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Post by toddy1953 on Nov 27, 2020 23:28:42 GMT
Football is littered with ‘potential’. Difference so far between this squad & DC’s L2 promotion squad & first season in L1 is that they actually achieved with us at the level we were at, at that time. To look at former players that achieved with us & judge them on where they are now with other clubs only means they have not fulfilled their potential away from this club, frankly I couldn’t really give a monkeys on what they achieve at any other club, other than if there is anything in it for us as a result. If Tisdale can get this bunch of individuals with potential to play as a team then we might see that potential come to fruition. I really hope he can turn things around this season & the players have success with us.
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Post by toddy1953 on Nov 27, 2020 23:56:44 GMT
Blimey, sometimes this place is more interesting and funny even than the TV on some nights. 1981 has given a great account of what I think about TW as well. I can’t beat that. But it’s obviously Tommy W’s turn to get flak on here now. Can’t blame GC, nor BG, nor DC so let’s look at TW who appeared (imo) to be doing a decent job and seemed to be a kind of stability in terms of recruitment which is far, far better than poor DC had to deal with more or less on his own. Tis has taken over and it’s pretty unfair to criticise him for the disappointing result at Swindon and the far better display at Wigan with an ok result. So let’s blame TW. People seem to need someone to blame so as we can’t blame Tis let’s have a go at TW and perhaps the recruitment wasn’t as good as it should have been. Certainly the squad looks unbalanced and we’ve gone from few central midfielders to a large number. No idea whose fault that is. I think swiss on the other place made a very good observation about an inexperienced manager in BG needing some guidance, who manages the manager. Not sure who that should have been, Now that TW has been made DOF perhaps in the future it would be the role of the DOF, but not TWs role before he became DOF I’d have thought. Recruitment is never going to be all good, perhaps the best we can expect is that the successes outnumber the failures. I’m pleased TW is joining the board as DOF, though I suspect his duties and role won’t be that different. It’s good to see Wael surrounding himself with people who are talented in their particular roles and all pushing in the same direction. UTG! i agree re a blame culture but I don’t think folk are blaming TW as such, obviously some are still blaming DC though. What I don’t understand is that most people feel we have a very unbalanced squad, if we are saying it was all down to BG, then surely, as the Head of Recruitment TW, should have at least set the alarm bells going. Now he is DOF but he did say he had been basically doing it anyway. Unless Wael told Tommy to let Ben have his own way during the last window, then I find it astonishing that TW is not partially responsible for the standard of the recruitment. I really hope Tisdale can get them to gel as a team, but think he will need reinforcements in January.
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Post by olskooltoteender on Nov 28, 2020 1:06:43 GMT
Blimey, sometimes this place is more interesting and funny even than the TV on some nights. 1981 has given a great account of what I think about TW as well. I can’t beat that. But it’s obviously Tommy W’s turn to get flak on here now. Can’t blame GC, nor BG, nor DC so let’s look at TW who appeared (imo) to be doing a decent job and seemed to be a kind of stability in terms of recruitment which is far, far better than poor DC had to deal with more or less on his own. Tis has taken over and it’s pretty unfair to criticise him for the disappointing result at Swindon and the far better display at Wigan with an ok result. So let’s blame TW. People seem to need someone to blame so as we can’t blame Tis let’s have a go at TW and perhaps the recruitment wasn’t as good as it should have been. Certainly the squad looks unbalanced and we’ve gone from few central midfielders to a large number. No idea whose fault that is. I think swiss on the other place made a very good observation about an inexperienced manager in BG needing some guidance, who manages the manager. Not sure who that should have been, Now that TW has been made DOF perhaps in the future it would be the role of the DOF, but not TWs role before he became DOF I’d have thought. Recruitment is never going to be all good, perhaps the best we can expect is that the successes outnumber the failures. I’m pleased TW is joining the board as DOF, though I suspect his duties and role won’t be that different. It’s good to see Wael surrounding himself with people who are talented in their particular roles and all pushing in the same direction. UTG! i agree re a blame culture but I don’t think folk are blaming TW as such, obviously some are still blaming DC though. What I don’t understand is that most people feel we have a very unbalanced squad, if we are saying it was all down to BG, then surely, as the Head of Recruitment TW, should have at least set the alarm bells going. Now he is DOF but he did say he had been basically doing it anyway. Unless Wael told Tommy to let Ben have his own way during the last window, then I find it astonishing that TW is not partially responsible for the standard of the recruitment. I really hope Tisdale can get them to gel as a team, but think he will need reinforcements in January. Not sure what the actual situation is, but for what it’s worth my opinion is that TW went out and got the players Garner said he wanted. So Garner specified the type of player he was after, TW scouted them, spoke to them & their agents, lined them up for Garner and then Garner chose the ones he thought best fitted the squad he was building. So although TW scouted the players, it was ultimately Garner’s decision about who got bought.