|
|
Post by trevorgas on Apr 14, 2020 22:37:41 GMT
Anyone listening to Trump at the moment? Wow! All WHO's fault. I am Stuart he's rolling out the old maxim the best defense is to attack!!!. We moan about our Politicians but at least they come under scrutiny which is more than you can say for that lot. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 14, 2020 22:41:02 GMT
You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. It's a bit trite to start laying blame for all this at the government's door as it's more or less the same across the World. Do you honestly believe people get up in the morning to do things that make this situation worse,wait until it's manageable then have a calm hard look at each Country, what they did how they did it,demographics,population density,contrasting health systems etc etc ,then decide what we have to learn going forward to ensure we have better outcomes next time. I'm saying that they made blatantly obvious bad calls. If you can't see that...? It's not the "same across the world" though, is it? We have the 6th highest number of cases in the world (and the only testing we do is on people coming into hospital, so realistically, we're probably 10x higher) & we have the 5th highest deaths in the world. We don't even know how many people have recovered because we're not testing. We had 2/3 weeks head start on Italy. We had 2 weeks ahead of Spain. At this time, we had also seen success stories in Germany, South Korea & Singapore. Why did the government not use these models? Every country had to ban mass gatherings & cancelled flights to certain areas of the world. What did we do? The EFL closed themselves and we didn't even attempt to slow down the flights from Northern Italy. Our airports had no checks for anyone coming from Italy or China, whilst the rest of Europe had put clear restrictions on travel from those areas. I've said my part on the PPE, ventilators & testing above. Do I believe the government "is getting up in the morning to make this situation worse"? Of course not. Do I believe they could/should have done better? Yes. Two very different things. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Apr 14, 2020 22:51:31 GMT
It's a bit trite to start laying blame for all this at the government's door as it's more or less the same across the World. Do you honestly believe people get up in the morning to do things that make this situation worse,wait until it's manageable then have a calm hard look at each Country, what they did how they did it,demographics,population density,contrasting health systems etc etc ,then decide what we have to learn going forward to ensure we have better outcomes next time. I'm saying that they made blatantly obvious bad calls. If you can't see that...? It's not the "same across the world" though, is it? We have the 6th highest number of cases in the world (and the only testing we do is on people coming into hospital, so realistically, we're probably 10x higher) & we have the 5th highest deaths in the world. We don't even know how many people have recovered because we're not testing. We had 2/3 weeks head start on Italy. We had 2 weeks ahead of Spain. At this time, we had also seen success stories in Germany, South Korea & Singapore. Why did the government not use these models? Every country had to ban mass gatherings & cancelled flights to certain areas of the world. What did we do? The EFL closed themselves and we didn't even attempt to slow down the flights from Northern Italy. Our airports had no checks for anyone coming from Italy or China, whilst the rest of Europe had put clear restrictions on travel from those areas. I've said my part on the PPE, ventilators & testing above. Do I believe the government "is getting up in the morning to make this situation worse"? Of course not. Do I believe they could/should have done better? Yes. Two very different things. Thanks I don't need my eyes tested however,I will make my judgement on whether the government made bad decisions when this is over and we have clear sight of the evidential data,just a different approach. |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 14, 2020 23:01:03 GMT
I'm saying that they made blatantly obvious bad calls. If you can't see that...? It's not the "same across the world" though, is it? We have the 6th highest number of cases in the world (and the only testing we do is on people coming into hospital, so realistically, we're probably 10x higher) & we have the 5th highest deaths in the world. We don't even know how many people have recovered because we're not testing. We had 2/3 weeks head start on Italy. We had 2 weeks ahead of Spain. At this time, we had also seen success stories in Germany, South Korea & Singapore. Why did the government not use these models? Every country had to ban mass gatherings & cancelled flights to certain areas of the world. What did we do? The EFL closed themselves and we didn't even attempt to slow down the flights from Northern Italy. Our airports had no checks for anyone coming from Italy or China, whilst the rest of Europe had put clear restrictions on travel from those areas. I've said my part on the PPE, ventilators & testing above. Do I believe the government "is getting up in the morning to make this situation worse"? Of course not. Do I believe they could/should have done better? Yes. Two very different things. Thanks I don't need my eyes tested however,I will make my judgement on whether the government made bad decisions when this is over and we have clear sight of the evidential data,just a different approach. We all need our eyes tested every year Trevor 😉 I was of the same opinion earlier, the optimist in me wanted to see how it would work out over a year. But ultimately, everything we’re doing IMO is now worse than countries such as Spain & Italy - this has led me to frankly give up on this government. When they start getting passive aggressive at criticism whilst paying themselves an extra £10k each to work from home - there is no hope they’ll do a good job IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 5:45:21 GMT
