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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 9:25:40 GMT
If garner had been in charge until the end of the season then we wouldn't have lost to one team below us. Yes, I am suggesting that. It probably wouldn’t happen but we may have got close. It is an opinion based on decent, accurate statistics. We had / have a team that very recently could stand up to teams around them, win games and concede few. BG is gone and that’s that but PT has been thrust into two / three six pointers with no time on the grass and a team that has played 3 games in 8 days due to the inexplicable decision to play a first team in the pizza cup. Garner's points per game was 0.911, over the course of a 46 game season that's 41.94 points (let's for the sake of argument round that up to 42). That points tally would have seen us relegated every season this century in an average place of 22nd.
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 9:50:15 GMT
Yes, I am suggesting that. It probably wouldn’t happen but we may have got close. It is an opinion based on decent, accurate statistics. We had / have a team that very recently could stand up to teams around them, win games and concede few. BG is gone and that’s that but PT has been thrust into two / three six pointers with no time on the grass and a team that has played 3 games in 8 days due to the inexplicable decision to play a first team in the pizza cup. Garner's points per game was 0.911, over the course of a 46 game season that's 41.94 points (let's for the sake of argument round that up to 42). That points tally would have seen us relegated every season this century in an average place of 22nd. We had 12 points in 11 games this season before BG departed
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Post by utg4eva on Nov 24, 2020 9:51:13 GMT
1.09 x 46 = 50 points
Where would that put us?
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 9:53:58 GMT
1.09 x 46 = 50 points Where would that put us? Ah you're one of those people who don't think last season counted.
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Post by bluebiro on Nov 24, 2020 9:58:48 GMT
1.09 x 46 = 50 points Where would that put us? Ah you're one of those people who don't think last season counted. it only counts if garner won a game
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Post by gasandelectricity on Nov 24, 2020 9:59:34 GMT
1.09 x 46 = 50 points Where would that put us? Uhhh, relegation? Doesn’t look good even if you chop it up that way.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 10:00:26 GMT
1.09 x 46 = 50 points Where would that put us? Ah you're one of those people who don't think last season counted. He is one of those people who either doesn't understand statistical analysis or is willfully misusing statistics to fit a desired outcome, which is not how statistics should be used to make factual claims.
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 10:02:23 GMT
Ah you're one of those people who don't think last season counted. He is one of those people who either doesn't understand statistical analysis or is willfully misusing statistics to fit a desired outcome, which is not how statistics should be used to make factual claims. If you look at Garner's FA Cup record this season it points to Rovers winning the whole thing under him.
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Post by bluebiro on Nov 24, 2020 10:04:06 GMT
He is one of those people who either doesn't understand statistical analysis or is willfully misusing statistics to fit a desired outcome, which is not how statistics should be used to make factual claims. If you look at Garner's FA Cup record this season it points to Rovers winning the whole thing under him. that nailed.on they changed the name of the competition to the garner cup
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Post by playtowin on Nov 24, 2020 10:12:17 GMT
And when did they play for Rovers ? I never said they have. I was responding to the original point saying "I think to do well in this league you need 2 players in midfield who will tackle and bully and run around closing down a lot." I see. I was making the point from a rovers perspective.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 24, 2020 10:35:26 GMT
He is one of those people who either doesn't understand statistical analysis or is willfully misusing statistics to fit a desired outcome, which is not how statistics should be used to make factual claims. If you look at Garner's FA Cup record this season it points to Rovers winning the whole thing under him. To be fair our first half performance at Walsall was probably the best we've seen in a cup match for years! You do wonder if we'd played a team like Shrewsbury rather than Fleetwood the following Saturday whether BG would still be in a job. He was given a shocking hand when it came to early season league fixtures.
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 10:50:23 GMT
If you look at Garner's FA Cup record this season it points to Rovers winning the whole thing under him. To be fair our first half performance at Walsall was probably the best we've seen in a cup match for years! You do wonder if we'd played a team like Shrewsbury rather than Fleetwood the following Saturday whether BG would still be in a job. He was given a shocking hand when it came to early season league fixtures. He also started this season with a record of P13 W2 D3 L8, was one minute off the longest period the club has ever gone without scoring a goal, had never won a cup game, had the worst form of any team in the country as well as the worst position fall in 2020, and was then given a huge budget to rebuild the side. I am so glad he's gone.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 10:51:22 GMT
We were playing poor teams though. I mean yeah, we could have gambled on the basis of Garner’s points return in a month and kept him hoping he wins enough to stay up but the board obviously didn’t want to just stay up, which is why they fired Garner. Seems like the correct decision for me if only because he has never really got to grips with the defence and failed to demonstrate any in-game management that made a difference. I’ll bet his excuses wore thin with them like it did with the fans too. He’s not really a manager and you will struggle to find a chairman who would give Garner another shot at management. But that being said it’s all very well the board having ambition and deciding Garner hadn’t done enough even with that minor run of results in a month but have they replaced him properly? And are the players even up to it? The whole lot is a mess imo. The whole thing being a mess is one thing we can agree on. We need accountability from within the club. In the meantime it’s back PT and the players to the hilt for now We can agree on that too- PT is not my choice for the job but we simply have to stay up because we more than most know how difficult it is to steady the ship after relegation. We need the footballing side of the club to step up, starting with tonight.
