Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 9:48:24 GMT
He gets rinsed every time ...... not sure why he bothers Do I? In your heads maybe, but an 80 seat majority suggests otherwise. Your moped is running low on troll juice. |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 9:55:06 GMT
I believe there is a total of perhaps 600,000 Brits living in Europe. The majority of whom are well-off, probably retired and with the financial wherewithal to support themselves. They went there for the climate and to live in a less crowded environment. For example, France and Spain have about 6 times the land mass Of the UK with considerably less than twice our population.Let’s face it, no Brit would go to Europe to claim benefits, they'd get told to F off. Also, the migration from here has been gradual and managed, they certainly didn’t make their way there en mass, by the plane and coach load.To the tune of 3 million. So you’re not really comparing like for like, are you? Which is is an unfortunate symptom of being a Remainer. Why would Europeans come here to claim benefits? Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe not least because we are a small tax small welfare state country. Statistically European migrants are not only small in number but they are net contributors, they add value to our economy. Brexit might lock them out but we are still going to be left with the migrants from places like Syria and Iraq who are in net deficit, so they harm our economy and they come over in vastly bigger numbers than the Europeans. It’s like trying to stop a burglar who is out on license from re-offending by cutting his tag off. How well I remember the efforts of Cameron to try and get the EU to allow Britain to curtail free movement to this country. One of the reasons he wanted this was because of the ridiculous situation where people could come here from any EU country and immediately claim child benefit for all of their kids back in their home country. Meanwhile, the Child Benefit that my wife and I received, and that was the only Money we received back from our outrageous tax and NI contributions, was taken away, because we all had to pay for the financial disaster 12 years of Labour government had visited on us. The EU in effect told him to F off, on that request and several others. Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe? Then why the hell are all these people scrambling over each other and risking their lives to get here? Looking out of the window this morning, it certainly isn’t for the weather. |
|
|
|
Post by dragonfly on Oct 27, 2020 10:21:47 GMT
Why would Europeans come here to claim benefits? Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe not least because we are a small tax small welfare state country. Statistically European migrants are not only small in number but they are net contributors, they add value to our economy. Brexit might lock them out but we are still going to be left with the migrants from places like Syria and Iraq who are in net deficit, so they harm our economy and they come over in vastly bigger numbers than the Europeans. It’s like trying to stop a burglar who is out on license from re-offending by cutting his tag off. How well I remember the efforts of Cameron to try and get the EU to allow Britain to curtail free movement to this country. One of the reasons he wanted this was because of the ridiculous situation where people could come here from any EU country and immediately claim child benefit for all of their kids back in their home country. Meanwhile, the Child Benefit that my wife and I received, and that was the only Money we received back from our outrageous tax and NI contributions, was taken away, because we all had to pay for the financial disaster 12 years of Labour government had visited on us. The EU in effect told him to F off, on that request and several others. Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe? Then why the hell are all these people scrambling over each other and risking their lives to get here? Looking out of the window this morning, it certainly isn’t for the weather. Penally Barracks Holiday Camp - the Camp with a difference, never mind the weather, When you come to Britain, the holiday's forever. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 10:39:08 GMT
He gets rinsed every time ...... not sure why he bothers Do I? In your heads maybe, but an 80 seat majority suggests otherwise. Robbie Williams sold millions and millions of records in the U.K. does that make him one of the best singers of all time? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 10:49:35 GMT
Why would Europeans come here to claim benefits? Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe not least because we are a small tax small welfare state country. Statistically European migrants are not only small in number but they are net contributors, they add value to our economy. Brexit might lock them out but we are still going to be left with the migrants from places like Syria and Iraq who are in net deficit, so they harm our economy and they come over in vastly bigger numbers than the Europeans. It’s like trying to stop a burglar who is out on license from re-offending by cutting his tag off. How well I remember the efforts of Cameron to try and get the EU to allow Britain to curtail free movement to this country. One of the reasons he wanted this was because of the ridiculous situation where people could come here from any EU country and immediately claim child benefit for all of their kids back in their home country. Meanwhile, the Child Benefit that my wife and I received, and that was the only Money we received back from our outrageous tax and NI contributions, was taken away, because we all had to pay for the financial disaster 12 years of Labour government had visited on us. The EU in effect told him to F off, on that request and several others. Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe? Then why the hell are all these people scrambling over each other and risking their lives to get here? Looking out of the window this morning, it certainly isn’t for the weather. So you blame Labour because the Tories cut your benefits? Even though cutting benefits is what the Tories would do anyway regardless of if there was any money in the pot or not. They’ve just bloody voted against school meals ffs! Christ you are so full of excuses for the Tories it’s unreal. We’ve had a decade of the Tories and yet you STILL blame Toby Blair for all the countries problems. We’ve had almost a decade of austerity after which the debt ROSE to over a trillion for the first time. They’re paying billions to their mates which you refuse to outright condemn and yet what to DO complain about is Labour being responsible for the Tories cutting your child benefit! Honestly, I give up, your inability to blame the Tories for anything makes you so one eyed it’s frankly impossible to have any sort of reasonable objective debate with. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 11:02:32 GMT
Y’know, I can’t remember very much at all the other Tories in this section of the forum EVER speaking out against anything they have done. Any criticism is followed up with a question about something Labour did like it’s a zero sum game and one has to worse rather than both being equally crap in different ways. Nobby was the absolute best- literally everything so far in this pandemic was someone else’s fault.
