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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 13:03:07 GMT
AFAIK it’s mostly about election fraud, political parties have to declare their donors for amounts above a nominal amount (£10k or so I think). The depressing takeaway from that is that the Tories have somewhere in the region of at least 3 x the amount of donations as Labour (at the last election Labour iirc got something like £250k in donations whereas the Tories were in the order of millions). So you can see for a start the unequal playing field- imagine the damage Cummings can do with a sizeable budget for his dis-information campaigns. The only thing of note wrt to donors is the former minister of Putin’s who has moved to London and donated sizeable sums to the Tories. Personally it leaves me cold that any foreign National is allowed to contribute funds to warp our democracy let alone one formerly associated with Putin and as I said previously, you don’t just cut ties with a man of his power and influence- if you stray too far you can wind up dead in mysterious circumstances. So for me there is a question mark over his influence on the Tory party. Wrt to election fraud obviously over the years the likes of the CIA will almost certainly have used physical influence to try and install puppet governments whose aims align with that of the West. But apparently the first instance of electronic influence/fraud was by Russia during the Ukrainian election in 2014/2015 (I forget which year) closely followed by a big flexing of the muscles during the American election when there was hacking of servers, phishing attacks and even rumours of attempts to hack an electronic ballot box in one state. Against such a backdrop does anyone dare believe that attempts weren’t made to play a part in the U.K. election? In fact we saw the leaking of the document regarding the sale of the NHS to the US in the run up to the election. Dominic Raab has pretty much admitted that some meddling has taken place. Russia’s hacking prowess is currently the most advanced in the world and they have proven in recent years that they can successfully shutdown entire electrical grids remotely. Compared to the damage they can do to infrastructure electoral tampering seems rather trivial by comparison. I see Putin has changed the Russian constitution this year to allow him two more terms so interesting times ahead for Western democracy.... What is the book? I’ve read a bundle, but the ones that have stood out so far are: “The Russians among us” (about Russian spy policy since the fall of the iron curtain) “From Russia with blood” about Russian assassinations on foreign soil and “Sandworm” which is specifically about Russian hacking operations and strategy. The hacking stuff in particular seems to have gone under the radar apart from the high profile stuff related to the US election. One thread runs through all these sources: that there has been a clear escalation in Russian provocation of the west since 2010 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 14:02:13 GMT
....and right on cue in the papers today are claims that Russia has tried to hack into vaccine trial data and steal it as they are suddenly claiming to be able to produce 200 million doses of an experimental vaccine. The big question is when will they be sanctioned for their state sponsored hacking, or more to the point, who is brave enough to sanction them?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 14:38:23 GMT
Rather than adopt a condescending tone, if you have something to say why don't you just say it? That's the problem with text, no intonation, in my head it wasn't condescending at all. It was just pointing out that Starmer isn't all he's being made up to be. You can't have these things all your own way, you can't throw pretty nasty insults at an entire nation, yet sound all butt hurt just because I've not agonised over the exact tone of a short, I thought neutral, post which was written in maybe 10 seconds. I'm sorry if you found something in the way it was written that wasn't to your liking, but to be honest, I've quite enjoyed the last couple of days where we've had robust but polite exchanges, let's try to move forward in that spirit if possible please? But if you want me to find details of something Starmer was claiming in an attempt to discredit the government, which was totally incorrect, I'll find the detail again. It wasn't a good look. Forget all that.(I am not butt hurt ffs, just pointing out that the tone you take provokes argument rather than informed debate). So your point on Starmer was? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 14:40:13 GMT
....and right on cue in the papers today are claims that Russia has tried to hack into vaccine trial data and steal it as they are suddenly claiming to be able to produce 200 million doses of an experimental vaccine. The big question is when will they be sanctioned for their state sponsored hacking, or more to the point, who is brave enough to sanction them? Everybody is brave enough, but the key issue is the vital energy supplies to Europe. It's a game of cat and mouse. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 15:27:07 GMT
