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Post by oldie on Apr 11, 2022 11:24:28 GMT
You'd agree with Platos line of thought, that democracy is basically a sham? Definitely. People of certain backgrounds simply don't get the same opportunity or education to make it to the top in politics. When they do they are widely hounded or lambasted by journalists who were also part of the 2 tier education system. Democracy exists to perpetuate the status quo of ensuring the right people are in power. I've read a lot of opinions on these threads and it's almost laughable that anyone genuinely believes voting for a person with a different colour rosette will make the slightest bit of difference. We are all idiots. Educated to be, bred to be and subjugated to be idiots. Well that's the extreme cynical view. Although I agree our system has morphed into one where there is a political class which transcends party boundaries, are you suggesting we just give up and accept it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 12:06:40 GMT
You'd agree with Platos line of thought, that democracy is basically a sham? Definitely. People of certain backgrounds simply don't get the same opportunity or education to make it to the top in politics. When they do they are widely hounded or lambasted by journalists who were also part of the 2 tier education system. Democracy exists to perpetuate the status quo of ensuring the right people are in power. I've read a lot of opinions on these threads and it's almost laughable that anyone genuinely believes voting for a person with a different colour rosette will make the slightest bit of difference. We are all idiots. Educated to be, bred to be and subjugated to be idiots. Kind of clears up your post saying that brexit/trump etc voters were the idiots! Eugenics has played a key part of this current system we find ourselves in for sure. So many people are quite aware of the psychological warfare used to subjugate colonies over centuries, but refuse to accept similar tactics could be used on them... Or they're happy to be ruled over as long as they get their little kicks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 12:36:11 GMT
Definitely. People of certain backgrounds simply don't get the same opportunity or education to make it to the top in politics. When they do they are widely hounded or lambasted by journalists who were also part of the 2 tier education system. Democracy exists to perpetuate the status quo of ensuring the right people are in power. I've read a lot of opinions on these threads and it's almost laughable that anyone genuinely believes voting for a person with a different colour rosette will make the slightest bit of difference. We are all idiots. Educated to be, bred to be and subjugated to be idiots. Well that's the extreme cynical view. Although I agree our system has morphed into one where there is a political class which transcends party boundaries, are you suggesting we just give up and accept it? It's all a dead cat designed to disenfranchise people from voting - the fewer people that vote, the more likely that the ruling party will stay in power.
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 11, 2022 12:54:44 GMT
Definitely. People of certain backgrounds simply don't get the same opportunity or education to make it to the top in politics. When they do they are widely hounded or lambasted by journalists who were also part of the 2 tier education system. Democracy exists to perpetuate the status quo of ensuring the right people are in power. I've read a lot of opinions on these threads and it's almost laughable that anyone genuinely believes voting for a person with a different colour rosette will make the slightest bit of difference. We are all idiots. Educated to be, bred to be and subjugated to be idiots. Kind of clears up your post saying that brexit/trump etc voters were the idiots! Eugenics has played a key part of this current system we find ourselves in for sure. So many people are quite aware of the psychological warfare used to subjugate colonies over centuries, but refuse to accept similar tactics could be used on them... Or they're happy to be ruled over as long as they get their little kicks. Television, Social Media, Mobile phones, even football. Recreation for the masses. It's not hard to keep the proles distracted while they rob us blind and use us for labour so they don't have to do the dirty jobs.
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 11, 2022 12:56:42 GMT
Definitely. People of certain backgrounds simply don't get the same opportunity or education to make it to the top in politics. When they do they are widely hounded or lambasted by journalists who were also part of the 2 tier education system. Democracy exists to perpetuate the status quo of ensuring the right people are in power. I've read a lot of opinions on these threads and it's almost laughable that anyone genuinely believes voting for a person with a different colour rosette will make the slightest bit of difference. We are all idiots. Educated to be, bred to be and subjugated to be idiots. Well that's the extreme cynical view. Although I agree our system has morphed into one where there is a political class which transcends party boundaries, are you suggesting we just give up and accept it? Yes. You can't win. You were never supposed to.
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Post by oldie on Apr 11, 2022 12:57:56 GMT
Kind of clears up your post saying that brexit/trump etc voters were the idiots! Eugenics has played a key part of this current system we find ourselves in for sure. So many people are quite aware of the psychological warfare used to subjugate colonies over centuries, but refuse to accept similar tactics could be used on them... Or they're happy to be ruled over as long as they get their little kicks. Television, Social Media, Mobile phones, even football. Recreation for the masses. It's not hard to keep the proles distracted while they rob us blind and use us for labour so they don't have to do the dirty jobs. Those are the problems, what's the solution?