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Post by RD on Nov 24, 2020 11:47:55 GMT
Garner's points per game was 0.911, over the course of a 46 game season that's 41.94 points (let's for the sake of argument round that up to 42). That points tally would have seen us relegated every season this century in an average place of 22nd. We had 12 points in 11 games this season before BG departed Ben, You can't have it both ways. If you want to ignore last season (which is ridiculous but we'll go with it), the FACT is that this, at the time of your sacking, we had the following: Played 11, points 12. Extrapolate that over the course of a season and we'd get 50 points. That would very possibly see us relegated. Those are the facts. If you pick a part of the sample, it may well be a "fact", but you're doing it to fit your viewpoint and match your agenda. Look, you gave it your best shot, but ultimately it didn't work out. Using your logic, Widdrington would have played 46, won 46 and got us 138 points. Why on earth would you be making the case for yourself when we clearly have someone far superior anyway when we apply the same basis?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 12:13:17 GMT
Garner's points per game was 0.911, over the course of a 46 game season that's 41.94 points (let's for the sake of argument round that up to 42). That points tally would have seen us relegated every season this century in an average place of 22nd. We had 12 points in 11 games this season before BG departed We haven’t seen what Tisdale can do yet in 11 games. Seems odd to give BG a particular month as proof he would keep us up when PT is being judged based on one game. Maybe if Tisdale takes nothing from his first 12 we can revisit whether it was right to sack Garner. But even then I would argue the board have a knack of appointing sh**e managers and signing crap players more than “we should have kept Garner”
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 24, 2020 12:34:55 GMT
Interesting conversation! I guess the real facts are we’re in 21st place with 12 points from 12 games and a -9 goal difference. Our record of w3, d3 and l6 without a win in our last five games is down to BG, except for the last match. Another fact is that Paul Tisdale is our manager. My opinion/ interpretation is that to have a -9 after 12 matches when we’ve lost half of them is very poor. We’ve only lost 3 more than we’ve won yet have a -9 difference, a few heavy defeats in there. That worries me more about character than ability. As with every other manager Tis will need to get some wins ASAP to stop us getting into a relegation fight. I think, (therefore opinion) we’ve got some technically good players but hope they can show a bit of fight to get us up the table. For that we may need a change or two. UTG!
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Post by lastminutewinner on Nov 24, 2020 14:42:24 GMT
If you look at Garner's FA Cup record this season it points to Rovers winning the whole thing under him. To be fair our first half performance at Walsall was probably the best we've seen in a cup match for years! You do wonder if we'd played a team like Shrewsbury rather than Fleetwood the following Saturday whether BG would still be in a job. He was given a shocking hand when it came to early season league fixtures. But these are the clubs we should be (at the very least) competing with given the players he was allowed to bring in, not getting smashed by Ipswich, Fleetwood and Donny and comfortably beaten by Posh and Hull
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Nov 24, 2020 14:45:34 GMT
To be fair our first half performance at Walsall was probably the best we've seen in a cup match for years! You do wonder if we'd played a team like Shrewsbury rather than Fleetwood the following Saturday whether BG would still be in a job. He was given a shocking hand when it came to early season league fixtures. But these are the clubs we should be (at the very least) competing with given the players he was allowed to bring in, not getting smashed by Ipswich, Fleetwood and Donny and comfortably beaten by Posh and Hull You could argue that we were hammered by Shrewsbury too but got a win!
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 14:46:50 GMT
To be fair our first half performance at Walsall was probably the best we've seen in a cup match for years! You do wonder if we'd played a team like Shrewsbury rather than Fleetwood the following Saturday whether BG would still be in a job. He was given a shocking hand when it came to early season league fixtures. But these are the clubs we should be (at the very least) competing with given the players he was allowed to bring in, not getting smashed by Ipswich, Fleetwood and Donny and comfortably beaten by Posh and Hull In complete agreement. I don't expect us to beat the "top" teams in our league but, I do expect us to put up a fight and occasionally get results.
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Post by chewbacca on Nov 24, 2020 14:48:02 GMT
But these are the clubs we should be (at the very least) competing with given the players he was allowed to bring in, not getting smashed by Ipswich, Fleetwood and Donny and comfortably beaten by Posh and Hull You could argue that we were hammered by Shrewsbury too but got a win! Harsh. We dominated possession 35% of the time.
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