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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:39:32 GMT
Do you not think Hanlon going off who was excellent, Leahy going off who was excellent not effect the 2nd half against Sunderland? We were expecting a backs to the wall game there - or certainly I was and was pleasantly surprised by our first half.... I’ve said give BG until end of November in my OP? I may be giving too much benefit of doubt and games coming up will be a better gauge but I personally don’t think we are going to struggle as much as you say - but willing to be told I told you so if that isn’t the case. I still have faith and belief in what we are trying to do ..... at the moment We could be all but down if we give him until the end of November. It's going to take a huge effort to not get relegated if we've only got 5-7 points by then. Maybe but I personally don’t think we’ll be in that position
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Post by LJG on Sept 20, 2020 9:42:50 GMT
Can you explain why we're not expected to win against league contenders? It's the very start of a new season. We've got a newish young manager with his own players. They're two teams we beat last season. From everyone starting with zero points on the board what should we expect? Can you give me a list of the teams we are expected to beat so I know what to feel each game? Why did you watch the games if we're not expected to win? I personally don’t see us as good enough yet to beat the likes of Sunderland or Ipswich who have a vastly more experienced and higher paid, valued team - remember a lot of their players are ex championship and prem players and they have a higher budget etc than us. I think we are a mid table side at present. I watch because I enjoy football and support my team .... and currently the manager We were good enough to beat them last season. Don't you see a problem with that? This is losers talk. Pure and simple. Bumble along the bottom of the league till we go down Rovers. Then do it again in the league below and maybe bounce back once every ten years.
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 20, 2020 9:43:17 GMT
We beat both teams last season. Disciples.who are the teams we need to beat? Fleetwood ?
Expectations are going down faster then Katie price on a stag do.
Only thing flying from Ben's support is a white flag
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Post by androyd on Sept 20, 2020 10:21:40 GMT
Agree with this. I only saw the first half yesterday but while Ipswitch were slick on the ball we were a different side defensively to the cup game. The possession approach was there but broke up under pressure in the final third. I cannot comment on the second half but it is clear we are failing to hold any possession in the middle and will struggle at the top end without some experience - tin hat ready - someone like Tomlin? While we have a knowledgable fanbase the intolerance and negativity is depressing 180 minutes into a new season. The next signing or two are critical but there is nothing to be gained from this level of criticism. The players are with him that is clear.
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Post by GasAttacK on Sept 20, 2020 10:25:04 GMT
There always seem to be an excuse as to why now is not the time to judge BG.
It's gone from 'he's only just taken over', 'family emergency' and 'it's not his squad', to 'players need time to gel', 'it's only 2 games' and 'tough opposition'.
For me he has a maximum of 5 more games.
Doncaster (A) Northampton (H) Oxford (A) - Cup Lincoln (A) Burton (H)
At that point we'll be 9 competitive games into the new season and if we haven't seen a significant improvement in performances and picked up at least 6 more points I think Wael will have little choice but to act.
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Post by TAGas on Sept 20, 2020 10:42:11 GMT
There always seem to be an excuse as to why now is not the time to judge BG. It's gone from 'he's only just taken over', 'family emergency' and 'it's not his squad', to 'players need time to gel', 'it's only 2 games' and 'tough opposition'. For me he has a maximum of 5 more games. Doncaster (A) Northampton (H) Oxford (A) - Cup Lincoln (A) Burton (H) At that point we'll be 9 competitive games into the new season and if we haven't seen a significant improvement in performances and picked up at least 6 more points I think Wael will have little choice but to act. I think there's one win there for BG and that's Burton at home
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Post by fanatical on Sept 20, 2020 10:47:14 GMT
Agree with this. I only saw the first half yesterday but while Ipswitch were slick on the ball we were a different side defensively to the cup game. The possession approach was there but broke up under pressure in the final third. I cannot comment on the second half but it is clear we are failing to hold any possession in the middle and will struggle at the top end without some experience - tin hat ready - someone like Tomlin? While we have a knowledgable fanbase the intolerance and negativity is depressing 180 minutes into a new season. The next signing or two are critical but there is nothing to be gained from this level of criticism. The players are with him that is clear. Is it?
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Post by Goose on Sept 20, 2020 10:47:28 GMT
I think we'll take 7 points out of Northampton, Lincoln and Burton.... Well we should be
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2020 10:52:20 GMT
There always seem to be an excuse as to why now is not the time to judge BG. It's gone from 'he's only just taken over', 'family emergency' and 'it's not his squad', to 'players need time to gel', 'it's only 2 games' and 'tough opposition'. For me he has a maximum of 5 more games. Doncaster (A) Northampton (H) Oxford (A) - Cup Lincoln (A) Burton (H) At that point we'll be 9 competitive games into the new season and if we haven't seen a significant improvement in performances and picked up at least 6 more points I think Wael will have little choice but to act. I think there's one win there for BG and that's Burton at home Northampton & Burton are the key games, we may as well prepare for a defeat at Donny now so we don't have another forum meltdown next weekend, Lincoln seem to have had a great summer, signings wise, so that'll be another tough game. If we pick up another 4 pts that will hopefully keep us out of the bottom 4 and gives BG something to build on with two esier looking away games at Shrewsbury & Accy after those fixtures.
