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Post by Gastafari on Dec 7, 2020 1:57:13 GMT
This is why I despise BLM the organisation, its a complete sham.
You just have to look at their manifesto, dismantling capitalism, disrupting the nucleur family structure and defunding the Police.
They are complete oxymorons and they will affect the Black community more than anybody else.
Why on earth would BLM if they really cared about the majority of Black lives want to disrupt the nucleur family structure of 2 parent households when 66% of Black kids are already being born into single mum households on Welfare?
Why on earth would BLM want to defund the Police if they really cared about the majority of Black lives, when its already hard enough when in places like Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit and Milwaukee for example have some of the worst murder rates in the whole world. Who are commiting all these murders? They're killing themselves, its not baying mobs of racist White folk with pitchforks hunting them down.
BLM don't give a flying f*ck about these issues, of course not it doesnt fit the agenda.
This was all kicked off because a prolific felon died at the knee of 1 cop, which is as rare as being struck by lightning.
I think being anti racist is as normal as being anti Paedophilia. Racism is abhorrent and of course Black Lives Matter but I would never support the sham organisation.
Like I said they deserve kudos for the slogan, it's a powerful message, which the majority of people absolutely agree with.
The organisation however created by militant, Marxist, Lesbians who despise men, and their shoddy manifesto, can do one quite frankly.
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Post by William Wilson on Dec 7, 2020 8:34:36 GMT
This won't be popular but I'm not a fan of the packaging of the BLM movement in the slightest. The reason for this is that it's approach actually comes across as divisive. The whole approach is focussed at singling out a particular ethnicity and whilst I totally appreciate the argument that it's an ethnicity which has been particularly discriminated against and that they've had a particularly raw deal, you don't fight fire with fire and we need to start talking about what unites us and not what divides us. I fear that the BLM movement just drives wedges between people and doesn't build relationships. I also think it's important to focus on 'not being a dick' in general - why stop at racism? Why not sexism? Ageism? Fat shaming? I get there's context behind racism but surely the message of don't discriminate against people is a lot simpler and easier to understand if you remove all the caveats around what basis you can do it on. Further, the context behind the protests, the pulling down of statues, the links to a particular form of politics are extremely unhelpful and have left a sour taste in the mouth of some of those who would otherwise be completely behind the campaign. Indeed, there have been studies that have suggested that BLM has increased racial tensions in the United Kingdom. This cannot be good if the goal of BLM is to reduce those tensions. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/black-lives-matter-has-increased-racial-tension-55-say-in-uk-pollSo whilst I completely agree with what most people behind the cause are trying to achieve I can't help but feel, strongly, that this is the wrong vector for achieving its aims and that an alternative message which all of us can get behind is required. Unaffiliated to a particular political movement. And to add, I've refrained from chipping in before because yes, it does feel if you don't get on board with the recognised movement for this year then you're labelled as a racist and outcast socially. As a society we cannot progress if we shutdown people for not following the group think. It strikes me as rather prejudicial if anything? And it just shuts down dialogue with those who we need to convince and educate. Just because I don't like your messaging, doesn't mean I don't agree with what you're trying to achieve. Can`t find much to argue with you there. But doubtless Dirt Dogg et al, who could find racism in a cheese sandwich, will think they`ve, er, ousted another racist. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 7, 2020 9:36:27 GMT
If you’re against an anti-racism movement, that makes you racist. It’s as simple as that. There's nothing like a closed mind to make life simple |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 7, 2020 9:37:34 GMT
At least we’ve ousted some closet racists on this thread. No you havent |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 9:56:16 GMT
If you’re against an anti-racism movement, that makes you racist. It’s as simple as that. There's nothing like a closed mind to make life simple You're not wrong. |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 7, 2020 10:18:28 GMT
Why did the Premier League remove the Black Lives Matter logo from club shirts?