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 1:09:24 GMT
It needs to be proven that it isn’t. Who would your money be on if DC’s l1 Rovers (with Bodin, Taylor et al) played Garner’s/Tisdale’s Rovers? If the current bunch were lucky Jaakkola would keep the score respectable. Coughlan’s side likewise. I’m not sure how anyone could argue that with wins against just Lincoln, Shrewsbury and Northampton that this squad could adequately compete a against both of our previous managers best teams. Well I look at the players we have now and their potential to what we had 3 years ago so let’s state what we do know. None of the players you mentioned hasn’t cut it in the championship have they? Taylor and Harrison outright failed, Bodin has only stayed at Preston this long because he’s been broken for most of it. Lockyer got relegated in his first season with Charlton and everyone else ended up in league 2 or lower after 2 years in league 1. It’s not as if Snakey and Harrison are hardly the leagues top scorers now either is it....and Browner made a sideways move to Pompey and looks very much like he has hit his ceiling there too. That’s as maybe but whether they made it at championship level is immaterial to who would win between the two teams now. It sounds like you’re saying we’ve got players better than Taylor and Bodin in our current squad. I’ve never heard the like, quite frankly.
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 28, 2020 9:32:41 GMT
Blimey, sometimes this place is more interesting and funny even than the TV on some nights. 1981 has given a great account of what I think about TW as well. I can’t beat that. But it’s obviously Tommy W’s turn to get flak on here now. Can’t blame GC, nor BG, nor DC so let’s look at TW who appeared (imo) to be doing a decent job and seemed to be a kind of stability in terms of recruitment which is far, far better than poor DC had to deal with more or less on his own. Tis has taken over and it’s pretty unfair to criticise him for the disappointing result at Swindon and the far better display at Wigan with an ok result. So let’s blame TW. People seem to need someone to blame so as we can’t blame Tis let’s have a go at TW and perhaps the recruitment wasn’t as good as it should have been. Certainly the squad looks unbalanced and we’ve gone from few central midfielders to a large number. No idea whose fault that is. I think swiss on the other place made a very good observation about an inexperienced manager in BG needing some guidance, who manages the manager. Not sure who that should have been, Now that TW has been made DOF perhaps in the future it would be the role of the DOF, but not TWs role before he became DOF I’d have thought. Recruitment is never going to be all good, perhaps the best we can expect is that the successes outnumber the failures. I’m pleased TW is joining the board as DOF, though I suspect his duties and role won’t be that different. It’s good to see Wael surrounding himself with people who are talented in their particular roles and all pushing in the same direction. UTG! i agree re a blame culture but I don’t think folk are blaming TW as such, obviously some are still blaming DC though. What I don’t understand is that most people feel we have a very unbalanced squad, if we are saying it was all down to BG, then surely, as the Head of Recruitment TW, should have at least set the alarm bells going. Now he is DOF but he did say he had been basically doing it anyway. Unless Wael told Tommy to let Ben have his own way during the last window, then I find it astonishing that TW is not partially responsible for the standard of the recruitment. I really hope Tisdale can get them to gel as a team, but think he will need reinforcements in January. No, I can understand that pov about the unbalanced squad. I say it’s unbalanced because we’ve only 3 forwards. At the start of the season I thought we had more including the youngsters but they seem to be not included in the last days of BG. And I suppose it all came to a head on Tuesday when we had no forwards against the weakest team in the league which added to the frustration. Your point about TW being partially responsible I don’t know because I’ve no idea who is responsible for the final decision over it, is it the manager or is it joint. If the manager then BG paid for it, if joint, then of course TW must take partial responsibility. Either way you are spot on about Tis getting them to gel and getting some reinforcements in January. UTG!