That's the problem with text, no intonation, in my head it wasn't condescending at all. It was just pointing out that Starmer isn't all he's being made up to be. You can't have these things all your own way, you can't throw pretty nasty insults at an entire nation, yet sound all butt hurt just because I've not agonised over the exact tone of a short, I thought neutral, post which was written in maybe 10 seconds. I'm sorry if you found something in the way it was written that wasn't to your liking, but to be honest, I've quite enjoyed the last couple of days where we've had robust but polite exchanges, let's try to move forward in that spirit if possible please? But if you want me to find details of something Starmer was claiming in an attempt to discredit the government, which was totally incorrect, I'll find the detail again. It wasn't a good look. Forget all that.(I am not butt hurt ffs, just pointing out that the tone you take provokes argument rather than informed debate). So your point on Starmer was? The tone and content of that looks to be designed to escalate friction rather than encourage friendly, yet robust debate. Do you want an exchange of views or an argument? As said, Starmer used just the first half of a paragraph from a letter in an attempt to discredit the government, the usual left leaning media were all over it, calling him 'forensic' as always, but what wasn't so widely reported was that the rest of that paragraph was published, and it totally negated the point that Mr Boring was trying to make. I've asked twice if you would like me to find details, you obviously don't read things properly or you would have replied either in the affirmative or negative. So that leaves a question, just how informed can debate be with you when you obviously aren't engaging with simple questions and offers to provide information? That question is supported by the fact that you never did confirm that you had bothered investing a mere 20 minutes watching the video from Mr Riley putting forward the case that USA liberal policies, whilst well intentioned in some cases, may actually be harmful to disadvantaged black communities. But that's a point for the ''USA not as messed up as the left are pretending'' thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 15:34:47 GMT
Forget all that.(I am not butt hurt ffs, just pointing out that the tone you take provokes argument rather than informed debate). So your point on Starmer was? The tone and content of that looks to be designed to escalate friction rather than encourage friendly, yet robust debate. Do you want an exchange of views or an argument? As said, Starmer used just the first half of a paragraph from a letter in an attempt to discredit the government, the usual left leaning media were all over it, calling him 'forensic' as always, but what wasn't so widely reported was that the rest of that paragraph was published, and it totally negated the point that Mr Boring was trying to make. I've asked twice if you would like me to find details, you obviously don't read things properly or you would have replied either in the affirmative or negative. So that leaves a question, just how informed can debate be with you when you obviously aren't engaging with simple questions and offers to provide information? That question is supported by the fact that you never did confirm that you had bothered investing a mere 20 minutes watching the video from Mr Riley putting forward the case that USA liberal policies, whilst well intentioned in some cases, may actually be harmful to disadvantaged black communities. But that's a point for the ''USA not as messed up as the left are pretending'' thread. Just quote it with a link, rather than restate your opinion for the umpteenth time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 21:45:31 GMT
The tone and content of that looks to be designed to escalate friction rather than encourage friendly, yet robust debate. Do you want an exchange of views or an argument? As said, Starmer used just the first half of a paragraph from a letter in an attempt to discredit the government, the usual left leaning media were all over it, calling him 'forensic' as always, but what wasn't so widely reported was that the rest of that paragraph was published, and it totally negated the point that Mr Boring was trying to make. I've asked twice if you would like me to find details, you obviously don't read things properly or you would have replied either in the affirmative or negative. So that leaves a question, just how informed can debate be with you when you obviously aren't engaging with simple questions and offers to provide information? That question is supported by the fact that you never did confirm that you had bothered investing a mere 20 minutes watching the video from Mr Riley putting forward the case that USA liberal policies, whilst well intentioned in some cases, may actually be harmful to disadvantaged black communities. But that's a point for the ''USA not as messed up as the left are pretending'' thread. Just quote it with a link, rather than restate your opinion for the umpteenth time. Rude, borderline aggressive, again. What exactly is the matter with you? I asked several times if you wanted details, normal people just say yes please or no thank