It reminds me of an astute observation someone on another forum made about how the Tories have actually played a blinder with their “nasty party” image, because it means that no-one expects any better of them. Thus Labour are held to a higher moral standard and we, the British, love to see people fall on their moral sword. The Tories have no moral sword so when they siphon billions to their mates the likes of oldgas shrug and conclude “well that’s what Tories do”. However if Labour were to siphon billions for a broken test and trace system the sun would have the likes of oldgas in a right old frenzy about the sheer corruption of it all and shouting triumphantly about how Labour were not as pure as they make out.
The classic example of this is something I’ve seen a lot lately in recriminations over why people are having doubts over voting this government- they say “well I could never vote for a party with Labour’s anti-semitism problem, so I voted Tory instead”....so you hate prejudice so much that you voted for a party led by Boris bloody Johnson and who have an Islamophobia problem that they promised on live TV to have an enquiry into that was quietly dropped?! As usual Labour held to a higher moral standard because the Tories have no moral standard to which to be held to.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 11:21:47 GMT
How well I remember the efforts of Cameron to try and get the EU to allow Britain to curtail free movement to this country. One of the reasons he wanted this was because of the ridiculous situation where people could come here from any EU country and immediately claim child benefit for all of their kids back in their home country. Meanwhile, the Child Benefit that my wife and I received, and that was the only Money we received back from our outrageous tax and NI contributions, was taken away, because we all had to pay for the financial disaster 12 years of Labour government had visited on us. The EU in effect told him to F off, on that request and several others. Our welfare state is one of the worst in Europe? Then why the hell are all these people scrambling over each other and risking their lives to get here? Looking out of the window this morning, it certainly isn’t for the weather. So you blame Labour because the Tories cut your benefits? Even though cutting benefits is what the Tories would do anyway regardless of if there was any money in the pot or not. They’ve just bloody voted against school meals ffs! Christ you are so full of excuses for the Tories it’s unreal. We’ve had a decade of the Tories and yet you STILL blame Toby Blair for all the countries problems. We’ve had almost a decade of austerity after which the debt ROSE to over a trillion for the first time. They’re paying billions to their mates which you refuse to outright condemn and yet what to DO complain about is Labour being responsible for the Tories cutting your child benefit! Honestly, I give up, your inability to blame the Tories for anything makes you so one eyed it’s frankly impossible to have any sort of reasonable objective debate with. Top ranting, well done. you obviously haven’t read my post and gained what I was trying to convey. To put it simply to avoid inflaming your rage sensor I was attempting to highlight the following: There was increasing unrest in this country at the numbers flooding here from Europe. Who can forget ‘Browngate’, when he had to go crawling to that elderly LABOUR voters house and apologise for calling her a bigoted old woman. That helped do for Labour, good old Gord. There was also increasing unease in the country at how much EU membership was costing, and there was disbelief and outrage when it was discovered we were paying Child Benefit to European nationals kids. Cameron knew he had to do something to try and head off the referendum. He couldn’t count on the Lib Dem’s blocking it because the Tories had unexpectedly won the GE outright. He went on an EU tour, begging for some concessions that he could present as a victory so he could get a Remain vote through. The EU collectively laughed in his face, the British PM, and sent him home with his tail between his legs. What a national humiliation. The Tories had to introduce austerity because Labour had bankrupted us. We know this because a Labour Treasury official left a letter for his successor telling him so. I accept that savings need to be made, but those benefits would still have been paid to kids not even living here. And there’s nothing Cameron could do about it, he couldn’t stop the benefit payments to these EU nationals, because the EU wouldn’t let Him! Just let that sink in for a minute. You rant on that despite Austerity the debt got larger, how big would it have been if Labour had won under Brown then Milliband, then Corbyn? Remember- Labour had already admitted they had spent all the money, how big would borrowing have been under them? Thankfully we’ll never know, because the British had the good sense to kick them out then keep them out. Finally, I’ve no doubt the track and trace could have been handled better. But look who would have been in charge if Boris had t won. That alone should send shivers down your back and made it difficult to get out of bed in the morning. I have a direct question for you. Do you think a Corbyn government would have handled Covid and Brexit better if they'd won? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 12:01:40 GMT
See there you go again “it could have been handled better but...”