It’s not really the time for point scoring on this awful government but I just hope that when the day of reckoning comes the likes of Patel are held to account for this total disaster. No doubt they will blame Corbyn for putting them in to bat for another 5 years, seeing as even by their standards blaming the last Labour government will be a bit of a reach some well over 10 years later (although it wouldn’t surprise me if they try and claim that it was Gordon Brown who ate the bat that sparked all this off). You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. That one moment has seriously damaged her career and reputation. She handled that really poorly. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Apr 15, 2020 5:51:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Apr 15, 2020 5:59:13 GMT
You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. That one moment has seriously damaged her career and reputation. She handed that really poorly. Agreed. Priti Vacant. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 6:08:12 GMT
It’s not really the time for point scoring on this awful government but I just hope that when the day of reckoning comes the likes of Patel are held to account for this total disaster. No doubt they will blame Corbyn for putting them in to bat for another 5 years, seeing as even by their standards blaming the last Labour government will be a bit of a reach some well over 10 years later (although it wouldn’t surprise me if they try and claim that it was Gordon Brown who ate the bat that sparked all this off). You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. What about Hancock implying that it is our brave nurses and doctors fault etc for not treating PPE as the precious resource that it is. That royally watered me off to be honest. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 6:25:56 GMT
You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. What about Hancock inmplying that it is our brave nurses and doctors fault etc for not treating PPE as the precious resource that it is. That royally watered me off to be honest. In fact the only one I think has come out of this looking good on the whole is Sunak. He's impressed me throughout. Here's my tuppence worth on them all. Patel - urgh. Comes across as a bitch. Hancock - seems out of touch with what is going on at ground level and hasn't delivered on promises. Stumbling under pressure and trying to blame others (they are all good at this). Boris - Bumbling fool but likeable. Can't take him seriously. Good at hiding on big occasions but comes out smelling of roses. I think he is just the face of the party really. Raab - Typical political answers, doesn't offer anything. Sunak - Really good speeaker, seems empathic, ok maybe his job has been one of the easier ones but comes across well. Gove - Uncharismatic. Coke addict. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 7:45:44 GMT
You're right. Tbf, I tried for a while to stand up for them in hope the decisions we had made would somehow turn out to be the right ones. Unfortunately it all fell apart for me when Priti Patel came out and said "I'm sorry if you feel that way". Tories will be Tories. It's a bit trite to start laying blame for all this at the government's door as it's more or less the same across the World. Do you honestly believe people get up in the morning to do things that make this situation worse,wait until it's manageable then have a calm hard look at each Country, what they did how they did it,demographics,population density,contrasting health systems etc etc ,then decide what we have to learn going forward to ensure we have better outcomes next time. They dithered at the start and they are dithering now. Meanwhile Germany followed the WHO’s advice have come through it the strongest of everyone despite them having numerous land borders and us being an island. I agree with Keir Starmer we need to see this lot come out with an exit strategy this week so everyone has some hope for when the economy will start to be turned round. I think we all appreciate that won’t be the next week or two but “we are looking to relax if all goes well in X weeks” is a far better message than “lockdown for the foreseeable” when the rest of the world is starting to open up. People are being asked to stay at home and twiddle their thumbs when the longer the wait goes on people don’t know if they will even have a job to go back to. The mental pressures this must be putting on people on top of not being able to properly socialise must be immense. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Apr 15, 2020 7:57:47 GMT
