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Post by GasAttacK on Sept 19, 2020 17:38:53 GMT
Our midfield has to be one of the worst I've seen in 40 years following Rovers. Maybe not technically but where is the energy and desire. Nobody in midfield can tackle, nobody can drive forward with the ball, nobody shows any strength and nobody shows any passion. Westbrooke was a 1/10 today and Grant not much better. I felt like getting them by the scruff of the neck and shouting put some f*cking effort in. Give me Ogogo, O.Clarke and Sercombe any day. I would play Hargreaves and Ogogo in midfield next week, at least they'll put a shift in and their passing and ball retention couldn't be any worse.
Midfield is without question our biggest problem in my opinion and if it's not addressed we'll be down by Christmas.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 19, 2020 17:42:11 GMT
Bbbbbut.....
Ollie Clarke was sh** according to most on here.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 19, 2020 17:43:02 GMT
It's more effective than our attack. But BG favours midfield over attack...
What our mid hasn't done since December, is play coherently as a team.
We've gone from playing to each individual's strengths to individually exposing their weaknesses.
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Midfield
Sept 19, 2020 17:44:57 GMT
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 19, 2020 17:44:57 GMT
Even in the halcyon days under GC people were berating that midfield we did have. Do we miss OC? Probably not. Sercombe I regret seeing move on but yeah he wasn’t the player he was in the early days come the end. AO I don’t see Grant as being an improvement on, and would have him back in a heartbeat just to instill some passion back into the club. But I do feel Westbrooke shows some promise and will be one of our better players by the seasons end be it under Ben or a.n.other
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Post by axegas on Sept 19, 2020 17:48:24 GMT
It's weird because in the last couple of games our midfield had been alright, perhaps they failed to stamp their authority on the game but both Westbrooke and Grant had looked good on the ball and willing to get their heads up and get us moving up the pitch. In particular, Westbrooke looked like a player we've missed over the last couple of seasons with his range of passing.
Today though, I would have to agree, both Grant and Westbrooke along with Upson had very poor games and looked almost non-existent at times. I think part of the problem was that they weren't getting the ball from the centre backs who preferred to hoof the ball long to the strikers or play it to the fullbacks. I also think we're lacking some bit in the midfield, someone who can help to win the ball back and have a lot of energy, Ogogo would be ideal for that role, really hope Garner does a U turn on his exclusion from the squad as I think he'll add a lot to the midfield. Maybe a creative CAM who could give the strikers a bit more service could help us going forward too.
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Post by shaggy on Sept 19, 2020 17:48:56 GMT
Garner needs to make peace with Ogogo and offer him a contract extension. Unless I've missed something and he's already found another club.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Sept 19, 2020 17:54:27 GMT
I always rated Ollie Clarke.
In the games I've seen Grant he looks water poor to me.
Ogogo must wonder what hes done wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 17:55:18 GMT
It's weird because in the last couple of games our midfield had been alright, perhaps they failed to stamp their authority on the game but both Westbrooke and Grant had looked good on the ball and willing to get their heads up and get us moving up the pitch. In particular, Westbrooke looked like a player we've missed over the last couple of seasons with his range of passing. Today though, I would have to agree, both Grant and Westbrooke along with Upson had very poor games and looked almost non-existent at times. I think part of the problem was that they weren't getting the ball from the centre backs who preferred to hoof the ball long to the strikers or play it to the fullbacks. I also think we're lacking some bit in the midfield, someone who can help to win the ball back and have a lot of energy, Ogogo would be ideal for that role, really hope Garner does a U turn on his exclusion from the squad as I think he'll add a lot to the midfield. Maybe a creative CAM who could give the strikers a bit more service could help us going forward too. Westbrooke was playing a different role today. His performance was Garners fault imo.
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Post by socrates on Sept 19, 2020 19:43:39 GMT
Our midfield has to be one of the worst I've seen in 40 years following Rovers. Maybe not technically but where is the energy and desire. Nobody in midfield can tackle, nobody can drive forward with the ball, nobody shows any strength and nobody shows any passion. Westbrooke was a 1/10 today and Grant not much better. I felt like getting them by the scruff of the neck and shouting put some f*cking effort in. Give me Ogogo, O.Clarke and Sercombe any day. I would play Hargreaves and Ogogo in midfield next week, at least they'll put a shift in and their passing and ball retention couldn't be any worse.