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Post by playtowin on Sept 20, 2020 10:52:26 GMT
It's only a matter of time before tom Nicholls starts scoring he is a good player. Give him a chance ,more time is needed.
It's only a matter of time before ben garners team will start winning they are good players who pass nicely. Give him a chance, more time is needed.
Get rid of Coughlan his football is rubbish it's only a matter of time before he starts losing games. Dont give him a chance it will definitely fail.
A common theme of prophesy that "will" come true. Despite what the actual evidence showed.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2020 10:55:19 GMT
Agree with this. I only saw the first half yesterday but while Ipswitch were slick on the ball we were a different side defensively to the cup game. The possession approach was there but broke up under pressure in the final third. I cannot comment on the second half but it is clear we are failing to hold any possession in the middle and will struggle at the top end without some experience - tin hat ready - someone like Tomlin? While we have a knowledgable fanbase the intolerance and negativity is depressing 180 minutes into a new season. The next signing or two are critical but there is nothing to be gained from this level of criticism. The players are with him that is clear. Is it? Somebody kept Sunderland at bay for 90 mins and Ipswich for 80 mins yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:07:21 GMT
Completely disagree with the op. BG has had more than 2 league games. BG record of 2 is the amount of wins since December. Did we really compete v Ipswich yesterday? Jaak made two brilliant saves (free kick and a shot through crowd of players) plus numerous interjections and Alfie stood up to Sears when it was 1 on 1 in second half. Ipswich yesterday tested our keeper, we hardly tested theirs. Sunderland second half was an avalanche of attack on us. If we've played two tough matches and you give credit for that, reciprocally I presume you give the same debit v AFC Wimbledon, Mk Dons, Stevenage (bottom of whole league last season) and Walsall? How about we use those knives to metaphorically cut something else than slack? His ties with us. Do you work in the media? The “2 wins since December“ whilst factually correct ignores the fact there were about six months without a game. Doesn’t change the fact his record is awful and he gives us little confidence going forward but deliberate phrasing in this way isn’t particularly helpful. It’s a bit like when the media jump on Harry Kane every August - he’ll open a season without a goal in the first couple of games and they’ll say it’s now three months since he last scored !!!
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Sept 20, 2020 11:18:39 GMT
Completely disagree with the op. BG has had more than 2 league games. BG record of 2 is the amount of wins since December. Did we really compete v Ipswich yesterday? Jaak made two brilliant saves (free kick and a shot through crowd of players) plus numerous interjections and Alfie stood up to Sears when it was 1 on 1 in second half. Ipswich yesterday tested our keeper, we hardly tested theirs. Sunderland second half was an avalanche of attack on us. If we've played two tough matches and you give credit for that, reciprocally I presume you give the same debit v AFC Wimbledon, Mk Dons, Stevenage (bottom of whole league last season) and Walsall? How about we use those knives to metaphorically cut something else than slack? His ties with us. Do you work in the media? The “2 wins since December“ whilst factually correct ignores the fact there were about six months without a game. Doesn’t change the fact his record is awful and he gives us little confidence going forward but deliberate phrasing in this way isn’t particularly helpful. It’s a bit like when the media jump on Harry Kane every August - he’ll open a season without a goal in the first couple of games and they’ll say it’s now three months since he last scored !!! And it's over six months since you last made a decent post on a home league match day thread.
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Post by axegas on Sept 20, 2020 11:22:00 GMT
I actually agree with a lot of what the people who are very anti BG say, fact is Garner's record so far has been shocking, in the 4 competitive matches so far this season, we've put up very little fight on the whole and Garner doesn't help himself at all with the post match interviews that he delivers where he either comes up with excuses or tries to claim that we were better than we actually were.
The only thing that doesn't make me want to join that bandwagon, is the fact that we've spent so much time and effort preparing for the season, a new assistant manager was appointed, whole host of players recruited, big changes to the how the club is run off the pitch etc that it almost feels like erasing months of progress by trying to remove the man who is behind a lot of it at the first opportunity.
That's why I'm willing to give BG a little bit more time, getting a point out of two of the hardest fixtures we will have all season isn't totally disastrous as disappointing as we were to watch at times. The games coming up against the likes of Doncaster, Burton, Northampton, Lincoln are where we absolutely should start to be accruing points and getting our season back on track, Garner would have had a bit more time then too, so there really can be no more excuses going forward.
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Post by bluestone on Sept 20, 2020 11:34:10 GMT
Amazing how those place seems to flip flop from week to week.
Last week we gave a battling performance and the team and BG we're generally widely applauded for getting it right and coming away with a well deserved point.
Yesterday before the game most would have taken the same again and if not for an unfortunate error giving an OG away it seemed as if we were very close to doing that.
I'll bet that if we held on for a point yesterday this forum would be a very different place than it is right now. Instead the knives are out again as the OP puts very well.
It's all if's and but's isn't it but it's fine lines that decided the result yesterday. Don't get me wrong I was screaming at the TV with frustration in the the last 30 mins as I watched us make silly errors and poor decisions which meant we kept needlessly giving possession away and handing the advantage back to Ipswich.