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Post by axegas on Dec 7, 2020 10:22:17 GMT
The only people that are tainting it with associations and that are turning it into a divisive issue are the sort of people in the Millwall crowd. If everyone is in agreement that “all lives matter” then a movement such as BLM should unite us in opposition to discrimination against black people. The kneeling is just to say black people have just as much rights as every one else its as simple as that. There is no ulterior motive to it, no politics, no message that one race needs to be talked about more than another. I don’t see what isn’t inclusive about wanting black lives to matter really. Yet a certain bunch of people want to do everything in their power to shift the argument into a political one, they want to focus on one small group that used BLM’s name for clout and had 0 affiliation with the movement or its objectives as a whole. The lazy “all lives matter” reply is just conveying their offence at black people’s discrimination being openly and publicly talked about, which they wrongly perceive to be some kind of attack on themselves. I’ll be deeply ashamed as a Rovers supporter if I hear/see any booing or dissent next time we’re back on the terraces at the mem. That’s not quite true- it was BLM U.K. who stated in their manifesto on their website and from their verified Twitter account that their aim was to dismantle the structures of capitalism - BLM U.K. doesn’t sound like some fringe organisation (as I understand it BLM worldwide is made up of regional sub-organisations) so it’s fairly clear how people could associate BLM with a threat to their way of life (especially the posters on this forum who make no secret of their fear of Marxism and reds under the bed) and reject any form of protest that is done in the name of Black Lives Matter. As such it’s your right to feel ashamed but I assume you would feel ashamed because you would assume them to be racist? People booing because they wanted to express their opposition to a stated intention to dismantle capitalism is people standing up for their convictions and whilst I don’t necessarily veer towards the area of the political spectrum that fears Marxism I can still support their right to that dissent if done for that reason. And that’s the key point- we don’t know why people are booing. Perhaps the solution is for the FA to relaunch Kick it out with a new slogan and any pre-match rituals to raise awareness is done under that name because it then becomes less political by removing the problematic association with BLM and would then make it quite clear that any booing would be strictly an expression of opposition to raising awareness of racism. It’s sad that you’ve fallen into the trap of believing BLM is some kind of Marxist conspiracy Gas365. It’s not, its never meant to be, its merely advocating a social movement advocating the end of violence and discrimination against black people. I could call an advocacy group the British conservatives, sounds pretty mainstream right? Yet it would have a membership of 1 and would be on the scene long after the UK party with the same name existed. The players aren’t kneeling to dismantle capitalism, they’re kneeling to end systematic racism, would people boo a kick it out campaign probably not. I’m very much in favour of free speech etc but that doesn’t simply give people the right to boo anti racism campaigns and then hide behind it afterwards. Also funny how a lot of those who are so convinced that Marxism is such a threat to their way of life probably have no idea what Marx-Engels manifesto is actually about and might actually agree with some of the points raised in it, such as advocating workers rights and the abolition of child labour. I expect the same people would rally in support of Anti-Facism, which protects against an ideology that constitutes a far bigger threat to modern life? |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 7, 2020 10:30:56 GMT
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Post by gashead1981 on Dec 7, 2020 10:41:52 GMT
I think its worth remembering that in every movement or organisation you will have people take things to the extreme. BLM will be no different. Some BLM members will look down in embarrassment and shame on the ones causing trouble and these shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.
The message ultimately is to recognise an equalling of Black lives with the same respect and privileges that white (and any other socially privileged colour) lives have and for all colours of human being to stand together on the subject of racism. As I said earlier, there is no supremacy or inferiority across any colour of human being. Where we differ is the talents that each one possesses and skin colour does not determine what those talents are specifically.