Midfield is without question our biggest problem in my opinion and if it's not addressed we'll be down by Christmas.
There’s no balance with Westbrooke , grant and upson or two of the three In there that’s for sure. They’re all slow and none of them have got any fight / ball winning attributes. Garners seems to have absolutely no idea about how to build a side with players in positions that compliment the players around them to create a unit that works for each other with or without the ball.
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Midfield
Sept 19, 2020 19:56:04 GMT
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Post by socrates on Sept 19, 2020 19:56:04 GMT
Hargreaves in central midfield would give us legs to get around the pitch his movement is great and Ogogo needs to come back in to midfield , I thought Grant was supposed to be his replacement but he’s hardly had a look in in any of his games so far and looks far from being a tough midfield battler to break things up against good sides. Having said that with this “ manager” I can’t see us doing that well regardless of the starting 11.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 19, 2020 20:14:41 GMT
Bbbbbut..... Ollie Clarke was sh** according to most on here. He was.
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Midfield
Sept 19, 2020 21:03:17 GMT
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Post by wsmjohn on Sept 19, 2020 21:03:17 GMT
None today!
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Post by Russgas on Sept 19, 2020 21:07:25 GMT
The midfield was completely by passed today by long balls out of defence to a solitary striker.
Shocking tactics really especially at home,there was no pressing from our midfield, if anything it was stand off,if BG chooses to play that way he needs to play with two strikers up top and allow our midfield the chance to get a foothold.
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Post by GasAttacK on Sept 19, 2020 22:01:38 GMT
I've watched all the pre season games as well as our opening fixtures and I don't think Westbrooke or Grant have had one good game. Odd little moments maybe but that's it.
At this stage I can't see what either offer.
We're second to every lose ball because there's a worrying lack of pace. We lose every 50/50 because none of them can tackle or have any strength to hold off an opponent. We lose all the aerial battles and our attacks are so slow because we don't have anyone that can drive forward with the ball and quickly turn defence into attack. Most worrying of all is that there seems to be a lack of effort. There was no energy or desire shown from any of our midfielders today.
Nobody had a great game today but we lost the game in midfield. All they ever did was lose possession or go backwards and sideways often putting our defenders under pressure and forcing them to go long.
If we don't sort the problems in midfield it doesn't matter who we have up front or how well we defend, every game will follow the same pattern and we will go down.
As I said in my OP I'd start with Hargreaves and Ogogo next week if we can't sign the quality box to box midfielder we're crying out for.
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Midfield
Sept 19, 2020 22:03:41 GMT
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Sept 19, 2020 22:03:41 GMT
I've watched all the pre season games as well as our opening fixtures and I don't think Westbrooke or Grant have had one good game. Odd little moments maybe but that's it. At this stage I can't see what either offer. We're second to every lose ball because there's a worrying lack of pace. We lose every 50/50 because none of them can tackle or have any strength to hold off an opponent. We lose all the aerial battles and our attacks are so slow because we don't have anyone that can drive forward with the ball and quickly turn defence into attack. Most worrying of all is that there seems to be a lack of effort. There was no energy or desire shown from any of our midfielders today. Nobody had a great game today but we lost the game in midfield. All they ever did was lose possession or go backwards and sideways often putting our defenders under pressure and forcing them to go long. If we don't sort the problems in midfield it doesn't matter who we have up front or how well we defend, every game will follow the same pattern and we will go down. As I said in my OP I'd start with Hargreaves and Ogogo next week if we can't sign the quality box to box midfielder we're crying out for. Westbrooke is quality. I just think sometimes you cna get carried awya with how bad the team is and think nobody looks great. With a better manager, better tactics and better players around him. Westbrooke would shine.
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Post by thegasareback on Sept 19, 2020 22:19:01 GMT
Like Eric said. We played Westbrooke hopelessly out of position today. If we had JCH up top, or even Jonah, we could’ve got the midfield a lot more involved. 95% of the times it went up to Hanlon it didn’t stick and there was no platform to play off.
My concern was the space they had in wide areas on the counter, and the lack of action BG took to counteract this.
Yes the own goal was unlucky but it was coming regardless of how it went in.
At least with DC and GC everyone was crystal clear on what their jobs were. I didn’t quite get that feeling today.
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Post by Gassy on Sept 19, 2020 22:55:45 GMT
I actually don't blame the midfield at all, from what I saw today. It was purely down to the shocking tactics/defence IMO.