It's a bit trite to start laying blame for all this at the government's door as it's more or less the same across the World. Do you honestly believe people get up in the morning to do things that make this situation worse,wait until it's manageable then have a calm hard look at each Country, what they did how they did it,demographics,population density,contrasting health systems etc etc ,then decide what we have to learn going forward to ensure we have better outcomes next time. They dithered at the start and they are dithering now. Meanwhile Germany followed the WHO’s advice have come through it the strongest of everyone despite them having numerous land borders and us being an island. I agree with Keir Starmer we need to see this lot come out with an exit strategy this week so everyone has some hope for when the economy will start to be turned round. I think we all appreciate that won’t be the next week or two but “we are looking to relax if all goes well in X weeks” is a far better message than “lockdown for the foreseeable” when the rest of the world is starting to open up. People are being asked to stay at home and twiddle their thumbs when the longer the wait goes on people don’t know if they will even have a job to go back to. The mental pressures this must be putting on people on top of not being able to properly socialise must be immense. Whatever happens on exiting we are stuck with this for good as it's endemic in the population like flu so I guess there will be restrictions of one sort or another until a mass vaccine is produced and we can test on an industrial scale. |
|
|
|
Post by trevorgas on Apr 15, 2020 8:07:02 GMT
Thanks I don't need my eyes tested however,I will make my judgement on whether the government made bad decisions when this is over and we have clear sight of the evidential data,just a different approach. We all need our eyes tested every year Trevor 😉 I was of the same opinion earlier, the optimist in me wanted to see how it would work out over a year. But ultimately, everything we’re doing IMO is now worse than countries such as Spain & Italy - this has led me to frankly give up on this government. When they start getting passive aggressive at criticism whilst paying themselves an extra £10k each to work from home - there is no hope they’ll do a good job IMO. True withe eye test won't be happening anytime soon😊 Will be interesting to see how the historians write this up,my name is Clive I live in Trevor North Wales,now there's a Country governed by Labour and as a lifetime Labour voter I am embarrassed at the complete shambles they have made of the last few months. Ps. Assuming you don't live in Wales at least you didn't have to listen to the Welsh National anthem being sung at 8pm Monday night😆!! |
|
|
|
Post by francegas on Apr 15, 2020 8:10:20 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government.
I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic.
The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't.
I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!!
Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them.
People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes
etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals.
I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently.
Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris
|
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 8:42:09 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. As a key worker, I felt this was too much and don't kid yourself we won't have to pay this back. I'm one of the ones not benefitting from the 80% but will end up paying for it back in the future.I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. People have been whining about the NHS being underfunded for years. This government have been power long enough to have put the NHS in a better situation if something like this did happen. Also, Hancoc kimplying our NHS staff of wasting PPE which is a real slam in the face for them as they are the ones most at risk of getting this virus.The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. Yes another person to blame, just like blaming the public for going out socialising and the nhs staff for wasting PPE. They are good at this especially Hancock.I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. False promises made about 25,000 a day etc and failing to deliver. Just be honest.People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. The care home situation is disastrous and we have only been counting hospital deaths to make the figures look better (although they are still bloody awful)I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Is it hindsight? Our first death was the 5th March yet they still allowed 250000 people to attend the Cheltenham festival which finished on the 13th March. People were suggesting way before then we should have been in lockdown. Other countries like Poland already were and are now looking at lifting it. It was lucky that the FA took the brave call to cancel those matches on the 14th/15th as otherwise could be even worse. We could have at least restricted public gatherings earlier.Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris |
|
|
|
Post by Gassy on Apr 15, 2020 9:13:36 GMT
1. I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. 2. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. 3. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. 4. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! 5. Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. 6. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. 7. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris 1. Tbf, in general the economic 'care package' is pretty good. Sunak looks to be doing a great job and comes across really well. I think we both know your point about not taking the 80% furlough if you don't like the Tories is a load of bollocks though. Might as well just not pay tax on that logic, because I don't like the Tories. 2. The issue is the reaction, FG. As GGMI has said above, blaming the NHS staff, false promises and cut backs for the last 10 years have build up to this problem. 