on before you even know you've got it. This strain of coronavirus is similar. You can have it and be incubating it for two weeks before you show your first symptom (thus the 14 day isolation period for red area teavel). During this time, before any symptoms develop, and we arent sure exactly when, we think you can pass it on. The next person then begins their two week incubation period, unbeknownst to them and will again spread it. Theres some hysteria about hand wash. Antibacterial is neither here nor there. This is not a bacteria it is a virus. What you need is something that breaks down the lipid (fatty) shell, causing it to collapse. Normal soap does this. So does washing up liquid. So does antibacterial hand soap because it's got soap in it. Alcohol gel does if the ethanol concentration is above around 60%. Vodka doesnt for that reason. It can live on surfaces for some time. In the right conditions maybe 24 hours. However no amount of hand gel will save you from a well timed cough or sneeze to your immediate surroundings from someone who probably doesnt even know they have it. |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 17:21:01 GMT
Thanks again ob Here's a short article that mentions how easy it is to spread, not sure if it's correct but does illustrate how you can pass things on without knowing.(slightly off topic it never ceases to amaze me how people moan about health care in foreign climes, you know it wont be to a standard we are used to so why moan ) www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/british-couple-contract-virus-on-flight-from-heathrow-to-vietnamI can't workout why during something like this, people jump on planes as surly if you can transmit it from droplets that are airborne ,then it stands to reason that an aircraft with it recycled air would not be the healthiest place in the world. I'm interested to know is the 24hr period outside the body a new figure as the gov site says 72hrs, hence why i'm asking questions. I've got some industrial disinfectants here not sure if they will help but use them as normal anyway. As the current trend seems to be to not get kids inoculated will this virus affect them more than inoculated kids or not. Hope you don't mind the questions but this stuff fascinates me |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 10, 2020 17:54:19 GMT
Thanks again ob Here's a short article that mentions how easy it is to spread, not sure if it's correct but does illustrate how you can pass things on without knowing.(slightly off topic it never ceases to amaze me how people moan about health care in foreign climes, you know it wont be to a standard we are used to so why moan ) www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/british-couple-contract-virus-on-flight-from-heathrow-to-vietnamI can't workout why during something like this, people jump on planes as surly if you can transmit it from droplets that are airborne ,then it stands to reason that an aircraft with it recycled air would not be the healthiest place in the world. I'm interested to know is the 24hr period outside the body a new figure as the gov site says 72hrs, hence why i'm asking questions. I've got some industrial disinfectants here not sure if they will help but use them as normal anyway. As the current trend seems to be to not get kids inoculated will this virus affect them more than inoculated kids or not. Hope you don't mind the questions but this stuff fascinates me Not at all. 72 hours is news to me. Perhaps that is an extreme example/worst case or I am myself misinformed and recent tests have proven it capable of higher lifespan outside host. That's entirely possible too, information is limited and changing at pace. One of my other interest is aircraft and although I dont know the specifics I could tell you how it works on a relatively modern 737. Cabin air in a 737 is filtered with a seriously effective bit of kit and its mixed with fresh air (warmed from engine intake) and then cycled back in the cabin. In theory the air circulated in cabins on modern-ish larger planes is filtered well enough. Comparable to hospital air filtration systems I'd say. I'm not sure that the virus can survive in air for particularly long but certainly on surfaces yes. So really your risk on a flight is proximity to infected people or surfaces rather than the 'recycled' (but well filtered) air. One of the criteria for testing is contact with a confirmed case which includes being on a plane but you still have to be within 2 seats away and for greater than 15 minutes for a risk. |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 10, 2020 18:03:43 GMT
Also theres no inoculation for this one. There is some fringe speculation that existing vaccinations have reduced the impact to the very young that have had boosters recently. It's way out there and not to be believed as it stands.
So even though not having your kids vaccinated is about the most stupid thing a parent can do for their wellbeing on the balance of risk in a normal scenario, it's overwhelmingly likely that it has no link either way to this one.
If you really want to get down in the cellar then perhaps youd be interested to read the following...
In January 2018, China's first maximum security virology laboratory (biosecurity level 4) designed for the study of the world's most dangerous pathogens opened its doors — in Wuhan.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 10, 2020 18:13:13 GMT
Also theres no inoculation for this one. There is some fringe speculation that existing vaccinations have reduced the impact to the very young that have had boosters recently. It's way out there and not to be believed as it stands. So even though not having your kids vaccinated is about the most stupid thing a parent can do for their wellbeing on the balance of risk in a normal scenario, it's overwhelmingly likely that it has no link either way to this one. If you really want to get down in the cellar then perhaps youd be interested to read the following... In January 2018, China's first maximum security virology laboratory (biosecurity level 4) designed for the study of the world's most dangerous pathogens opened its doors — in Wuhan. One conspiracy theory is that China did it to upset the international trade balance, anyone with shares in loo roll manufacturers? 😎 |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Mar 10, 2020 18:14:56 GMT
Also theres no inoculation for this one. There is some fringe speculation that existing vaccinations have reduced the impact to the very young that have had boosters recently. It's way out there and not to be believed as it stands. So even though not having your kids vaccinated is about the most stupid thing a parent can do for their wellbeing on the balance of risk in a normal scenario, it's overwhelmingly likely that it has no link either way to this one. If you really want to get down in the cellar then perhaps youd be interested to read the following... In January 2018, China's first maximum security virology laboratory (biosecurity level 4) designed for the study of the world's most dangerous pathogens opened its doors — in Wuhan. One conspiracy theory is that China did it to upset the international trade balance, anyone with shares in loo roll manufacturers? 😎 Very good. I wouldnt be surprised though if this was an accidental exposure that got in to the community. |
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Post by inee on Mar 10, 2020 18:17:45 GMT
Also theres no inoculation for this one. There is some fringe speculation that existing vaccinations have reduced the impact to the very young that have had boosters recently. It's way out there and not to be believed as it stands. So even though not having your kids vaccinated is about the most stupid thing a parent can do for their wellbeing on the balance of risk in a normal scenario, it's overwhelmingly likely that it has no link either way to this one. If you really want to get down in the cellar then perhaps youd be interested to read the following... In January 2018, China's first maximum security virology laboratory (biosecurity level 4) designed for the study of the world's most dangerous pathogens opened its doors — in Wuhan. One conspiracy theory is that China did it to upset the international trade balance, anyone with shares in loo roll manufacturers? 😎 oh shall we start a conspiracy thread |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 10, 2020 18:24:51 GMT
One conspiracy theory is that China did it to upset the international trade balance, anyone with shares in loo roll manufacturers? 😎 Very good. I wouldnt be surprised though if this was an accidental exposure that got in to the community. Makes more sense than the deliberately released one (which I don't buy myself). |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 10, 2020 18:26:59 GMT
One conspiracy theory is that China did it to upset the international trade balance, anyone with shares in loo roll manufacturers? 😎 oh shall we start a conspiracy thread Okay, China released the virus as a warning to the world and say it could be more deadly next time. |
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