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Post by landrover on Nov 28, 2020 10:28:08 GMT
I’m as ‘old school’ as it gets as I just love to see the passion and the fight in any player. All I see in the modern game is anonymous automatons who don’t bring much to the table. I knew before Garner was even appointed what sort of team he would want to produce. It had mayday written all over it. That said it is so predictable that Tommy Widdrington would want to distance himself from the Garner regime whilst at the same time conveniently laying claim to the Coventry model. As I said earlier TW has come out of the situation far better than he deserves. All we need this season is four teams worse than us. Which there could well be. Tisdale needs to be judge and jury on the comings and goings not our Director of Football. As TW has proved, it will be the manager who will get sacked in the end, not the person in the shadows.
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Post by poorblue on Nov 28, 2020 14:26:23 GMT
Not sure what TW has to do with DOF as Tony Watola has left the club in believe! Seems a lot of TW haters on here understand the role completely different to my understanding. As football in played on the pitch as a team game it is also a team effort off it. The scouting set up has a data pool of over a 1000 players of all ages young and old. This data includes all the good, the bad and the ugly statistics I presume. This data would not I suspect cover the likes of Messi etc or not until we are promoted to the Championship at least. The players included are likely to be one's that are within or just outside the likely parameter that would be affordable and likely to sign. The Scouting set up is complete with that data collated. end off. The Manager then seeks that data when he needs new players even a season in advance as far as his future vision. The scouts simply point out the players within the managers remit from the list. The manager then creates a short list from multiple players then goes to the Board and asks for them to negotiate signing a player working from the top choice on the manager's list. The Board agrees the fee, wages and duration of contract to comply with FA rules and what the finances of the club allow. Thus as stated it's a team effort. A) Quality of the scouting data. B) Quality of the manager's interpretation of the data, who he asks for (and gets), player motivation and tactics. C) Support from the Board. D) Fans turning up and spending their money to get the club they hope for, no fans no club UTG
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Post by wilmslowgas on Nov 28, 2020 16:05:32 GMT
It's rather pointless trying to put the blame on unbalanced recruitment exclusively at the door of TW or BG. In truth, the blame lies with both parties. Just as the credit for any successful signings does.
What is pretty clear to me is that the net result of both their efforts is an unbalanced squad that is currently in the relegation zone. By any standards, few expected the league season to be quite this poor. We are where we are for a number of reasons that include an unbalanced squad, under performing players and inadequate managerial acumen.
Tisdale has the experience to rectify this problem. This season is now all about avoiding the drop and point accumulation is a priority - especially against teams around us in the table.
We will probably stagger through December and then he needs to work some magic in the window. The squad needs realignment which means the acquisition of talent and redeployment of some players surplus to requirements. In sure that TW and PT have already identified potential targets - both incoming and outgoing.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 28, 2020 17:25:49 GMT
Not sure what TW has to do with DOF as Tony Watola has left the club in believe! Seems a lot of TW haters on here understand the role completely different to my understanding. As football in played on the pitch as a team game it is also a team effort off it. The scouting set up has a data pool of over a 1000 players of all ages young and old. This data includes all the good, the bad and the ugly statistics I presume. This data would not I suspect cover the likes of Messi etc or not until we are promoted to the Championship at least. The players included are likely to be one's that are within or just outside the likely parameter that would be affordable and likely to sign. The Scouting set up is complete with that data collated. end off. The Manager then seeks that data when he needs new players even a season in advance as far as his future vision. The scouts simply point out the players within the managers remit from the list. The manager then creates a short list from multiple players then goes to the Board and asks for them to negotiate signing a player working from the top choice on the manager's list. The Board agrees the fee, wages and duration of contract to comply with FA rules and what the finances of the club allow. Thus as stated it's a team effort. A) Quality of the scouting data. B) Quality of the manager's interpretation of the data, who he asks for (and gets), player motivation and tactics. C) Support from the Board. D) Fans turning up and spending their money to get the club they hope for, no fans no club UTG Pretty certain we were told previously that we had a recruitment team who dealt with new players contracts not the Board. All the Board will do is set a budget then leave it to the manager to spend it accordingly. What posters are overlooking when now blaming TW is the fact BG apparently turned down the managers job at Bradford, as they wouldn't give me complete control of first team affairs. I can't see he'd then take the job at Rovers on the basis TW would be deciding which players he could and could not sign.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 17:30:18 GMT