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Post by oldie on Apr 11, 2022 12:59:40 GMT
Well that's the extreme cynical view. Although I agree our system has morphed into one where there is a political class which transcends party boundaries, are you suggesting we just give up and accept it? Yes. You can't win. You were never supposed to. Well good luck with that. The more you drop out of the "process" the greater the free reign you give them. That's what they want.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 11, 2022 14:06:24 GMT
Well that's the extreme cynical view. Although I agree our system has morphed into one where there is a political class which transcends party boundaries, are you suggesting we just give up and accept it? Yes. You can't win. You were never supposed to. Got to disagree there, what you are suggesting would become a self fulfilling prophecy not the end game.
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 11, 2022 14:47:23 GMT
Television, Social Media, Mobile phones, even football. Recreation for the masses. It's not hard to keep the proles distracted while they rob us blind and use us for labour so they don't have to do the dirty jobs. Those are the problems, what's the solution? I do not believe there is one.
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 11, 2022 18:04:21 GMT
I look at it the other way a distinct lack of quality and options available to voters,just like here Can’t agree with this . just because you’re a bit disgruntled with the status quo doesn’t mean you should vote for a fascist or something that would harm the country ( Brexit ) . wait a minute….. 🙄 That wasn't the point,poor choice creates apathy,which in my view leads extremes at both ends of the political spectrum the potential to get elected . Folk aren't just a bit disgruntled their mightly watered off .
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Post by yattongas on Apr 11, 2022 19:06:25 GMT
Can’t agree with this . just because you’re a bit disgruntled with the status quo doesn’t mean you should vote for a fascist or something that would harm the country ( Brexit ) . wait a minute….. 🙄 That wasn't the point,poor choice creates apathy,which in my view leads extremes at both ends of the political spectrum the potential to get elected . Folk aren't just a bit disgruntled their mightly watered off . Yeah I get that was the point but I don’t agree it then leads you to vote for a fascist or for the far left. It’ll be interesting to see the voter turnout out when Macron goes up against the fascist. Apathy I get and not bothering to vote but France has flirted with the far right for years . Let’s hope they get another kicking when it matters.
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Post by oldie on Apr 11, 2022 19:10:05 GMT
Those are the problems, what's the solution? I do not believe there is one. Ok, what is your predicted outcome?
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Post by aghast on Apr 11, 2022 22:12:32 GMT
I do like Churchill's quote about government:
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"
Not sure if he really meant or believed it, but it's a pragmatic sentiment. and, so far as I can see, true.
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 12, 2022 4:53:38 GMT
I do not believe there is one. Ok, what is your predicted outcome? I have already answered that. The outcome is to maintain the status quo. Keep the rich rich and in power. Keep the majority stupid and entertained. It's been this way for 1000s of years. As with the Churchill quote, democracy is the least worse option but let's not pretend it has any more lofty ideals at its core. It's little more than a shared dictatorship.
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Post by oldie on Apr 12, 2022 5:37:22 GMT
Ok, what is your predicted outcome? I have already answered that. The outcome is to maintain the status quo. Keep the rich rich and in power. Keep the majority stupid and entertained. It's been this way for 1000s of years. As with the Churchill quote, democracy is the least worse option but let's not pretend it has any more lofty ideals at its core. It's little more than a shared dictatorship. Ok, so whilst you are heavily critical, you are prepared to stand idly by and let the situation deteriorate further, which it has badly since 2016. Do you think your children will thank you for that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 7:00:48 GMT
Remember when trump said that he could kill someone and still not lose voters? (In 2016)
That sums up democracy.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 12, 2022 7:05:00 GMT
Remember when trump said that he could kill someone and still not lose voters? (In 2016) That sums up democracy. Whereas the alternatives put that into practice.
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Post by fintanstack on Apr 12, 2022 7:42:47 GMT
Remember when trump said that he could kill someone and still not lose voters? (In 2016) That sums up democracy. Whereas the alternatives put that into practice. Which is why Western democracy is the least worse option. I'm just acknowledging that it's not really that great either and the odds are stacked against the average person in the street.
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Post by stuart1974 on Apr 12, 2022 7:46:30 GMT
Whereas the alternatives put that into practice. Which is why Western democracy is the least worse option. I'm just acknowledging that it's not really that great either and the odds are stacked against the average person in the street. Wasn't aimed at your view, Grover seems to want to live in a benign socialist dictatorship. Not too many of them around.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 8:00:05 GMT
Remember when trump said that he could kill someone and still not lose voters? (In 2016) That sums up democracy. Whereas the alternatives put that into practice. Examples? Because I've no idea what you are saying.
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