Kilgour's distribution was absolutely horrific, Harries is just a complete waste of space and Leahy's balls forward were frankly atrocious. Then you have to consider poor Hanlan is working his socks off completely by himself with no help at all, I wonder what the midfield were supposed to do?
There is certainly a player in Westbrooke, he just needs the right manager to actually play him right. Grant I'm not too impressed by, I'd rather have Ogogo from what I've seen so far tbh.
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Post by GasAttacK on Sept 20, 2020 10:10:17 GMT
I actually don't blame the midfield at all, from what I saw today. It was purely down to the shocking tactics/defence IMO. Kilgour's distribution was absolutely horrific, Harries is just a complete waste of space and Leahy's balls forward were frankly atrocious. Then you have to consider poor Hanlan is working his socks off completely by himself with no help at all, I wonder what the midfield were supposed to do? There is certainly a player in Westbrooke, he just needs the right manager to actually play him right. Grant I'm not too impressed by, I'd rather have Ogogo from what I've seen so far tbh. We actually defended okay on the whole considering the midfield offer no protection whatsoever. Yes, poor OG and Kilgour was beat too easily for the second but if our midfield get overrun eventually the defence will crack.
Defenders are never going to be the best footballers on the pitch and their distribution does let them down at times but our midfielders never make themselves available for a pass. When they do get possession they just pass the buck by giving it back to the defence or kepper.
I fail to see what Westbrooke or Grant offer. I haven't seen one creative pass, one shot on goal, one forward run with the ball, one decent tackle or 50/50 battle won. So far they offer nothing going forward and no protection to the defence.
I don't think we can carry both those players in the same team and expect to win many matches. Maybe one or the other would play better if alongside someone like Josh Sheehan who is an energetic midfielder who can tackle and run with the ball.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2020 10:34:02 GMT
One of the issues yesterday was BG stuck to his favoured 3-4-2-1 formation but then played 3 CM's so Westbrooke appeared to be playing in the right wing/forward role even though he has no pace, JML had another poor game, probably not helped by Westbrooke being ineffective on the other wing, so it was basically Hanlon on his own upfront then a big gap to the midfield.
I can't understand why BG didn't just do a straight swap with Hargreaves for Nicholson or if he wanted to bring in Upson then go to a diamond shape, and put JML or Hargreaves at the top of the diamond in a free role behind Hanlon.
Although it seems we've still got the same old problem with had since we've been back in L2, our CM's simply aren't good just to play just a central midfield pairing. It always seemed a big ask to expect Grant to step up to L1 level and hit the ground running.
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Post by Gassy on Sept 20, 2020 10:35:52 GMT
I actually don't blame the midfield at all, from what I saw today. It was purely down to the shocking tactics/defence IMO. Kilgour's distribution was absolutely horrific, Harries is just a complete waste of space and Leahy's balls forward were frankly atrocious. Then you have to consider poor Hanlan is working his socks off completely by himself with no help at all, I wonder what the midfield were supposed to do? There is certainly a player in Westbrooke, he just needs the right manager to actually play him right. Grant I'm not too impressed by, I'd rather have Ogogo from what I've seen so far tbh. We actually defended okay on the whole considering the midfield offer no protection whatsoever. Yes, poor OG and Kilgour was beat too easily for the second but if our midfield get overrun eventually the defence will crack.
Defenders are never going to be the best footballers on the pitch and their distribution does let them down at times but our midfielders never make themselves available for a pass. When they do get possession they just pass the buck by giving it back to the defence or kepper.
I fail to see what Westbrooke or Grant offer. I haven't seen one creative pass, one shot on goal, one forward run with the ball, one decent tackle or 50/50 battle won. So far they offer nothing going forward and no protection to the defence.
I don't think we can carry both those players in the same team and expect to win many matches. Maybe one or the other would play better if alongside someone like Josh Sheehan who is an energetic midfielder who can tackle and run with the ball.
I'm not expecting world beating passes, but I expect a professional footballer (be it defender or not) to be able to do one of the following: 1. Pass it to the player 6 feet away from him, unmarked 2. If lumping it forward 30 years, not for it to roll out for a goal kick every time. I disagree about Westbrooke, the bloke is everywhere and is constantly trying to create something. He's always trying to pick up the ball, tap it to a player and make a run to create space. Problem is he gives it to Upson or Grant who just lump it forward or backwards, as you say.
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