you. Now, this video from Mr Riley, any comment on the content? I'm beginning to think that you haven't watched it. If you haven't watched that one, from weeks ago, despite multiple reminders, why should I bother locating and posting more information for you? Deal with the Riley thing first, then we'll come back to Starmer. But I'm not holding my breath, you replied on a different thread in a way that made it obvious that you didn't watch a short video that I provided for you clarifying the role of the Police in raiding places where people are forced into slave labour / held against their will. So even if I do provide this detail relating to Starmer getting something horribly wrong, you probably wouldn't even bother looking at it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 7:46:35 GMT
I’ve read a bundle, but the ones that have stood out so far are: “The Russians among us” (about Russian spy policy since the fall of the iron curtain) “From Russia with blood” about Russian assassinations on foreign soil and “Sandworm” which is specifically about Russian hacking operations and strategy. The hacking stuff in particular seems to have gone under the radar apart from the high profile stuff related to the US election. One thread runs through all these sources: that there has been a clear escalation in Russian provocation of the west since 2010 Sounds like an interesting read, a fascinating subject. I try to separate the propaganda in stuff like that these days, but it's not easy! Some great podcasts that have a go at it. Ultimately it seems there is no traditional good or bad side, just a race by the powerful to keep hold of their power by any means necessary. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Jul 19, 2020 8:40:05 GMT
I’ve read a bundle, but the ones that have stood out so far are: “The Russians among us” (about Russian spy policy since the fall of the iron curtain) “From Russia with blood” about Russian assassinations on foreign soil and “Sandworm” which is specifically about Russian hacking operations and strategy. The hacking stuff in particular seems to have gone under the radar apart from the high profile stuff related to the US election. One thread runs through all these sources: that there has been a clear escalation in Russian provocation of the west since 2010 Sounds like an interesting read, a fascinating subject. I try to separate the propaganda in stuff like that these days, but it's not easy! Some great podcasts that have a go at it. Ultimately it seems there is no traditional good or bad side, just a race by the powerful to keep hold of their power by any means necessary. Maybe, but I'd stay wary of drawing moral equivalence in their methods. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 6:54:01 GMT
So... The governments 'Eat out to help out' plan to 'energise' and save the economy is happening the same time as an obesity campaign.
Honestly, just when you think gov couldn't be anymore stupid than they already are.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 8:32:16 GMT
So... The governments 'Eat out to help out' plan to 'energise' and save the economy is happening the same time as an obesity campaign. Honestly, just when you think gov couldn't be anymore stupid than they already are. I think you will find, true to the "populist"playbook, it's known as making it up as you go along. Cue arm waiving, bluster, schoolboy jokes and appealing to the "great British public" |
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Post by trevorgas on Jul 27, 2020 8:44:28 GMT
So... The governments 'Eat out to help out' plan to 'energise' and save the economy is happening the same time as an obesity campaign. Honestly, just when you think gov couldn't be anymore stupid than they already are. I think you will find, true to the "populist"playbook, it's known as making it up as you go along. Cue arm waiving, bluster, schoolboy jokes and appealing to the "great British public" I don't see anything wrong with the two messages it's about eating healthily not about not eating at all doh!!. |
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Post by scoobydoogas on Jul 27, 2020 8:54:56 GMT
I think you will find, true to the "populist"playbook, it's known as making it up as you go along. Cue arm waiving, bluster, schoolboy jokes and appealing to the "great British public" I don't see anything wrong with the two messages it's about eating healthily not about not eating at all doh!!. Quite. It doesn't matter what the Govt say or do. The usual suspects on here will just say it's wrong. I haven't seen anywhere where the Govt have told people to go out and stuff themselves silly and by the way here's a tenner to help you get fat. It's about asking people to make an attempt to return to their normal eating out habits in order to restart that part of the economy and prevent businesses ceasing to trade and people losing their jobs. As for obesity, do people really believe that overweight people have been sittingvat home waiting for someone to offer them a tenner before they start stuffing their face again? The mind boggles at just how much people want to complain about everything. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 9:26:47 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with the two messages it's about eating healthily not about not eating at all doh!!. Quite. It doesn't matter what the Govt say or do. The usual suspects on here will just say it's wrong. I haven't seen anywhere where the Govt have told people to go out and stuff themselves silly and by the way here's a tenner to help you get fat. It's about asking people to make an attempt to return to their normal eating out habits in order to restart that part of the economy and prevent businesses ceasing to trade and people losing their jobs. As for obesity, do people really believe that overweight people have been sittingvat home waiting for someone to offer them a tenner before they start stuffing their face again? The mind boggles at just how much people want to complain about everything. I'm with the looney left on this one. The message should have been; Stay in, don't eat anything, and we are charging you £10. Back in 1997 when Blair was first elected he was on TV, looking young and energised with a cheering crowd behind him, one of my children said to me, 'When I grow up I'm going to vote Labour'. I replied, 'You can't do both'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 9:43:48 GMT
I think you will find, true to the "populist"playbook, it's known as making it up as you go along. Cue arm waiving, bluster, schoolboy jokes and appealing to the "great British public" I don't see anything wrong with the two messages it's about eating healthily not about not eating at all doh!!. The issue is surely where do people, in the main, "eat out"? Macdonalds, Burger King, KFC, Pizza joints? Pub lunches (Brakes Bros frozen products), greasy spoons, Indian or Chinese? Fish & Chips? None of that can be considered "healthy" in terms of their chemical content. You can eat out healthily,but it costs. So I will contend that the Government has now sent out mixed messages, in a desperate attempt to get people back to spending per normal they are actively incentivising people with a tenner to eat sh*t, whilst at the same time telling you it makes you obese and increases your morbidity factor by 40% if you happen to catch Covid19. It's bollox. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 10:23:01 GMT
How utterly pathetic.
So, what's being advocated here is the government dictating what people eat, the removal of personal choice and liberty.
I knew that we had some crazed lefties amongst us but this takes it to a new level.
All we need now is for someone who, during a national alcohol consumption epidemic, stands behind a bar selling punters poison that causes liver disease, pancreatitis, certain cancers, immune system dysfunction, brain damage, heart disease, and that's before we even start on issues such as law and order, road traffic deaths, domestic violence, the cost to the NHS, and that's just off the top of my head, to join in and start criticising the £10 scheme on health issues and we would have a full house of nut cases on our hands.
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Post by scoobydoogas on Jul 27, 2020 10:40:51 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with the two messages it's about eating healthily not about not eating at all doh!!. The issue is surely where do people, in the main, "eat out"? Macdonalds, Burger King, KFC, Pizza joints? Pub lunches (Brakes Bros frozen products), greasy spoons, Indian or Chinese? Fish & Chips? None of that can be considered "healthy" in terms of their chemical content. You can eat out healthily,but it costs. So I will contend that the Government has now sent out mixed messages, in a desperate attempt to get people back to spending per normal they are actively incentivising people with a tenner to eat sh*t, whilst at the same time telling you it makes you obese and increases your morbidity factor by 40% if you happen to catch Covid19. It's bollox. The problem though Oldie is that an incentive of a tenner is not going to stop people eating sh**. Those people will eat the same amount of sh** but have a tenner still in their pocket when they leave. This isn't about asking people to eat healthily - it's about restarting the economy in that sector. McDonalds et al have been open for a while now but I believe (you'll correct me if I'm wrong) the offer only applies during August and then only Mon to Wed when traditionally that was the quietest time for pub lunches, Harvester, restaurants, carverys and places like that. As soon as the fast food places reopened there were queues at them all. It was almost immediate that police cars and ambulance cars were in the queue at McDonalds in my area. Aren't NHS staff meant to promote healthy eating? And what were the unhealthy people eating before these places reopened? Probably those disgusting Rustler burgers in plastic wrappers that they sell in supermarkets. The ones with the use by dates well into the future which should be an immediate clue as to the sh** that must be in them. The point I'm making is that the offer of 50% off (up to a tenner) won't change anyone's lifestyle or eating habits but it might help the economy. I don't see why there has to be an issue with it coinciding with obesity week or whatever it is. You can still get your discount and eat something healthy.
