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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:47:25 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris I think we should wait until this is over before we undertake a postmortem on the performance of our Government. What we can do is note some of the facts that are emerging so we can apply that learning later on. So, starter for 10. In 2015 Jeremy Hunt ordered and ran a Pandemic Simulation. Very good, the sort of planning you would hope for. Many of the stock and logistical issues were identified. They did eff all about it. Why not? They put the deficit target before the NHS, Social Care and all the people who work in them. Now these wankers are calling it our"Great NHS", people who work in them "heroes" These are the same people who voted against a significant pay increase for nurses. So, when we are on the other side of this, let's remember that the decisions of this government mostly likely led to the death of some NHS staff. And led to the death of some folk in social care. When you are wasting your time in self indulgent clapping out of your windows, remember that. Brilliant. Thankfully I believe there will be a day of reckoning after this and people who previously were ostensibly hard right free marketeers may very well shift a bit, maybe a lot, to the left as they have now seen with their own eyes a practical demonstration of what Tory politics does to vital public services and they will reconsider what is important in life. People will realise they are far happier to pay more tax as long as the NHS is properly funded. I think it will be a fairly good time to be a socialist as the state will never more be “in vogue”. I also think there could be something of a backlash against Tory politics and if I was Gideon Osborne, in particular, I’d be booking a one way ticket to Peru leaving as soon as lockdown is lifted. |
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Post by inee on Apr 15, 2020 9:47:50 GMT
That one moment has seriously damaged her career and reputation. She handed that really poorly. Agreed. Priti Vacant. remove yourself to the corner for 5 mins, cool link in though |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:50:05 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris Top post. I keep saying this as well. Here in Germany there are the same issues with PPE. You also only get 60% of your wage, or 67% if married. The amounts of money being handed out are far lower in Germany compared to the UK. How does the cost of living compare to the UK though? Particularly the south east of the UK? I’d be very surprised if it was anywhere near as expensive, especially if a big portion of a German wage goes to tax. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:51:08 GMT
When Trump stopped the flights from going into the US he was met with derision by many on here. His mistake was not doing it even sooner !
I do get fed up of reading about posters complaining about 'NHS cuts' etc. I pay about 400 quid a month (my employer pays the other 300 quid) for my Health Insurance in Germany. All of those complaining about 'cuts', just how much money would you be prepared to pay towards your Health Service? Seriously.
You get what you pay for in this world.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:53:50 GMT
Top post. I keep saying this as well. Here in Germany there are the same issues with PPE. You also only get 60% of your wage, or 67% if married. The amounts of money being handed out are far lower in Germany compared to the UK. How does the cost of living compare to the UK though? Particularly the south east of the UK? I’d be very surprised if it was anywhere near as expensive, especially if a big portion of a German wage goes to tax. The cost of living in Germany is higher than in the UK. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:55:51 GMT
Eh? What stories?
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Post by Gassy on Apr 15, 2020 9:56:29 GMT
When Trump stopped the flights from going into the US he was met with derision by many on here. His mistake was not doing it even sooner ! I do get fed up of reading about posters complaining about 'NHS cuts' etc. I pay about 400 quid a month (my employer pays the other 300 quid) for my Health Insurance in Germany. All of those complaining about 'cuts', just how much money would you be prepared to pay towards your Health Service? Seriously. You get what you pay for in this world. No, you get what the Tories f**k you with. I can’t talk for others when Trump stopped travel, but I can assure you I wasn’t one of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:59:10 GMT
Meanwhile in other news only 2% of businesses have been able to claim the coronavirus emergency loans: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52288258Good to see the economy is in good hands... |
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Post by Gassy on Apr 15, 2020 10:10:07 GMT
Also, Nobby - whilst you pay 400euros to health care a month, assuming you earn the average salary of 4,000 pcm in Germany, that’s pretty much the same as here.
In UK if you earn 4K a month then you’d be paying £385 per month on national insurance.
If you’re earning more than the average in Germany, then you’re actually paying less as a %.
Get what you pay for?
