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Post by alanrg on Nov 23, 2020 23:58:51 GMT
One thing 4 sure we need 2 test the opposition goalkeeper far more
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 0:07:06 GMT
It was 2-1 until late on when balders dropped a short one to Anssi in the 95th minute. We had 2 shots on target and they had 4 with possession fairly even. It was incredibly close until then and we were on the back of a 5 game unbeaten run. What more do you want, Jam on it? I thought we played well first half, but the difference in class was very clear in the second half and looking at how easily they opened up a 2 goal margin it puts our first half performance into context- we were playing a Hull team that weren’t at the races. The manager made the triple sub and it was game over after that. You’re sounding like Garner, clinging to all the stats apart from the one that matters: Rovers 1 - Hull 3 and it was a pretty fair reflection given how badly we defended all 3 goals. Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 2:02:39 GMT
I thought we played well first half, but the difference in class was very clear in the second half and looking at how easily they opened up a 2 goal margin it puts our first half performance into context- we were playing a Hull team that weren’t at the races. The manager made the triple sub and it was game over after that. You’re sounding like Garner, clinging to all the stats apart from the one that matters: Rovers 1 - Hull 3 and it was a pretty fair reflection given how badly we defended all 3 goals. Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. We were playing poor teams though. I mean yeah, we could have gambled on the basis of Garner’s points return in a month and kept him hoping he wins enough to stay up but the board obviously didn’t want to just stay up, which is why they fired Garner. Seems like the correct decision for me if only because he has never really got to grips with the defence and failed to demonstrate any in-game management that made a difference. I’ll bet his excuses wore thin with them like it did with the fans too. He’s not really a manager and you will struggle to find a chairman who would give Garner another shot at management. But that being said it’s all very well the board having ambition and deciding Garner hadn’t done enough even with that minor run of results in a month but have they replaced him properly? And are the players even up to it? The whole lot is a mess imo.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 7:28:44 GMT
Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. We were playing poor teams though. I mean yeah, we could have gambled on the basis of Garner’s points return in a month and kept him hoping he wins enough to stay up but the board obviously didn’t want to just stay up, which is why they fired Garner. Seems like the correct decision for me if only because he has never really got to grips with the defence and failed to demonstrate any in-game management that made a difference. I’ll bet his excuses wore thin with them like it did with the fans too. He’s not really a manager and you will struggle to find a chairman who would give Garner another shot at management. But that being said it’s all very well the board having ambition and deciding Garner hadn’t done enough even with that minor run of results in a month but have they replaced him properly? And are the players even up to it? The whole lot is a mess imo. The whole thing being a mess is one thing we can agree on. We need accountability from within the club. In the meantime it’s back PT and the players to the hilt for now
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 7:31:33 GMT
Just on the defensive point I can’t remember a game where we conceded more than one against a team outside of the top 10 (promotion contenders) and even the Peterborough game was two worldies.
I know it’s easy to cherry pick but we had a very good record points wise ans defensively against the teams we needed to in order to be top 14 / 12 this year.
Who would take that right now? Especially as part of a long term project.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 7:44:07 GMT
I thought we played well first half, but the difference in class was very clear in the second half and looking at how easily they opened up a 2 goal margin it puts our first half performance into context- we were playing a Hull team that weren’t at the races. The manager made the triple sub and it was game over after that. You’re sounding like Garner, clinging to all the stats apart from the one that matters: Rovers 1 - Hull 3 and it was a pretty fair reflection given how badly we defended all 3 goals. Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. Statistics are not "facts".
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 7:54:19 GMT
Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. Statistics are not "facts". Did we take 10 points out of 15 in October?
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 7:55:26 GMT
Statistics are not "facts". Did we take 10 points out of 15 in October? “Statistics are facts which are obtained from analysing information expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of times that something happens.” Collins Dictionary
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 7:57:40 GMT
Statistics are not "facts". Did we take 10 points out of 15 in October? You can prove anything with statistics. All they prove is the most reliable data from the sample set taken. You want to take October to prove your "fact" How about I take all 30 games? Or maybe I will just take the last game. Yeah, I will do that. My "fact" is that we got no points in Garners last game. That is with you?
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 7:58:37 GMT
Did we take 10 points out of 15 in October? “Statistics are facts which are obtained from analysing information expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of times that something happens.” Collins Dictionary Statistics can never "prove" anything. All a statistical test can do is assign a probability to the data you have, indicating the likelihood (or probability) that these numbers come from random fluctuations in sampling. We can all use google.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 8:04:46 GMT
Did we take 10 points out of 15 in October? You can prove anything with statistics. All they prove is the most reliable data from the sample set taken. You want to take October to prove your "fact" How about I take all 30 games? Or maybe I will just take the last game. Yeah, I will do that. My "fact" is that we got no points in Garners last game. That is with you? You are right but the period you take will always be statistically and factually correct. 2019 / 20 season the win percentage was awful, I think 11% 2020 / 21 the win percentage overall was 27% until BG left Last 10 games it was 40% These are all facts, not interpreted statistics but facts.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Nov 24, 2020 8:12:46 GMT
I thought we played well first half, but the difference in class was very clear in the second half and looking at how easily they opened up a 2 goal margin it puts our first half performance into context- we were playing a Hull team that weren’t at the races. The manager made the triple sub and it was game over after that. You’re sounding like Garner, clinging to all the stats apart from the one that matters: Rovers 1 - Hull 3 and it was a pretty fair reflection given how badly we defended all 3 goals. Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. You can keep restricting the sample set to get statistics of low sample all you like but it won’t change the fact the board who were willing to give the worst manager in our history 30 odd games (which is beyond generous) even lost patience themselves. We were on a hiding to nothing with Garner. Our only convincing result this season was Lincoln and then it was still fine margins. It was clear as day we were heading for relegation if we stuck with him. Let’s consider that 10 from 15 a bit closer. The teams we were playing, had we not got those results, we would have been in serious trouble had we not got results from them.
