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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:11:13 GMT
Please don't answer questions with questions, I've tried to start a sensible conversation with you. Would you like to try to hold one? If so, please expand on that area of your thoughts. I point the learned gentleman to the response I gave to Gassy earlier in this thread. Help me out, please give a bespoke reply to my question. I'm trying hard here to see where the debate can go.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:22:26 GMT
The thing is Gassy, wouldn't it be good if people like Jung said, for example, "Oldie, that's just not right and this is why" Instead I lay my thoughts out and what do we get? "You might be right (by the inference from the responses), so why don't you give away every thing we think you have?" Exactly, Oldie. Thus proving my earlier point, there is no want for debate. Just desperation of points scoring against you. Sounds familiar to the point scoring exercise against Nobby!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:27:07 GMT
Perhaps the most vocal on financial rebalancing should set up some sort of JustGiving arrangement where they put their money where their mouths are and help the most needy rather than just making loads of noise and doing nothing until politicians force change? Is that, in your opinion, the best way to drive change about income distribution? Maybe not the best way but those yet to be convinced of that argument would respect the opposing view more if people put their money where’s their mouths are. Taking a posturing, moral high ground telling everyone else what to do in an ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ manner will alienate more than bring together.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2020 15:32:22 GMT
Is that, in your opinion, the best way to drive change about income distribution? Maybe not the best way but those yet to be convinced of that argument would respect the opposing view more if people put their money where’s their mouths are. Taking a posturing, moral high ground telling everyone else what to do in an ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ manner will alienate more than bring together. Where has oldie told anyone what to do? Jung was going on the same angle, but since took that back very quickly. Exactly, Oldie. Thus proving my earlier point, there is no want for debate. Just desperation of points scoring against you. Sounds familiar to the point scoring exercise against Nobby! In which you called me a bully on Nobby, but also support Jung in bullying Oldie. Hmmm
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:35:35 GMT
I point the learned gentleman to the response I gave to Gassy earlier in this thread. Help me out, please give a bespoke reply to my question. I'm trying hard here to see where the debate can go. Don't be so lazy. Follow the debate. Gassy asked me a very specific question is and I answered it. If you don't want to take part in the detail, fair enough. Stop pontificating on subject where you have actually contributed nothing.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2020 15:37:41 GMT
You suggested it. I've already quote it, but I'll quote it again as it seems to be difficult. You clearly see this as a cause and effect. So much that instead of exploring other angles to help the income distribution, you mentioned it three times to Oldie. In fact you didn't just mention it, you told, dared and essentially tried to bully him into doing it. If you don't believe it's the best way, why did you keep mentioning it over and over? You've ignored my other question, please address it: "You've since all but admitted yourself that Oldie hasn't told anyone to give away their assets, so why are you suggesting he should?" It's not a coincidence that you refuse to answer this, is it? If you post about telling people not to do a specific thing was in reference to a coca-cola reference, you then surely admit that you were telling someone what to do! Who are you to do that? As you've had your pants pulled down multiple times, then yes. I'd say we're done. It's not even my suggestion, income distribution is Oldie's subject, so I'm not responsible for exploring different opportunities, but I have asked him to expand on his thoughts. It doesn't matter if I ask 1000 times. that in no way suggests that I believe what I'm asking Oldie relates to what I think would be the best course of action. No, I wasn't telling anybody what to do with the Cola reference, is this the 4th or 5th time I've explained it; in that example if I were drinking the soda whilst suggesting that others shouldn't then you may have a ghost of a point, but I didn't, so you don't. Sorry but I'm now bored with replying to the exact same points time after time, so won't address any of them again. If that means that you win then I can live with it. No, you're just desperate to score points on him, making a point that is completely irrelevant. If you clearly wanted to hear his opinion, you wouldn't have tried to bully him into giving away his lives earnings, would you? You're clearly confused. I'm not even talking about the coca-cola reference, I thought that was pretty clear. I am saying that you were telling Oldie to give his capital away. Again, nothing to do with coca-cola metaphor. You were telling him what to do, which is not your position to do so. And you know it. Third time lucky on ignoring a very obvious question. Maybe I'll bold it because you're clearly deliberately ignoring it. "You've ignored my other question, please address it: "You've since all but admitted yourself that Oldie hasn't told anyone to give away their assets, so why are you suggesting he should?" It's not a coincidence that you refuse to answer this, is it?"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:43:46 GMT
Maybe not the best way but those yet to be convinced of that argument would respect the opposing view more if people put their money where’s their mouths are. Taking a posturing, moral high ground telling everyone else what to do in an ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ manner will alienate more than bring together. Where has oldie told anyone what to do? Jung was going on the same angle, but since took that back very quickly. Sounds familiar to the point scoring exercise against Nobby! In which you called me a bully on Nobby, but also support Jung in bullying Oldie. Hmmm I don’t know either of them personally but the tone and language used in both sets of exchanges is hugely different. Jung seems to have been quite courteous imo
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2020 15:47:33 GMT
Where has oldie told anyone what to do? Jung was going on the same angle, but since took that back very quickly. In which you called me a bully on Nobby, but also support Jung in bullying Oldie. Hmmm I don’t know either of them personally but the tone and language used in both sets of exchanges is hugely different. Jung seems to have been quite courteous imo If Jung is politely bullying Oldie, that makes it ok then?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 15:52:06 GMT
I don’t know either of them personally but the tone and language used in both sets of exchanges is hugely different. Jung seems to have been quite courteous imo If Jung is politely bullying Oldie, that makes it ok then? Has he been bullying? Perhaps Boris Johnson should complain of bullying if Starmer keeps asking him awkward questions day after day?