3. As GGMI has said, yet another blame game. Very Trump-esque. So it's not their fault for PPE (it's NHS staff), it's not their fault for bad decisions (it's the scientists), it's not their fault for testing (its PHE's). Where does the buck stop? They're happy to take credit for the finance, because that looks good. But everything else isn't on them, they're just the innocent bystanders.. If you're guided by the scientific advice, it's your choice whether you implement it. Italy had become the European epicentre and we did nothing to stop the spread into the UK. No scientific advice in the world would go with that. The sign of a good leader is to listen to all sides and make good decisions, not just follow whoever throws a bone. 4. How can they be getting more than nothing? Our payouts for self-employed will be June at the earliest (if we can afford it by then). My mum has been a head teacher for 20+ years and 2 years ago decided to go into consulting schools to improve standards and pass OFSTED. As she's only done it for 2 years, she will get nothing from the government. 5. Well France were doing 10k tests in mid-March. We weren't. Are we really out testing them with our 10,000 a day? But this is the problem FG, why should we compare ourselves with countries doing a sh** job? France were the first country in Europe to get Covid, the writing has been on the wall for a long time with France. Why should we compare with countries like France, Italy & Spain who clearly got their strategies wrong? When Germany, South Korea and Singapore clearly got their strategies right. It's not rocket science.. We also clearly have the capacity to complete 100k+ tests a day, so simply put - why aren't we doing it? Where are the 25k testing that was promised? 6. I'm personally not massively bothered by the lack of figures coming from care homes. I think it's really difficult to get this info in time. We can see this happening globally. 7. I do agree that they're trying their best. Or rather, I believe Boris & Sunak are. Patel & Raab are clearly incompetent. We do have the benefit of hindsight, I can probably forgive not joining the EU bid for PPE because, whilst they cocked it up, they seem to have done well with ventilators (not that they've arrived yet, so jury out). But not closing things earlier (when it was pretty f*cking obvious we needed to lockdown), lack of testing, not checking arrivals from China & Italy/not stopping travel to and from the region - these are all blatant cock ups that we could see at the time, no hindsight it needed. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:15:58 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris And look how cack-handedly they have implemented that- thousands of people have been penalised for starting new jobs after 28th of Feb and have been thrown to the wolves while companies *cough* football clubs *cough* with millions in the bank have been taking advantage because there is no means testing, as a result the government were expecting 3 million claimants when it’s actually more like 9 million! They didn’t really have a choice but to implement that bail out and as for the amount, what are rents like in France? There are a LOT of people in this country have been caught up in the trap of paying 50% of their income (in London and the south east in particular) just on rent never mind bills and council tax so cutting subsidised wages by more than 80% (that 80% still being subject to tax) would leave a fair few people unable to meet their rent payments let alone put food on the table at the end of it. They literally had their hands tied in implementing that bail out at a rate of 80% because the alternative was some 3 to 9 million on the dole, destitution and long term damage to the economy far greater than stumping up 80% of the average wage (I’m not sure what people who are earning more than the average wage do) for 3 months. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:19:56 GMT
1. I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. 2. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. 3. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. 4. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! 5. Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. 6. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. 7. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris 1. Tbf, in general the economic 'care package' is pretty good. Sunak looks to be doing a great job and comes across really well. I think we both know your point about not taking the 80% furlough if you don't like the Tories is a load of bollocks though. Might as well just not pay tax on that logic, because I don't like the Tories. 2. The issue is the reaction, FG. As GGMI has said above, blaming the NHS staff, false promises and cut backs for the last 10 years have build up to this problem. 3. As GGMI has said, yet another blame game. Very Trump-esque. So it's not their fault for PPE (it's NHS staff), it's not their fault for bad decisions (it's the scientists), it's not their fault for testing (its PHE's). Where does the buck stop? They're happy to take credit for the finance, because that looks good. But everything else isn't on them, they're just the innocent bystanders.. If you're guided by the scientific advice, it's your choice whether you implement it. Italy had become the European epicentre and we did nothing to stop the spread into the UK. No scientific advice in the world would go with that. The sign of a good leader is to listen to all sides and make good decisions, not just follow whoever throws a bone. 4. How can they be getting more than nothing? Our payouts for self-employed will be June at the earliest (if we can afford it by then). My mum has been a head teacher for 20+ years and 2 years ago decided to go into consulting schools to improve standards and pass OFSTED. As she's only done it for 2 years, she will get nothing from the government. 