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 15, 2020 10:25:23 GMT
I think we should wait until this is over before we undertake a postmortem on the performance of our Government. What we can do is note some of the facts that are emerging so we can apply that learning later on. So, starter for 10. In 2015 Jeremy Hunt ordered and ran a Pandemic Simulation. Very good, the sort of planning you would hope for. Many of the stock and logistical issues were identified. They did eff all about it. Why not? They put the deficit target before the NHS, Social Care and all the people who work in them. Now these wankers are calling it our"Great NHS", people who work in them "heroes" These are the same people who voted against a significant pay increase for nurses. So, when we are on the other side of this, let's remember that the decisions of this government mostly likely led to the death of some NHS staff. And led to the death of some folk in social care. When you are wasting your time in self indulgent clapping out of your windows, remember that. Brilliant. Thankfully I believe there will be a day of reckoning after this and people who previously were ostensibly hard right free marketeers may very well shift a bit, maybe a lot, to the left as they have now seen with their own eyes a practical demonstration of what Tory politics does to vital public services and they will reconsider what is important in life. People will realise they are far happier to pay more tax as long as the NHS is properly funded. I think it will be a fairly good time to be a socialist as the state will never more be “in vogue”. I also think there could be something of a backlash against Tory politics and if I was Gideon Osborne, in particular, I’d be booking a one way ticket to Peru leaving as soon as lockdown is lifted. Emmm not so sure,there was no appetite for a Socialist agenda in the last election and the great UK populace have short memories,having lived on Labour controlled Wales I can safely say it's a shambles look at their achievements. Testing target 10000 a day currently 1000. 13000 letters for the vulnerable sent to the wrong addresses. Severe shortage of ppe. Everyone always says they will pay more tax until it actually happens. I would hate the State to be more invloved a bye word for inefficiency and ineffectiveness. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 10:26:11 GMT
When Trump stopped the flights from going into the US he was met with derision by many on here. His mistake was not doing it even sooner ! I do get fed up of reading about posters complaining about 'NHS cuts' etc. I pay about 400 quid a month (my employer pays the other 300 quid) for my Health Insurance in Germany. All of those complaining about 'cuts', just how much money would you be prepared to pay towards your Health Service? Seriously. You get what you pay for in this world. Yes, this is absolutely right. As taxpayers we have to stand up to this mathematical fact. Of course, until relatively recently Germany spent less on its defence budget as a % of GDP than the UK does, which helps with the allocation of limited resources. So we do need to pay more through taxes, absolutely. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 10:32:34 GMT
Brilliant. Thankfully I believe there will be a day of reckoning after this and people who previously were ostensibly hard right free marketeers may very well shift a bit, maybe a lot, to the left as they have now seen with their own eyes a practical demonstration of what Tory politics does to vital public services and they will reconsider what is important in life. People will realise they are far happier to pay more tax as long as the NHS is properly funded. I think it will be a fairly good time to be a socialist as the state will never more be “in vogue”. I also think there could be something of a backlash against Tory politics and if I was Gideon Osborne, in particular, I’d be booking a one way ticket to Peru leaving as soon as lockdown is lifted. Emmm not so sure,there was no appetite for a Socialist agenda in the last election and the great UK populace have short memories,having lived on Labour controlled Wales I can safely say it's a shambles look at their achievements. Testing target 10000 a day currently 1000. 13000 letters for the vulnerable sent to the wrong addresses. Severe shortage of ppe. Everyone always says they will pay more tax until it actually happens. I would hate the State to be more invloved a bye word for inefficiency and ineffectiveness. I think the time has come to stop arguing about left or right, of socialist or hard right. It's time to look at the facts and the actual decisions made or policies proposed. |
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 15, 2020 10:39:23 GMT
Emmm not so sure,there was no appetite for a Socialist agenda in the last election and the great UK populace have short memories,having lived on Labour controlled Wales I can safely say it's a shambles look at their achievements. Testing target 10000 a day currently 1000. 13000 letters for the vulnerable sent to the wrong addresses. Severe shortage of ppe. Everyone always says they will pay more tax until it actually happens. I would hate the State to be more invloved a bye word for inefficiency and ineffectiveness. I think the time has come to stop arguing about left or right, of socialist or hard right. It's time to look at the facts and the actual decisions made or policies proposed. I agree look at the evidence etc ,unfortunately our politicians are still clothed in left/right and in some respects are behind the public. All I want is a fair Society underpinned by aspiration and opportunity for everyone, been wanting that for 50 years so the evidence tells me it ain't ever going to happen😕 |
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Post by francegas on Apr 15, 2020 10:43:53 GMT
Just a question "do people think that Trump is doing a good job" ?