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2020 16:08:36 GMT
If Jung is politely bullying Oldie, that makes it ok then? Has he been bullying? Perhaps Boris Johnson should complain of bullying if Starmer keeps asking him awkward questions day after day? Why, is Oldie being paid to answer Jungs questions? Or is Jung just picking on Oldie for no apparently reason? But glad to see, based on the logic that you've accepted I didn't bully Nobby. Can't have it both ways. Let's leave it there, no?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 16:13:48 GMT
Has he been bullying? Perhaps Boris Johnson should complain of bullying if Starmer keeps asking him awkward questions day after day? Why, is Oldie being paid to answer Jungs questions? Or is Jung just picking on Oldie for no apparently reason? But glad to see, based on the logic that you've accepted I didn't bully Nobby. Can't have it both ways. Let's leave it there, no? Feel free to have the final word. I know it’s important.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 16:22:44 GMT
It's not even my suggestion, income distribution is Oldie's subject, so I'm not responsible for exploring different opportunities, but I have asked him to expand on his thoughts. It doesn't matter if I ask 1000 times. that in no way suggests that I believe what I'm asking Oldie relates to what I think would be the best course of action. No, I wasn't telling anybody what to do with the Cola reference, is this the 4th or 5th time I've explained it; in that example if I were drinking the soda whilst suggesting that others shouldn't then you may have a ghost of a point, but I didn't, so you don't. Sorry but I'm now bored with replying to the exact same points time after time, so won't address any of them again. If that means that you win then I can live with it. No, you're just desperate to score points on him, making a point that is completely irrelevant. If you clearly wanted to hear his opinion, you wouldn't have tried to bully him into giving away his lives earnings, would you? You're clearly confused. I'm not even talking about the coca-cola reference, I thought that was pretty clear. I am saying that you were telling Oldie to give his capital away. Again, nothing to do with coca-cola metaphor. You were telling him what to do, which is not your position to do so. And you know it. Third time lucky on ignoring a very obvious question. Maybe I'll bold it because you're clearly deliberately ignoring it. "You've ignored my other question, please address it: "You've since all but admitted yourself that Oldie hasn't told anyone to give away their assets, so why are you suggesting he should?" It's not a coincidence that you refuse to answer this, is it?"
For the 2nd time, please read my questions to Oldie, I've asked him specific questions today to try to identify how his vision of income distribution would flatten out in practice. I dared him to, and said that doing so would support his position, and that he would, in my opinion, appear less credible if he wouldn't commit to doing something, that was the extent of it. The answer to your 3rd (highlighted) question is contained within the 2 lines above. I haven't refused to reply to a single thing, in fact, I've dealt with this point multiple times for you, just repeating that I haven't doesn't make you correct. But conveniently, you made an assertion which when challenged you failed to provide the basis for. Honestly, this is as easy as swatting away flies, that's why I'm bored with it, so you have the last word.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 16:25:33 GMT
Help me out, please give a bespoke reply to my question. I'm trying hard here to see where the debate can go. Don't be so lazy. Follow the debate. Gassy asked me a very specific question is and I answered it. If you don't want to take part in the detail, fair enough. Stop pontificating on subject where you have actually contributed nothing. That's what happens when you ask a perfectly polite question. Don't be so lazy. Stop pontificating. Thanks for raising the tone of things Oldie. I tried.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 16:31:05 GMT
Jung
"For the 2nd time, please read my questions to Oldie, I've asked him specific questions today to try to identify how his vision of income distribution would flatten out in practice."