with regards to a culture of blame, defeat in and of itself has to be expected and allowed for however when you’re in the relegation zone and the defending has been as bad as it is and performances have lacked the basic ingredients you would expect of any team eg desire to win then it’s only natural to start questioning how we got to this point and there does seem to be a narrative of good players = Widdrington, bad players = Garner. When you’ve got a head of recruitment and a manager who are supposed to be working together to bring players to the club and coach them into a cohesive whole I really don’t understand how fans can so confidently separate the blame so neatly unless there is a heavy slice of bias involved. “No-one likes Garner so let’s just blame him for all the club’s failings”. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work like that, in reality. Everyone on the footballing side, bar Tisdale, has to take some accountability for where we are. The last two games have made it clear that with this squad Tisdale has to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 17:45:05 GMT
Not sure what TW has to do with DOF as Tony Watola has left the club in believe! Seems a lot of TW haters on here understand the role completely different to my understanding. As football in played on the pitch as a team game it is also a team effort off it. The scouting set up has a data pool of over a 1000 players of all ages young and old. This data includes all the good, the bad and the ugly statistics I presume. This data would not I suspect cover the likes of Messi etc or not until we are promoted to the Championship at least. The players included are likely to be one's that are within or just outside the likely parameter that would be affordable and likely to sign. The Scouting set up is complete with that data collated. end off. The Manager then seeks that data when he needs new players even a season in advance as far as his future vision. The scouts simply point out the players within the managers remit from the list. The manager then creates a short list from multiple players then goes to the Board and asks for them to negotiate signing a player working from the top choice on the manager's list. The Board agrees the fee, wages and duration of contract to comply with FA rules and what the finances of the club allow. Thus as stated it's a team effort. A) Quality of the scouting data. B) Quality of the manager's interpretation of the data, who he asks for (and gets), player motivation and tactics. C) Support from the Board. D) Fans turning up and spending their money to get the club they hope for, no fans no club UTG Pretty certain we were told previously that we had a recruitment team who dealt with new players contracts not the Board. All the Board will do is set a budget then leave it to the manager to spend it accordingly. What posters are overlooking when now blaming TW is the fact BG apparently turned down the managers job at Bradford, as they wouldn't give me complete control of first team affairs. I can't see he'd then take the job at Rovers on the basis TW would be deciding which players he could and could not sign. “Complete control of first team affairs” sounds like being told what players to pick not what players would be signed. Chairmen insisting their favourites are picked is certainly not unheard of in the football world. Think about it logically though, if Garner had quite a lot of autonomy in building the team one wonders why we even need a head of recruitment at all? It sounds to me that, at the very least, Garner was offered a choice of players so he had to work within certain parameters from the get go
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 28, 2020 18:46:57 GMT
Basically none of us have a clue what goes on but usually a HoR identifies suitable players then it's up to the manager to decide if he wants them signed or not. I've never heard of a HoR going out and signing players w/o any input from the manager at lower league level. The imbalance in the squad is solely down to BG hence why he's been sacked.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 19:19:36 GMT
Basically none of us have a clue what goes on but usually a HoR identifies suitable players then it's up to the manager to decide if he wants them signed or not. I've never heard of a HoR going out and signing players w/o any input from the manager at lower league level. The imbalance in the squad is solely down to BG hence why he's been sacked. Then you’d have to wonder why the head of recruitment gave the squad resounding backing after the manager was sacked. Unless he’s lying he thinks it’s the best squad we’ve had since promotion, which should set alarm bells ringing for anyone who is aware that we have more left backs than we do strikers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 19:31:36 GMT
Basically none of us have a clue what goes on but usually a HoR identifies suitable players then it's up to the manager to decide if he wants them signed or not. I've never heard of a HoR going out and signing players w/o any input from the manager at lower league level. The imbalance in the squad is solely down to BG hence why he's been sacked. Then you’d have to wonder why the head of recruitment gave the squad resounding backing after the manager was sacked. Unless he’s lying he thinks it’s the best squad we’ve had since promotion, which should set alarm bells ringing for anyone who is aware that we have more left backs than we do strikers. He’s hardly going to come out and say they are sh** is he 😂
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 20:07:18 GMT
Then you’d have to wonder why the head of recruitment gave the squad resounding backing after the manager was sacked. Unless he’s lying he thinks it’s the best squad we’ve had since promotion, which should set alarm bells ringing for anyone who is aware that we have more left backs than we do strikers. He’s hardly going to come out and say they are sh** is he 😂 No, but he actually volunteered that observation iirc when it was quite easy to avoid saying anything at all. If I was in his role with the way things have gone so far I’d be keen to distance myself from the mess as much as possible rather than make claims like that especially considering previous squads have had players like Taylor, Bodin, Harrison and JCH in them while this squad has...err...I mean....but yeah, it’s brilliant, like.