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Post by althepirate on Dec 7, 2020 10:43:02 GMT
I suspect that what we are seeing now is proof of why political actions on the pitch are banned by FIFA. Have they given special dispensation for this taking the knee? There has to be a better way for football to support the cause than this pre-match pantomime bollocks. If you've got any suggestions then fire away as clearly whatever has been done up to now clearly hasn't worked. You're right all this type of stuff,like kick it out hasn't worked. The reality is life isn't perfect, never has been. It's what religion has called God and the Devil and psychologists positive and negative. It's doesn't work because to highlight a certain section of society the rest feel dismissed, so they express that and it causes division, so not only does it not work it makes it worse. Racism is just one evil in this world, there are a lot worse. Why don't we go down on one knee to draw attention to murders? Why not for rapists? If I would suggest we just did this for the murders and rapes of black people it wouldn't be difficult to see this is plainly wrong, easy to see. The problem with racism is the accusers and supporters are often wrong, as we have seen on this thread. We have just appointed a new manager. Not one forum poster suggested a black manager, why? I suggest it was because none were suitable not because of their skin colour. Although Tis born in Malta and with a slight colour,was rightly chosen because he was the most capable, this is how it should be. If we had appointed a manager who was black for the same reasons, there wouldn't be a backlash because very few people are racists. People want fairness. Genuine racism should be severely punished but let's not become divided as the power driven want. We each have an individual responsibility to each other just as we do with stopping the virus. I would like everyone to stop taking on board others opinions and think for ourselves with rationality, not to be influenced by those who have a hidden agenda, these people destroy all the good we have if we let them. |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 7, 2020 11:24:55 GMT
pirate you still haven’t answered my question . Did you formerly post as Gasheeadwes ?
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 7, 2020 11:36:11 GMT
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Dec 7, 2020 11:55:57 GMT
Well done, you've blown your cover as Ageist. I suppose that's perfectly ok in your book. It's certainly as bad as any other prejudice. Actually I wanted to know how old you were. I'm surprised you asked. Wouldn't you also like to know my skin colour, religion, wealth, sexual orientation, attitude to the opposite sex (if there is such a thing !) ? Could be lots of ammunition there.  |
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Dec 7, 2020 11:57:33 GMT
What is your suggestion? Would you rather see an alternative gesture or nothing at all? I would like to suggest Hopping. What on earth are you two talking about ? |
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 12:09:36 GMT
If you've got any suggestions then fire away as clearly whatever has been done up to now clearly hasn't worked. You're right all this type of stuff,like kick it out hasn't worked. The reality is life isn't perfect, never has been. It's what religion has called God and the Devil and psychologists positive and negative. It's doesn't work because to highlight a certain section of society the rest feel dismissed, so they express that and it causes division, so not only does it not work it makes it worse. Racism is just one evil in this world, there are a lot worse. Why don't we go down on one knee to draw attention to murders? Why not for rapists? If I would suggest we just did this for the murders and rapes of black people it wouldn't be difficult to see this is plainly wrong, easy to see. The problem with racism is the accusers and supporters are often wrong, as we have seen on this thread. We have just appointed a new manager. Not one forum poster suggested a black manager, why? I suggest it was because none were suitable not because of their skin colour. Although Tis born in Malta and with a slight colour,was rightly chosen because he was the most capable, this is how it should be. If we had appointed a manager who was black for the same reasons, there wouldn't be a backlash because very few people are racists. People want fairness. Genuine racism should be severely punished but let's not become divided as the power driven want. We each have an individual responsibility to each other just as we do with stopping the virus. I would like everyone to stop taking on board others opinions and think for ourselves with rationality, not to be influenced by those who have a hidden agenda, these people destroy all the good we have if we let them. And why do you think there are less black managers, less black people in positions of power, less black CEOs in ratio to the demographics of the UK? Do you think black people are inherently worse at those positions? What you're failing to see is that this goes much deeper than just 10 people applying for a job and you give it to the best candidate. No one has a problem with that, the problem is why are all of those candidate white? But of course, unfortunately when this discussion came up before, you categorically said 'there is no systematic or institutional racism in the UK'. You even rubbished an internal report from the NHS stating institutional racism, because you personally didn't see this issue in your work - therefore it can't be true. |