As an example, a place that myself and Mrs Scoobydoo used to frequent before lockdown has emailed me with an offer of 30% off of all main meals for any day of the week. Is that wrong as well as I may go and stuff myself with pies and chips or is it acceptable as they are trying to attract customers in order to remain in business and save jobs? I guess opinions will differ.
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Post by William Wilson on Jul 27, 2020 10:55:44 GMT
All we need now is for someone who, during a national alcohol consumption epidemic, stands behind a bar selling punters poison that causes liver disease, pancreatitis, certain cancers, immune system dysfunction, brain damage, heart disease, and that's before we even start on issues such as law and order, road traffic deaths, domestic violence, the cost to the NHS, and that's just off the top of my head, to join in and start criticising the £10 scheme on health issues and we would have a full house of nut cases on our hands. You`ve gone too far this time, Mr Jung. Nobody on here would be hypocritical enough to criticize the government`s food initiative, while doing such a thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 11:01:11 GMT
The issue is surely where do people, in the main, "eat out"? Macdonalds, Burger King, KFC, Pizza joints? Pub lunches (Brakes Bros frozen products), greasy spoons, Indian or Chinese? Fish & Chips? None of that can be considered "healthy" in terms of their chemical content. You can eat out healthily,but it costs. So I will contend that the Government has now sent out mixed messages, in a desperate attempt to get people back to spending per normal they are actively incentivising people with a tenner to eat sh*t, whilst at the same time telling you it makes you obese and increases your morbidity factor by 40% if you happen to catch Covid19. It's bollox. The problem though Oldie is that an incentive of a tenner is not going to stop people eating sh**. Those people will eat the same amount of sh** but have a tenner still in their pocket when they leave. This isn't about asking people to eat healthily - it's about restarting the economy in that sector. McDonalds et al have been open for a while now but I believe (you'll correct me if I'm wrong) the offer only applies during August and then only Mon to Wed when traditionally that was the quietest time for pub lunches, Harvester, restaurants, carverys and places like that. As soon as the fast food places reopened there were queues at them all. It was almost immediate that police cars and ambulance cars were in the queue at McDonalds in my area. Aren't NHS staff meant to promote healthy eating? And what were the unhealthy people eating before these places reopened? Probably those disgusting Rustler burgers in plastic wrappers that they sell in supermarkets. The ones with the use by dates well into the future which should be an immediate clue as to the sh** that must be in them. The point I'm making is that the offer of 50% off (up to a tenner) won't change anyone's lifestyle or eating habits but it might help the economy. I don't see why there has to be an issue with it coinciding with obesity week or whatever it is. You can still get your discount and eat something healthy.
As an example, a place that myself and Mrs Scoobydoo used to frequent before lockdown has emailed me with an offer of 30% off of all main meals for any day of the week. Is that wrong as well as I may go and stuff myself with pies and chips or is it acceptable as they are trying to attract customers in order to remain in business and save jobs? I guess opinions will differ.
That's right Scooby. The critique on this is not about people's eating habits per se. It's about the conflicting messages being sent out by the Government. A couple of weeks ago they say get back out there and eat out, offering a tenner from taxpayers money, (with the conditions you rightly point out) and then on the weekend, just a couple of weeks later, say we have to all lose weight. Making it up week by week. I get and agree with you about the economic impact. But I do wonder if people might, at this point, reflect on their lifestyles and spending habits. At the same time it would be nice if the Government might grow up and triangulate eating habits, the economy and the costs to our health service (and therefore taxes) so that we may make properly informed decisions. It's doesn't have to be either or, all or nothing. With this lot? Pigs might fly. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 11:29:43 GMT
Is it a secret that McDonalds isn't good for you?
People can decide this stuff for themselves.
At least the £10 can't be spent on alcohol, you know, the stuff that turns our City centres into riot zones every single Friday and Saturday night.
Again, what is this rubbish about pointing a finger at any particular government. Did KFC not exist between 1997 and 2010, was monosodium glutamate banned under Labour? It's such childish nonsense.
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