You minimise and deflect for the Tories but you maximise for Labour. I wish you would just hold the Tories to the same standard as Labour. You criticise Labour for wasting money yet you look the other way when billions are spent on *nothing*. And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Try opening both eyes mate and hold both parties to the *same* standards.
Unlike you with the Tories I’ve got no problem holding Blair to account for the crap that he did. Child benefit for migrants with children abroad is a ridiculous policy and I’ve no time for that at all. What I will say though, is for all the money that was lost on that exercise do you think it adds up to billions like the failed test and trace? You’re acting like you’ve just dropped a bottle of vintage 1700s wine and a bottle of milk and you’re more angry that you’ve dropped the milk. It’s ridiculous.
And I’ve answered your question about an imaginary Labour government above, so now who is the one who is not reading replies?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 12:13:14 GMT
See there you go again “it could have been handled better but...” You minimise and deflect for the Tories but you maximise for Labour. I wish you would just hold the Tories to the same standard as Labour. You criticise Labour for wasting money yet you look the other way when billions are spent on *nothing*. And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Try opening both eyes mate and hold both parties to the *same* standards. Unlike you with the Tories I’ve got no problem holding Blair to account for the crap that he did. Child benefit for migrants with children abroad is a ridiculous policy and I’ve no time for that at all. What I will say though, is for all the money that was lost on that exercise do you think it adds up to billions like the failed test and trace? You’re acting like you’ve just dropped a bottle of vintage 1700s wine and a bottle of milk and you’re more angry that you’ve dropped the milk. It’s ridiculous. And I’ve answered your question about an imaginary Labour government above, so now who is the one who is not reading replies? Is it really worth engaging with this guy? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 12:24:17 GMT
See there you go again “it could have been handled better but...” You minimise and deflect for the Tories but you maximise for Labour. I wish you would just hold the Tories to the same standard as Labour. You criticise Labour for wasting money yet you look the other way when billions are spent on *nothing*. And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Try opening both eyes mate and hold both parties to the *same* standards. Unlike you with the Tories I’ve got no problem holding Blair to account for the crap that he did. Child benefit for migrants with children abroad is a ridiculous policy and I’ve no time for that at all. What I will say though, is for all the money that was lost on that exercise do you think it adds up to billions like the failed test and trace? You’re acting like you’ve just dropped a bottle of vintage 1700s wine and a bottle of milk and you’re more angry that you’ve dropped the milk. It’s ridiculous. And I’ve answered your question about an imaginary Labour government above, so now who is the one who is not reading replies? Is it really worth engaging with this guy? I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 12:27:17 GMT
Is it really worth engaging with this guy? I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. As long as I'm ok and can blame someone else. Pretty much on their coat of arms isn't it? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 12:50:00 GMT
I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. As long as I'm ok and can blame someone else. Pretty much on their coat of arms isn't it? Pretty much, morals are for idiots...like the Labour Party, obviously. |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 12:52:31 GMT
Is it really worth engaging with this guy? I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. You seem to have all the answers. I don’t pretend to know how it could have been done better, which is what I’ve been trying to say. As you seem to have worked it all out, what would you do? |
|
|
|
Post by gregsy on Oct 27, 2020 12:52:50 GMT
I reckon 'general chat' should be renamed 'general hostilities'....
|
|
|
|
Post by francegas on Oct 27, 2020 12:52:51 GMT
gas365 you crack on with your snide bitter remarks and hatred towards me. Let me just put you right on a few things
You say I have "done alright" well as I have twice had to justify myself to people I am in my position on the back of having cancer! Believe me I would give every penny back I received through critical illness policies to not go through what I did.
You seem to think I'm at retirement age..well far from it. I don't get my occupational pension for another 5 years and state pension for 12 years. My occupational pension is massively reduced as I did 25 years in a 60th scheme so don't think that will be a big pay day.
You say I've probably set my kids up for life. Actually I don't have children because cancer put paid to that.
I can guarantee you our income is less than the vast majority of people who contribute to this thread.
I don't sit back sipping Champagne, can't stand it, far too over rated and snobbish. Far better sparkling wines out there for a fraction of the price.
You say you don't like the attitude of you can do it through hard work. Well I don't like the view the whole world is against me and theres no opportunity for me in life. That seems to be the typical view of labour voters because labour have a record for holding people back and making the UK a benefit dependant state and making people better off not working.
On the housing front I agree there's not many 100% mortages and the ones available are quite specific. Oldie stated it would be insanity to take a 100% mortgage. I disagree. If someone is desperate to buy then why not. I get what he said about negative equity (happened to me) but you only realise the negative equity if you wish to sell.