And I answered, to specific question posed by Gassy on exactly the same line of questioning. There for all to read, criticize, debunk, whatever takes your fancy. So stop dancing on a sixpence.
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Post by Gassy on Jul 3, 2020 16:33:16 GMT
No, you're just desperate to score points on him, making a point that is completely irrelevant. If you clearly wanted to hear his opinion, you wouldn't have tried to bully him into giving away his lives earnings, would you? You're clearly confused. I'm not even talking about the coca-cola reference, I thought that was pretty clear. I am saying that you were telling Oldie to give his capital away. Again, nothing to do with coca-cola metaphor. You were telling him what to do, which is not your position to do so. And you know it. Third time lucky on ignoring a very obvious question. Maybe I'll bold it because you're clearly deliberately ignoring it. "You've ignored my other question, please address it: "You've since all but admitted yourself that Oldie hasn't told anyone to give away their assets, so why are you suggesting he should?" It's not a coincidence that you refuse to answer this, is it?"
For the 2nd time, please read my questions to Oldie, I've asked him specific questions today to try to identify how his vision of income distribution would flatten out in practice. I dared him to, and said that doing so would support his position, and that he would, in my opinion, appear less credible if he wouldn't commit to doing something, that was the extent of it. The answer to your 3rd (highlighted) question is contained within the 2 lines above. I haven't refused to reply to a single thing, in fact, I've dealt with this point multiple times for you, just repeating that I haven't doesn't make you correct. But conveniently, you made an assertion which when challenged you failed to provide the basis for. Honestly, this is as easy as swatting away flies, that's why I'm bored with it, so you have the last word. No, you dared him to - otherwise you said you'd never allow him to speak of the conversation again. "Im serious" I believe it what you said. So clearly you're not as innocent as you'd like to try and show. You've been caught out on so many posts here and now all you can do is try to distance yourself from them. First you said I quoted you out of context (which is hilarious because it's all you do to Oldie), now you're saying that you only dared him to because you believe it would make him appear less credible - you're just a gentle flower really. So kind. I do love the last word comment, because its always a last ditch effort to try and show that you've got some sort of high ground, when in reality it's because you have nothing else to say because you know you've had your pants pulled down on multiple occasions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:29:52 GMT
Jung "For the 2nd time, please read my questions to Oldie, I've asked him specific questions today to try to identify how his vision of income distribution would flatten out in practice." And I answered, to specific question posed by Gassy on exactly the same line of questioning. There for all to read, criticize, debunk, whatever takes your fancy. So stop dancing on a sixpence. I think I've found it, there was some word salad posted by you this morning with virtually no detail other than 'funded through tax'. Is that it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:34:09 GMT
Jung "For the 2nd time, please read my questions to Oldie, I've asked him specific questions today to try to identify how his vision of income distribution would flatten out in practice." And I answered, to specific question posed by Gassy on exactly the same line of questioning. There for all to read, criticize, debunk, whatever takes your fancy. So stop dancing on a sixpence. I think I've found it, there was some word salad posted by you this morning with virtually no detail other than 'funded through tax'. Is that it? No idea Quote it, Gassy did. But anyway enough of you. It's thoroughly boring as others have said privately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:37:37 GMT
I think I've found it, there was some word salad posted by you this morning with virtually no detail other than 'funded through tax'. Is that it? No idea Quote it, Gassy did. But anyway enough of you. It's thoroughly boring as others have said privately. Calm and polite as ever, always a pleasure. This;
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:52:14 GMT
No idea Quote it, Gassy did. But anyway enough of you. It's thoroughly boring as others have said privately. Calm and polite as ever, always a pleasure. This; Nope
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 21:06:45 GMT
Calm and polite as ever, always a pleasure. This; Nope In which case I have no idea. Can you explain your costing model for these reforms to income distribution please as I've looked at every reply made to Gassy today and, unless I'm missing something, I can't see it. I did try as you can see from the quote above. Come on, you said earlier that you were inviting criticism, attempts at debunking, we may even agree on some of it, but I do need to be able to find it first.
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