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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 19:17:05 GMT
Both. NHS staff self isolating fearful they have it without proof that they do is ridiculous. Antibody tests will be crucial to enable a gradual return to work for all of us. You know, the sort of planned evidence based decision making we were promised. Ahem I agree So if your tested today do you test tomorrow and every day thereafter?. Or do you only test the moment you have any signs/symptoms by way of confirmation? . Dependent upon my role. If I am key critical then if I show systems then tested and if negative carry on. Until or unless I show symptoms again. If I am just active in economic activity, then locked down until I can test for antibodies. If I have them, then back to work. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 19:18:03 GMT
No Hugo. It is quite simple. A decision was taken by someone to reduce the amount of home trained nurses, with the reduced costs, and instead employ ready qualified nurses from abroad. Most countries have done the same with the result that there is a world wide shortage of nurses. When I spent a long time in hospital here in Germany I did not come across a single German nurse. They were all from abroad. This same thing has happened across many sectors in the UK and it is about time that more money was invested to train our own people, and not just in nursing. When there are that many vacancies in nursing it just shows that the money is there to employ them, otherwise there wouldn't be any vacancies would there! So they cut funding to get cheaper nurses? Then they cut funding for training new nurses. So now we dont have enough nurses that means they are clearly spending money on nurses? I have a vacancy for personal spaceship to take me to the moon. I haven't spent any money on building one or on training an astronaut but clearly I have the funds in place because I have a vacancy. Don't be silly Hugo. You know exactly what I mean. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 19:26:20 GMT
No Hugo. It is quite simple. A decision was taken by someone to reduce the amount of home trained nurses, with the reduced costs, and instead employ ready qualified nurses from abroad. Most countries have done the same with the result that there is a world wide shortage of nurses. When I spent a long time in hospital here in Germany I did not come across a single German nurse. They were all from abroad. This same thing has happened across many sectors in the UK and it is about time that more money was invested to train our own people, and not just in nursing. When there are that many vacancies in nursing it just shows that the money is there to employ them, otherwise there wouldn't be any vacancies would there! So they cut funding to get cheaper nurses? Then they cut funding for training new nurses. So now we dont have enough nurses that means they are clearly spending money on nurses? I have a vacancy for personal spaceship to take me to the moon. I haven't spent any money on building one or on training an astronaut but clearly I have the funds in place because I have a vacancy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 2, 2020 19:41:13 GMT
So they cut funding to get cheaper nurses? Then they cut funding for training new nurses. So now we dont have enough nurses that means they are clearly spending money on nurses? I have a vacancy for personal spaceship to take me to the moon. I haven't spent any money on building one or on training an astronaut but clearly I have the funds in place because I have a vacancy. Don't be silly Hugo. You know exactly what I mean. No I dont. Twist it however you want. Tory cuts have resulted in less nurses. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 19:45:25 GMT
Don't be silly Hugo. You know exactly what I mean. No I dont. Twist it however you want. Tory cuts have resulted in less nurses. Go on then. Explain why there are all these vacancies? If 40,000 nurses landed in the UK tomorrow there are the jobs, and the funding in place, to employ them. The money is there. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 2, 2020 19:52:43 GMT
No I dont. Twist it however you want. Tory cuts have resulted in less nurses. Go on then. Explain why there are all these vacancies? If 40,000 nurses landed in the UK tomorrow there are the jobs, and the funding in place, to employ them. The money is there. No point. You won't read it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 20:07:38 GMT
Go on then. Explain why there are all these vacancies? If 40,000 nurses landed in the UK tomorrow there are the jobs, and the funding in place, to employ them. The money is there. No point. You won't read it. I would be happy to read your personal response and views. I am not that keen on reading anything in the MSM at the moment. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2020 20:29:25 GMT
No point. You won't read it. I would be happy to read your personal response and views. I am not that keen on reading anything in the MSM at the moment. In which case, apart from your experience in a German hospital, how are you forming your opinion? What makes you so sure your thoughts are correct? Just because there are vacancies does not automatically mean the funding is there and nor does it mean the causes of the shortfall is cheaper nurses from overseas. My own view is that the vacancies were there first and then filled by recruiting from overseas when not enough home grown nurses joined. |
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Post by William Wilson on Apr 2, 2020 20:59:58 GMT
The anti-malarial drug being quoted. It's the same as issued to British troops whenever they visit malaria zones, and it is widely hated. Most troops go to their own Doctor to get something else. It can have some serious side-effects. Malarone is the one that gives you serious nightmares. The only problem I ever had with Malarone, is when it gave me VD during a three week trip to Thailand. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 21:01:29 GMT
Stuart / Nobby
It is this that I am genuinely interested in
"In which case, apart from your experience in a German hospital, how are you forming your opinion? What makes you so sure your thoughts are correct?"
Seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 21:05:55 GMT
Malarone is the one that gives you serious nightmares. The only problem I ever had with Malarone, is when it gave me VD during a three week trip to Thailand. Saigon Rose, surely💊💊 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 21:47:53 GMT
Stuart / Nobby It is this that I am genuinely interested in "In which case, apart from your experience in a German hospital, how are you forming your opinion? What makes you so sure your thoughts are correct?" Seriously. Because it has happened in all sectors not just in nursing. There has been a shift towards importing cheaper labour, and at the same time reducing investment in training. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 2, 2020 23:13:21 GMT
Stuart / Nobby It is this that I am genuinely interested in "In which case, apart from your experience in a German hospital, how are you forming your opinion? What makes you so sure your thoughts are correct?" Seriously. Because it has happened in all sectors not just in nursing. There has been a shift towards importing cheaper labour, and at the same time reducing investment in training. Didn't you start off by saying it wasn't due to government cuts and underfunding? A recent Kingsfund report stated: "Acceptances on to nursing courses first fell in 2011 following the decision to reduce the number of nursing places commissioned. This was designed to prevent an oversupply of nurses, but many now argue that this was the beginning of the nursing crisis currently facing the NHS. Then, in 2017, the government lifted the cap on the number of student nurses and replaced nursing bursaries with student loans, in the hope that universities would be able to provide an additional 10,000 student nursing places. However, this precipitated a second, more significant, decline in applications between 2017 and 2018, when the number of applicants fell by 24 per cent. The number of acceptances on to nursing courses remained steady (see Figure 1), as many of these courses were receiving more applications than available places before the changes to the bursary. In 2019, with the increase in applications, acceptances onto courses also rose, with nearly 1,500 more people accepted onto nursing courses." Your next point was that funding was cut as we employed cheaper nurses. If we employed cheaper nurses from overseas, why is there such a shortfall? Lastly, you say that money is there as evidenced by the vacancies, if the money is there (and contradicts your earlier point), why are we recruiting cheaper nurses? |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Apr 3, 2020 4:59:34 GMT
No point. You won't read it. I would be happy to read your personal response and views. I am not that keen on reading anything in the MSM at the moment. I gave an analogy earlier. If I create a vacancy that I already know is impossible to fill due to my previous actions then it does not follow that I have the money sat there ready. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 3, 2020 5:58:34 GMT
Morning everyone. So yesterdays loss was pretty much exactly the same as Wednesday. Have we peaked early? Too soon to hope we're getting hold of this?