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Post by LJG on Nov 24, 2020 8:15:25 GMT
You can prove anything with statistics. All they prove is the most reliable data from the sample set taken. You want to take October to prove your "fact" How about I take all 30 games? Or maybe I will just take the last game. Yeah, I will do that. My "fact" is that we got no points in Garners last game. That is with you? You are right but the period you take will always be statistically and factually correct. 2019 / 20 season the win percentage was awful, I think 11% 2020 / 21 the win percentage overall was 27% until BG left Last 10 games it was 40% These are all facts, not interpreted statistics but facts. Pretty sure that interpreted statistics is exactly what they are.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 8:19:44 GMT
You can prove anything with statistics. All they prove is the most reliable data from the sample set taken. You want to take October to prove your "fact" How about I take all 30 games? Or maybe I will just take the last game. Yeah, I will do that. My "fact" is that we got no points in Garners last game. That is with you? You are right but the period you take will always be statistically and factually correct. 2019 / 20 season the win percentage was awful, I think 11% 2020 / 21 the win percentage overall was 27% until BG left Last 10 games it was 40% These are all facts, not interpreted statistics but facts. Statistics *may* be factual in themselves but they do not prove anything without interpretation. It's a fact that 50% of the people involved enjoy mugging. Your sample size is flawed when you attempt to use your "facts" to prove Garner was successful in any way at winning football matches.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 8:21:52 GMT
Another name for stats is ‘facts’. The facts are we had 11 players that were unbeaten in 5 games and took 10 points out of 15 in October. Play them and we stay up. Mess around with it and it may work in time but it could be too late. You can keep restricting the sample set to get statistics of low sample all you like but it won’t change the fact the board who were willing to give the worst manager in our history 30 odd games (which is beyond generous) even lost patience themselves. We were on a hiding to nothing with Garner. Our only convincing result this season was Lincoln and then it was still fine margins. It was clear as day we were heading for relegation if we stuck with him. Let’s consider that 10 from 15 a bit closer. The teams we were playing, had we not got those results, we would have been in serious trouble had we not got results from them. I’m separating opinion from fact. Some people like a manager some dont. The facts are what they are...you can’t start adding goals in or points for the other teams. The games we won, lost and Drew are facts. The points total and goals scored / conceded are facts. Being fed up or not liking someone is a terrible way to make a massive decision for the football club. Moving forward we have 11 players that got us 10 Points out of 15 and conceded on average less than 1 goal a game against teams around us. Play them, build them with confidence and we stay up.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 8:26:58 GMT
You can keep restricting the sample set to get statistics of low sample all you like but it won’t change the fact the board who were willing to give the worst manager in our history 30 odd games (which is beyond generous) even lost patience themselves. We were on a hiding to nothing with Garner. Our only convincing result this season was Lincoln and then it was still fine margins. It was clear as day we were heading for relegation if we stuck with him. Let’s consider that 10 from 15 a bit closer. The teams we were playing, had we not got those results, we would have been in serious trouble had we not got results from them. I’m separating opinion from fact. Some people like a manager some dont. The facts are what they are...you can’t start adding goals in or points for the other teams. The games we won, lost and Drew are facts. The points total and goals scored / conceded are facts. Being fed up or not liking someone is a terrible way to make a massive decision for the football club. Moving forward we have 11 players that got us 10 Points out of 15 and conceded on average less than 1 goal a game against teams around us. Play them, build them with confidence and we stay up. No, what you are doing is selecting a set of statistics to prove an opinion you already hold. You introduce a bias in your interpretation and therefore it cannot and should not be considered a fact.
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Post by bluebiro on Nov 24, 2020 8:41:36 GMT
If garner had been in charge until the end of the season then we wouldn't have lost to one team below us.
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 8:57:38 GMT
If garner had been in charge until the end of the season then we wouldn't have lost to one team below us. In complete agreement, the bloke was completely out of his depth. His win percentage of 20.6% is the fourth worst of any permeant manager in the clubs history (behind Martin Dobson 8.3% in 22 fewer games, Dave Penney 15.4% in 21 fewer games and Terry Cooper 19.1%). People writing off last season is one of the main reasons we're in this situation as, for that matter is the Sunderland result which papered over a shed load of cracks. If we'd gone into Lockdown off the back of a defeat to Southend, yes, Southend then the narrative would have been completely different. As is we've thrown a load of money at an inexperienced and imbalanced squad with players on three year contracts and, well, we're f**ked. If Tisdale does get us safe and by a reasonable distance he'd have done an outstanding job.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 9:11:39 GMT
If garner had been in charge until the end of the season then we wouldn't have lost to one team below us. Yes, I am suggesting that. It probably wouldn’t happen but we may have got close. It is an opinion based on decent, accurate statistics. We had / have a team that very recently could stand up to teams around them, win games and concede few. BG is gone and that’s that but PT has been thrust into two / three six pointers with no time on the grass and a team that has played 3 games in 8 days due to the inexplicable decision to play a first team in the pizza cup.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 9:12:01 GMT
If garner had been in charge until the end of the season then we wouldn't have lost to one team below us. Yes, I am suggesting that. It probably wouldn’t happen but we may have got close. It is an opinion based on decent, accurate statistics. We had / have a team that very recently could stand up to teams around them, win games and concede few. BG is gone and that’s that but PT has been thrust into two / three six pointers with no time on the grass and a team that has played 3 games in 8 days due to the inexplicable decision to play a first team in the pizza cup.
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