He is being ridiculed in the States for ignoring the science and his scientific advisors.
Yet in the UK the government is being ridiculed for following the science and its advisors.
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Post by Gassy on Apr 15, 2020 11:16:36 GMT
Just a question "do people think that Trump is doing a good job" ? He is being ridiculed in the States for ignoring the science and his scientific advisors. Yet in the UK the government is being ridiculed for following the science and its advisors. And what about Germany? As I’ve previously mentioned, you like to compare us with the worst. Why not compare us with the best? You’re also forgetting that nearly every expert and scientist in the UK wrote to the government begging them not to continue with their plans at the beginning. Do you honestly believe that Chris Whittey was the only scientist in the UK to go down this route? Why doesn’t Boris listen to a full panel? Boris is calling the shots, but let me guess - it’s not his fault? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 11:21:54 GMT
Also, Nobby - whilst you pay 400euros to health care a month, assuming you earn the average salary of 4,000 pcm in Germany, that’s pretty much the same as here. In UK if you earn 4K a month then you’d be paying £385 per month on national insurance. If you’re earning more than the average in Germany, then you’re actually paying less as a %. Get what you pay for? I only pay half. My employer pays the other half, so it is more like 800 a month. Probably with this and that it is more like 750 a month in total. That excludes Dentist or Optician.
NI in the UK is not just money for the NHS. It also covers your pension payments.
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Post by Gassy on Apr 15, 2020 11:37:34 GMT
Also, Nobby - whilst you pay 400euros to health care a month, assuming you earn the average salary of 4,000 pcm in Germany, that’s pretty much the same as here. In UK if you earn 4K a month then you’d be paying £385 per month on national insurance. If you’re earning more than the average in Germany, then you’re actually paying less as a %. Get what you pay for? I only pay half. My employer pays the other half, so it is more like 800 a month. Probably with this and that it is more like 750 a month in total. That excludes Dentist or Optician.
NI in the UK is not just money for the NHS. It also covers your pension payments.
How much does UK companies pay towards NI per employee? NI doesn’t cover my pension, rather the state pension, but point is taken. Either way, Tory cut backs over 10 years have no helped the NHS |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 12:18:34 GMT
Just a question "do people think that Trump is doing a good job" ? He is being ridiculed in the States for ignoring the science and his scientific advisors. Yet in the UK the government is being ridiculed for following the science and its advisors. Trump was right to shut traffic into the USA. Trouble was that thereafter he sat on his hands in February and did nothing to mobilise the supply side issues. In fact he did nothing until the modelling from Imperial indicated what was going to happen. Here, the Government are saying they are following the science. But again the UK did nothing to address the supply side issues until it was too late. I cannot believe the advisors in "SAGE" didn't say, "watch out, you have an estimated 6 in stock and you are going to need 600" I increasingly think the scientists are sock puppets to cover incompetence. That rather ridiculous graph they display at every briefing is patronising in the extreme. "You are all locked down and we are enforcing it. Here's a graph showing the use of public transport has gone down" No sh** Shylock. Jesus Christ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 16:19:41 GMT
Anybody else see today's briefing
Hancock: "Oh yeah and care workers, yeah, them too" And we will pay for induction training.
Quick question Matt, me old mucker.
How the f**k are we going to get to interviews and then training when we are in lockdown. Just saying. FFS.
Deputy Scientific Officer
"Look, the lines in the graph on the graph are going down (same transport usage graph as yesterday)
Quite honestly this is a total embarrassment.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 16:42:04 GMT
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