Just to give a slightly positive note, e-mail from Head Boy at Sainsburys, they're bringing in only one adult per household allowed entry, which seems fine, but as of Sunday they're dropping the limit of 3 items rule. So shelves are obviously staying full and the panic buying and hoarding seems to have calmed down.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 6:31:28 GMT
Because it has happened in all sectors not just in nursing. There has been a shift towards importing cheaper labour, and at the same time reducing investment in training. Didn't you start off by saying it wasn't due to government cuts and underfunding? A recent Kingsfund report stated: "Acceptances on to nursing courses first fell in 2011 following the decision to reduce the number of nursing places commissioned. This was designed to prevent an oversupply of nurses, but many now argue that this was the beginning of the nursing crisis currently facing the NHS. Then, in 2017, the government lifted the cap on the number of student nurses and replaced nursing bursaries with student loans, in the hope that universities would be able to provide an additional 10,000 student nursing places. However, this precipitated a second, more significant, decline in applications between 2017 and 2018, when the number of applicants fell by 24 per cent. The number of acceptances on to nursing courses remained steady (see Figure 1), as many of these courses were receiving more applications than available places before the changes to the bursary. In 2019, with the increase in applications, acceptances onto courses also rose, with nearly 1,500 more people accepted onto nursing courses." Your next point was that funding was cut as we employed cheaper nurses. If we employed cheaper nurses from overseas, why is there such a shortfall? Lastly, you say that money is there as evidenced by the vacancies, if the money is there (and contradicts your earlier point), why are we recruiting cheaper nurses? You are mis-understanding the term 'cheaper nurses'. It is cheaper in that you employ a ready-qualified nurse from somewhere else, instead of investing in producing your own. This has happened across all sectors, not just nursing. There is a world-wide shortage of nurses. |
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Post by William Wilson on Apr 3, 2020 6:50:14 GMT
Morning everyone. So yesterdays loss was pretty much exactly the same as Wednesday. Have we peaked early? Too soon to hope we're getting hold of this? Just to give a slightly positive note, e-mail from Head Boy at Sainsburys, they're bringing in only one adult per household allowed entry, which seems fine, but as of Sunday they're dropping the limit of 3 items rule. So shelves are obviously staying full and the panic buying and hoarding seems to have calmed down. They have behind the scenes too. For ten days or so, I`d never seen such volumes outside of Christmas week. We brought in agency workers, and allowed overtime to anyone who wanted it, and just about coped. Now volumes are pretty much back to normal. I hope that anyone whose ceiling is beginning to bow under the weight of dried pasta, now feels foolish/shamefaced. |
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Post by baggins on Apr 3, 2020 7:07:08 GMT
Morning everyone. So yesterdays loss was pretty much exactly the same as Wednesday. Have we peaked early? Too soon to hope we're getting hold of this? Just to give a slightly positive note, e-mail from Head Boy at Sainsburys, they're bringing in only one adult per household allowed entry, which seems fine, but as of Sunday they're dropping the limit of 3 items rule. So shelves are obviously staying full and the panic buying and hoarding seems to have calmed down. They have behind the scenes too. For ten days or so, I`d never seen such volumes outside of Christmas week. We brought in agency workers, and allowed overtime to anyone who wanted it, and just about coped. Now volumes are pretty much back to normal. I hope that anyone whose ceiling is beginning to bow under the weight of dried pasta, now feels foolish/shamefaced. Unfortunately I think the Supermarket (and the like) workers will be the unsung heroes in all of this. |
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Post by William Wilson on Apr 3, 2020 7:23:22 GMT
They have behind the scenes too. For ten days or so, I`d never seen such volumes outside of Christmas week. We brought in agency workers, and allowed overtime to anyone who wanted it, and just about coped. Now volumes are pretty much back to normal. I hope that anyone whose ceiling is beginning to bow under the weight of dried pasta, now feels foolish/shamefaced. Unfortunately I think the Supermarket (and the like) workers will be the unsung heroes in all of this. Few people compare to the NHS staff, who knowingly put themselves in close proximity to those with the virus. It`s the "knowingly" that surely makes all the difference. I hope/trust that the driver whose trailer I`m unloading, hasn`t picked up the virus while dogging on the common in Stockport. |
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Apr 3, 2020 7:29:16 GMT
Unfortunately I think the Supermarket (and the like) workers will be the unsung heroes in all of this. Few people compare to the NHS staff, who knowingly put themselves in close proximity to those with the virus. It`s the "knowingly" that surely makes all the difference. I hope/trust that the driver whose trailer I`m unloading, hasn`t picked up the virus while dogging on the common in Stockport. Blimey, I thought Bolders was from Cockport not Stockport? |
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