I was also yelling at BG to make the changes and when 1-0 down with 12 mins to go for the life of me I've no idea why he didn't just roll the dice, leave JML on, throw on both Daly & Hare and tell the team to just bloody well go for it, as there really was nothing more to lose at that point!
That said, I have to keep reminding myself that we do have a young squad and whether we like it or not a rookie manager that will make and hopefully learn from their mistakes.
It's clear that both Sunderland and Ipswich have far superior teams to us and expecting us to have put them to the sword in these first 2 fixtures is really living in cloud cuckoo land. Yes, I know we beat them both last season but this season's not done yet and we still have an opportunity to get some points when we play them again later in the season.
In my view this squad has a lot of potential, is BG the man to get them to them realise it? I don't know but patience is needed as imo BG ain't goin nowhere anytime soon so we may as well just suck it up and keep lending our support to both the manager and the team.
UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:41:55 GMT
Do you work in the media? The “2 wins since December“ whilst factually correct ignores the fact there were about six months without a game. Doesn’t change the fact his record is awful and he gives us little confidence going forward but deliberate phrasing in this way isn’t particularly helpful. It’s a bit like when the media jump on Harry Kane every August - he’ll open a season without a goal in the first couple of games and they’ll say it’s now three months since he last scored !!! And it's over six months since you last made a decent post on a home league match day thread. 😂
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Post by rovers5charlton5 on Sept 20, 2020 11:52:42 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then? We were absolutely hammered 1-1. We barely got out of own half after the break. How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner? Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count. Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either. We were playing a very good and fancied team in Sunderland, who only got into the game once we lost our hold up player in Hamlan up front. Doom and gloom after 2 games, are you having a laugh!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 12:09:07 GMT
I think you are right that they are 2 game we probably were favourites to lose, but I hate the mentality that it is fine if we did lose both games because it is expected. Sunderland, Ipswich are still just league 1 clubs like us. With this mentality when will we ever be anything more than mid table side. Having watched both games we do not at all take the games to the opposition, yesterday we defended at home for 90 minutes. The point away to Sunderland, was a very good point and understand playing a more defensive game. At home however, I can accept losing a game but at least play like we are going to have a go, be attacking, be aggressive, get forward, create some chances and maybe get a few shots on target..we are so pedestrian and we give teams far too much respect. BG has to get this team playing soon. Agree with most of that. Nobody wants to see us lose and most of us enter a new season with some degree of optimism and excitement. When the fixture list came out I did worry about how many points we would get after the first three games and it is then easy to get stuck in a rut. My worry is about the playing style, specifically the formation and the seemingly stubbornness of the manager in sticking with it. The performances have been poor. Defensively there are some good signs, the team are playing for him imo and throwing themselves in to blocks and challenges. It is the attacking limitations his formation causes that is of great concern, to dominate and win games we need to take control of the midfield, playing two against most teams who have three is doomed to failure. The players we have are good enough to do well in this division but they are being set up to fail by the manager. Whilst most fans would expect us to ultimately end up lower in the table than the likes of Sunderland and Ipswich we should still be able to give them a game. The second half of both games looked more like a league two side versus championship sides in an FA cup tie.
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Post by cockergas on Sept 20, 2020 12:10:45 GMT
For 75 minutes yesterday there was very little to separate the 2 teams. Ipswich has the better quality and it was telling in the end but it was fine margins, very fine. It actually took a fluke of an own goal to break the deadlock, even the last goal had an element of luck due to Upsons slip.
You do tend to find in all sports that the better teams get that bit of luck such as yesterday and even a decisive refereeing decision go there way. Yes they were far better in the final 15, so maybe we have endurance issues, but up til that point we weren’t as sh** as some on here would make out.
Yes we lacked a bit in the final third but if Hanlon had taken that early chance , or we had got a touch on one of Westbrookes deliveries, who knows what we would be debating on here today., and yes I think we were all crying out for a change in formation/plan B, But we forget Halnon has been in the door for about 5 minutes, the majority of this team are new to each other indeed this team Is only just starting out on it’s journey. We need to have more patience.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Sept 20, 2020 12:11:42 GMT
What did you see in the Sunderland performance then? We were absolutely hammered 1-1. We barely got out of own half after the break. How many games should we wait before we can judge Garner? Obviously cup games and games against better teams than us don't count. Pretty soon everyone in L1 will be better than us so maybe they wont count either. Do you not think Hanlon going off who was excellent, Leahy going off who was excellent not effect the 2nd half against Sunderland? We were expecting a backs to the wall game there - or certainly I was and was pleasantly surprised by our first half.... I’ve said give BG until end of November in my OP? I may be giving too much benefit of doubt and games coming up will be a better gauge but I personally don’t think we are going to struggle as much as you say - but willing to be told I told you so if that isn’t the case. I still have faith and belief in what we are trying to do ..... at the moment Why November? Surely if the form doesn’t pick up he will be gone before then. If we are on 2 or 3 points, which is what I’m expecting, with no goalscorer, we will already be hoping for miracles.
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