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Post by gasincider on Nov 29, 2020 11:52:23 GMT
Can anyone think of a reason why it was announced in June that the club’s debt to Dwane Sports Ltd had been cleared through a capitalisation of the loan when that had not actually taken place ? And why over five months later, according to Companies House, the loan to Dwane Sports and their charge over the Mem is still in place ? Has it been decided to abandon the debt clearing exercise and if so why has no announcement been made ? Swiss you have beaten that drum on the other forum for months and you still haven’t bothered to ask that question of the club? Why not? Or are you going to avoid that question like the presidents club ignore the one about how many members they have? Strange that a bloke who has pretensions of being a fans director won't show willing and ask it himself. Mind you he probably knows the answer as Wael tells him everything. While on the subject, if you can get yourself to ask him, ask him who owns the club as well!
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Post by gasincider on Nov 29, 2020 11:54:11 GMT
I like the way that Gorringe and Widdrington have earned the trust of Wael and their places on the board through their performance at the club. Widdrington. Isn't that the guy who is as culpable for the farcical changes in playing staff as Garner? Nice to be rewarded for failure. But then we have a history of that.
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Post by gasincider on Nov 29, 2020 11:57:19 GMT
If by yes men, you mean men who agree with the direction the club is going then i suppose you are correct, but is it not better to have every one pulling in the same positive direction than having constant complaining and moaning about every decision taken as is the case with ,(and i am sorry to stray into politics buts its the best analogy i can think of, ) Covid strategy where every one thinks they have a better plan instead of getting behind what we are trying to do? I have been wondering what happened to the s/c elections though, any one know? perhaps that subject needs a new thread?My assumption is they've been delayed because of the Pandemic. A bit more clarity around the situation by the SC would be appreciated though. Can we also assume that the capitalisation of the debt is also due to the pandemic? A bit more clarity around that situation would be appreciated. Of course it's not, so why hasn't it been done? Strange how many on here were quick to say well done Wael for clearing the debt, now it doesn't seem to matter.
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Post by gashead1981 on Nov 29, 2020 14:06:59 GMT
Swiss you have beaten that drum on the other forum for months and you still haven’t bothered to ask that question of the club? Why not? Or are you going to avoid that question like the presidents club ignore the one about how many members they have? Strange that a bloke who has pretensions of being a fans director won't show willing and ask it himself. Mind you he probably knows the answer as Wael tells him everything. While on the subject, if you can get yourself to ask him, ask him who owns the club as well! I’m not the fans director am I though, so I have no authority to ask anything on behalf of anyone or for myself, and if I did, there is no guarantee I would be told anything and if I was, I would more than likely choose not to post it here anyway. On the subject, Wael said he is going to do it, I’m happy to wait for that to be done and if he doesn’t I’m sure he will tell us why. That’s where me and you are different GI, I don’t need my ego massaged to the extent that I need to come on here and blab anything I may know and I also have a bit of patience for some things to come to fruition without shooting my gums off at the owner and making myself look numpty. But you carry on. I’ve always wondered why people like you and Swiss, expert financial advisors and accountants with a high regard for our club but a low regard for the people running it, don’t put yourselves forward for the fans director position so you can hold these people to account yourselves and satisfy your delusions of grandeur at the same time?
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 29, 2020 14:32:30 GMT
I like the way that Gorringe and Widdrington have earned the trust of Wael and their places on the board through their performance at the club. Widdrington. Isn't that the guy who is as culpable for the farcical changes in playing staff as Garner? Nice to be rewarded for failure. But then we have a history of that. Then again perhaps we had a clown as manager and now that we've appointed an experienced manager he'll confirm what most of us genuine fans thought, we'd signed some decent players in the summer.
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