George Floyd - America so f**ked up

Thanks for your answer, TG. I'm very curious to see if anyone actually believes there isn't racism here. And if they do believe it, then why argue against it?

Regarding your last point, this is more idiots being xenophobic I believe, rather than racism. Which as we know is also rife throughout the world. Having lived abroad from 5 years, I can tell you then xenophobia is not nice. The comments aren't the problem, it's the institutional xenophobia that weighs you down.

Shocker. No proof to back it up. 

I guess you don't apply to the same rules. 

You're like them on otib - you claim you don't give a damn, yet all you seem to do is talk about me on here.

I'll have my last word, and no doubt I'll see you come back next week and bring me into a conversation from no where & call me a Special lady garden again, as always.

You've met him?  

Yes back in 2006.After the board meltdown.
He is friendly with John M former chair of the SC and I think helped the SC when it needed some commercial guidance. In the preceding years I had volunteered along with John and many others to set up the Share Scheme, my job was to draft the Share Scheme Agreement which my friend Roger Cooper negotiated with Geoff Dunford. We were both friendly also with Kim Stuckey, the former fans director.

Oldie has, in my opinion of course, misrepresented what happened on the other forum, but an indisputable fact is that he was the only person forced to apologise for personal insults and profanities. 

This forum is quite different to the other one, so you'll have to forgive me if I mis-step whilst I'm finding my feet, I honestly have no interest in upsetting anybody, I just like well founded debate, grounded in research and data rather than emotion and 'feelings'. Let's see how we go.

What you appear to be arguing for is equality of outcome rather than of opportunity. 

Equality of opportunity is what we need to be striving towards. I'll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you and argue for that.

Finally, it's Oldie that has been making assertions on here, the questions are all his to answer, Al, Eric, whoever they are, myself, have no case to reply to that's not how civilised debates are conducted. You can't make a statement then demand that someone else demonstrate that it's incorrect. The person making a positive assertion adopts the burden of proof. Over to Oldie.

My last word on this childishness.
I did call this guy a pri*ck on the other forum, which with a cooler head the next day I, unprompted, posted a public apology to the forum in general.
Let that be the end of it.

I find the separation of equality of opportunity and equality of outcome rather simplistic. There can be no egalitarianism across ethnicity where ethnicity is associated with social deprivation and social deprivation is known to reduce opportunity. The two arent mutually exclusive, they could never be. Mobility is at an all time low, yet you argue BAME have the same opportunities. So then, tell us why you think they simply dont achieve?

And welcome to the forum, I hope your motives are well intentioned as described.

Ok, I don't want to get in the middle of your previous relationship/discussions with Oldie. However, you do seem especially keen on driving home your question. There clearly seems to be an issue with each other, so maybe open the debate up to everyone, rather than poking Oldie? No offence, but 10 posts in and 10 posts all about him?

With regards to equality of outcome vs opportunity, the two often come hand in hand. How do you define opportunity? Is it based on getting an interview? Is it based on just being considered for something? If so, then why are we not seeing more BAME people in positions that reflect our society, statistically speaking? I'd personally question anyone who doesn't want equal opportunity and outcome. 

You've refused to answer my question to you (so has Al & eric by the way, but we've seen Trevor & warehamgas reply), yet you consistently push for Oldie to answer you. I haven't demanded anyone demonstrate my statement (that was from the BBC article that you in fact referenced to Oldie to prove your point, although it doesn't actually prove your point) is incorrect. I've asked three of you to answer a question, which you're refusing to do. Why? 

There is so much evidence out there that the UK is still unfortunately institutionally racist. The reason I'm asking is that if anyone who actually believes that it's not, say so on here and show the evidence as to why not. 

I'm not sure I understand why you feel you can question Oldie, but now myself and OB have questioned you - you don't feel like you have the need to reply to those questions. 

Happy to review the evidence for your initial assertion if you will post it? You're initial assertion to us, on here.