5. Well France were doing 10k tests in mid-March. We weren't. Are we really out testing them with our 10,000 a day? But this is the problem FG, why should we compare ourselves with countries doing a sh** job? France were the first country in Europe to get Covid, the writing has been on the wall for a long time with France. Why should we compare with countries like France, Italy & Spain who clearly got their strategies wrong? When Germany, South Korea and Singapore clearly got their strategies right. It's not rocket science.. We also clearly have the capacity to complete 100k+ tests a day, so simply put - why aren't we doing it? Where are the 25k testing that was promised? 6. I'm personally not massively bothered by the lack of figures coming from care homes. I think it's really difficult to get this info in time. We can see this happening globally. 7. I do agree that they're trying their best. Or rather, I believe Boris & Sunak are. Patel & Raab are clearly incompetent. We do have the benefit of hindsight, I can probably forgive not joining the EU bid for PPE because, whilst they cocked it up, they seem to have done well with ventilators (not that they've arrived yet, so jury out). But not closing things earlier (when it was pretty f*cking obvious we needed to lockdown), lack of testing, not checking arrivals from China & Italy/not stopping travel to and from the region - these are all blatant cock ups that we could see at the time, no hindsight it needed. Exactly, things like locking down the country whilst allowing foreign nationals to fly in un-tested just beggars belief. It’s been a complete jumble of approaches. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:23:30 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris I think we should wait until this is over before we undertake a postmortem on the performance of our Government. What we can do is note some of the facts that are emerging so we can apply that learning later on. So, starter for 10. In 2015 Jeremy Hunt ordered and ran a Pandemic Simulation. Very good, the sort of planning you would hope for. Many of the stock and logistical issues were identified. They did eff all about it. Why not? They put the deficit target before the NHS, Social Care and all the people who work in them. Now these wankers are calling it our"Great NHS", people who work in them "heroes" These are the same people who voted against a significant pay increase for nurses. So, when we are on the other side of this, let's remember that the decisions of this government mostly likely led to the death of some NHS staff. And led to the death of some folk in social care. When you are wasting your time in self indulgent clapping out of your windows, remember that. |
|
|
|
Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 15, 2020 9:25:39 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris I think we should wait until this is over before we undertake a postmortem on the performance of our Government. What we can do is note some of the facts that are emerging so we can apply that learning later on. So, starter for 10. In 2015 Jeremy Hunt ordered and ran a Pandemic Simulation. Very good, the sort of planning you would hope for. Many of the stock and logistical issues were identified. They did eff all about it. Why not? They put the deficit target before the NHS, Social Care and all the people who work in them.
Now these wankers are calling it our"Great NHS", people who work in them "heroes"
These are the same people who voted against a significant pay increase for nurses.
So, when we are on the other side of this, let's remember that the decisions of this government mostly likely led to the death of some NHS staff. And led to the death of some folk in social care.
When you are wasting your time in self indulgent clapping out of your windows, remember that.True, that alone ensures you can't trust or place faith in them. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:36:18 GMT
I suppose all the Boris Bashers will gracefully not be accepting the 80% of their pay from this "awful" government. I don't recall this time last year anyone (including Piers bloody Morgan) whining that within the NHS there is insufficient PPE should there be a global pandemic. The government are politicians not scientists. They have followed what scientists have advised them to do and are coming under criticism. Imagine if they blatantly ignored the scientific advice. A real case of damned if you do damned if you don't. I live in France and furloughed employees receive 70% and that's if you qualify and can work out how to get. Self employed are not getting anywhere near they are in the UK. France has a very good healthcare system and surprise surprise there's a lack of PPE as there is in probably every country except China!! Yes I agree testing is a problem but we compare ourselves to Germany a country that has far more test labs than the UK. Why not compare ourselves to France where we are out testing them. People are complaining that the UK doesn't include care home deaths so the death rate is actually higher than reported. Every death is one too many but I believe many deaths are recorded as covid-19 just because they test positive for coronavirus. How many people are passing away due to heart attacks/strokes etc but because they have tested positive their unfortunate death is included in the Covid-19 death totals. I think the government is doing it's best to manage a situation no one can compare with. It's very easy with hindsight to say what they've done wrong and what you would have done differently. Sorry guys rant over...Go Boris Top post. I keep saying this as well. Here in Germany there are the same issues with PPE. You also only get 60% of your wage, or 67% if married. The amounts of money being handed out are far lower in Germany compared to the UK. |
|