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Post by yattongas on Dec 7, 2020 12:23:41 GMT
I would like to suggest Hopping. What on earth are you two talking about ? Jumping about on one leg I think ? 🤔 |
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Dec 7, 2020 12:37:13 GMT
You're right all this type of stuff,like kick it out hasn't worked. The reality is life isn't perfect, never has been. It's what religion has called God and the Devil and psychologists positive and negative. It's doesn't work because to highlight a certain section of society the rest feel dismissed, so they express that and it causes division, so not only does it not work it makes it worse. Racism is just one evil in this world, there are a lot worse. Why don't we go down on one knee to draw attention to murders? Why not for rapists? If I would suggest we just did this for the murders and rapes of black people it wouldn't be difficult to see this is plainly wrong, easy to see. The problem with racism is the accusers and supporters are often wrong, as we have seen on this thread. We have just appointed a new manager. Not one forum poster suggested a black manager, why? I suggest it was because none were suitable not because of their skin colour. Although Tis born in Malta and with a slight colour,was rightly chosen because he was the most capable, this is how it should be. If we had appointed a manager who was black for the same reasons, there wouldn't be a backlash because very few people are racists. People want fairness. Genuine racism should be severely punished but let's not become divided as the power driven want. We each have an individual responsibility to each other just as we do with stopping the virus. I would like everyone to stop taking on board others opinions and think for ourselves with rationality, not to be influenced by those who have a hidden agenda, these people destroy all the good we have if we let them. And why do you think there are less black managers, less black people in positions of power, less black CEOs in ratio to the demographics of the UK? Do you think black people are inherently worse at those positions? What you're failing to see is that this goes much deeper than just 10 people applying for a job and you give it to the best candidate. No one has a problem with that, the problem is why are all of those candidate white? But of course, unfortunately when this discussion came up before, you categorically said 'there is no systematic or institutional racism in the UK'. You even rubbished an internal report from the NHS stating institutional racism, because you personally didn't see this issue in your work - therefore it can't be true. Could it be that it has something to do with the 80% and the 20% of the population? Anyway, sit tight, because the current TV adverts are really promoting bame by using a huge number of bame actors in the adverts. In fact one TV ad I saw yesterday had no white actors at all (may have been a Vodaphone ad)! No doubt all this is going to make a huge change in society and businesses are going to forge ahead making £££ millions, and the Brexit & Coronavirus fallout will be a piece of water. It had better.
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Post by axegas on Dec 7, 2020 12:41:09 GMT
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Post by Gassy on Dec 7, 2020 12:47:34 GMT
And why do you think there are less black managers, less black people in positions of power, less black CEOs in ratio to the demographics of the UK? Do you think black people are inherently worse at those positions? What you're failing to see is that this goes much deeper than just 10 people applying for a job and you give it to the best candidate. No one has a problem with that, the problem is why are all of those candidate white? But of course, unfortunately when this discussion came up before, you categorically said 'there is no systematic or institutional racism in the UK'. You even rubbished an internal report from the NHS stating institutional racism, because you personally didn't see this issue in your work - therefore it can't be true. Could it be that it has something to do with the 80% and the 20% of the population? Anyway, sit tight, because the current TV adverts are really promoting bame by using a huge number of bame actors in the adverts. In fact one TV ad I saw yesterday had no white actors at all (may have been a Vodaphone ad)! No doubt all this is going to make a huge change in society and businesses are going to forge ahead making £££ millions, and the Brexit & Coronavirus fallout will be a piece of Wee wee. It had better.
Yes, but you seem to have missed the point - we don't see 20% represented in positions of power, do we? In the UKs most powerful list, 96% are white - as a quick example. Did you feel misrepresented by those adverts? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 12:50:38 GMT
It's sad that it's got to that point isn't it, but it makes clear that racists aren't welcome at his football club. If you protest against black players finally making a stand against racism then you are either a racist or a dangerous idiot, it's as simple as that. |
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