Anyway what are your thoughts on Boris' "Generation Buy" scheme do you believe that may help you get on the property ladder if or when it is introduced.
In response to Oldie about expats voting and having a say how the UK is run what is so wrong with that. I just highlighted examples of things that affect us and so of course people are going to vote on those issues. Why is that so selfish. Doesn't everyone vote for a party based on their own circumstances and beliefs.
365 on various things you have come out with I actually agree with, I'm not the sort of person who thinks I'm alright Jack f**k everybody else.
I get it's difficult out there but if everybody throws in the towel and just wants to blame the government for their circumstances what hope is there.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 12:53:10 GMT
See there you go again “it could have been handled better but...” You minimise and deflect for the Tories but you maximise for Labour. I wish you would just hold the Tories to the same standard as Labour. You criticise Labour for wasting money yet you look the other way when billions are spent on *nothing*. And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Try opening both eyes mate and hold both parties to the *same* standards. Unlike you with the Tories I’ve got no problem holding Blair to account for the crap that he did. Child benefit for migrants with children abroad is a ridiculous policy and I’ve no time for that at all. What I will say though, is for all the money that was lost on that exercise do you think it adds up to billions like the failed test and trace? You’re acting like you’ve just dropped a bottle of vintage 1700s wine and a bottle of milk and you’re more angry that you’ve dropped the milk. It’s ridiculous. And I’ve answered your question about an imaginary Labour government above, so now who is the one who is not reading replies? Is it really worth engaging with this guy? Harriet Harman? |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 12:56:52 GMT
gas365 you crack on with your snide bitter remarks and hatred towards me. Let me just put you right on a few things You say I have "done alright" well as I have twice had to justify myself to people I am in my position on the back of having cancer! Believe me I would give every penny back I received through critical illness policies to not go through what I did. You seem to think I'm at retirement age..well far from it. I don't get my occupational pension for another 5 years and state pension for 12 years. My occupational pension is massively reduced as I did 25 years in a 60th scheme so don't think that will be a big pay day. You say I've probably set my kids up for life. Actually I don't have children because cancer put paid to that. I can guarantee you our income is less than the vast majority of people who contribute to this thread. I don't sit back sipping Champagne, can't stand it, far too over rated and snobbish. Far better sparkling wines out there for a fraction of the price. You say you don't like the attitude of you can do it through hard work. Well I don't like the view the whole world is against me and theres no opportunity for me in life. That seems to be the typical view of labour voters because labour have a record for holding people back and making the UK a benefit dependant state and making people better off not working. On the housing front I agree there's not many 100% mortages and the ones available are quite specific. Oldie stated it would be insanity to take a 100% mortgage. I disagree. If someone is desperate to buy then why not. I get what he said about negative equity (happened to me) but you only realise the negative equity if you wish to sell. Anyway what are your thoughts on Boris' "Generation Buy" scheme do you believe that may help you get on the property ladder if or when it is introduced. In response to Oldie about expats voting and having a say how the UK is run what is so wrong with that. I just highlighted examples of things that affect us and so of course people are going to vote on those issues. Why is that so selfish. Doesn't everyone vote for a party based on their own circumstances and beliefs. 365 on various things you have come out with I actually agree with, I'm not the sort of person who thinks I'm alright Jack f**k everybody else. I get it's difficult out there but if everybody throws in the towel and just wants to blame the government for their circumstances what hope is there. Well done for kicking your cancers arse! I hope you remain in remission for many, many many years. Thats all I want to say in response to your post. |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 12:59:19 GMT
I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. As long as I'm ok and can blame someone else. Pretty much on their coat of arms isn't it? Pretty much the same as on Socialist’s coats of arms then. |
|
|
|
Post by oldgas on Oct 27, 2020 13:00:43 GMT
Is it really worth engaging with this guy? I like trying to understand the thought process and where the lack of empathy comes from, but it really is noticeable how wedded you the ideology they all are. To me, I just can’t understand how they can be so concerned about wastage in the benefits system which, whilst obviously not right, can’t be costing anywhere near as much as the blatant taking from the public purse at the highest level through contract shenanigans. How can they fail to condemn that? The strongest I’ve seen from francegas Eric and the like was oldgas just then with “yeah it’s not good but...” followed by more deflection. It’s staggering how the Tories fail to be held to account. They are like a cult. David Koresh could learn a thing or two from Tory ideology. Lack of empathy for whom? |
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Oct 27, 2020 13:01:09 GMT
As long as I'm ok and can blame someone else. Pretty much on their coat of arms isn't it? Pretty much the same as on Socialist’s coats of arms then. Great reply. |
|
