Taking of the Knee

Can you try to actually debate the issue without putting words into other people's mouths please? 

If society was truly equal, then we'd see roughly the figures would reflect that. If it's 80% white in the UK, then we'd see that in positions of leadership. But do we? No. That is a fact. I don't believe in quotas, nor have I ever suggested that I do. Enough would represent the 80% of white people, which it doesn't. Why do you think that is?

I'm glad you've mentioned education, because it actually backs up my point further. If you look at the statistics, white attendees take up roughly 80% of university places, in the last 10 years it has fallen from 81% to 77%. If black people are overrepresented in higher education, why do we not see those figures transcend into positions of power? Why is it that from 80% of white people attending education, 96% of them actually go into leadership? 

When it comes to playing sports, it is in a different field to leadership and positions of power, unless you're suggesting black people are worse at leadership.. (see, I can put things in people's mouth too). But of course, I'm sure you're not. You've singled handedly managed to pick 557 premier league players, 1,500 EFL players, 450 NBA players & 10 sprinters as a representative of the entire black population of the UK. Do you honestly think that is a fair reflection? What % of black people in the UK are EFL, Prem or Olympic sprinters? 0.1% if you're lucky? Hardly a fair representation. 

But you're right, equality of opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome, but statistically speaking it should be closer in the general population. 

I’m not going to argue with their representation within the structures of power, just make the observation that this isn’t necessarily just a black issue though. Just taking politics as an example iirc private schools are massively over-represented at MP level. No-one really cares about that though when arguing about representation, it’s always couched as black VS white.

For me (to use a very awful phrase for brevity) we should be trying to “level up” everyone when it comes to representation at the top tiers of society. Poor white people have been locked out too, not to the same degree granted but the blacks and whites who don’t come from a background of privilege need to have more confidence that they can get influential jobs on their own ability and merit and not as a product of who they know or what colour their tie was.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that in terms of jobs that steer the direction of the country the glass ceiling is not strictly a race issue- it’s a class one.

When players first started taking the knee, I found it to be both emotive and thought provoking. However, as it continued over many months the effect was diluted, and now, to me, it's just part of the matchday ritual, like players shaking hands, the toss of the coin etc - it doesn't particularly register.

I'd prefer to see clubs doing more work with the disadvantaged sections of the community (yes, I know that we do loads already), but if players care that much they can give up a bit more of their free time. Get something different on the pitch, penalty shoot-outs featuring groups that the club are working with, with somebody on the mic talking about how the club has been involved. I'd pay much more attention to that, and am much more interested in being informed about the steps the club are taking to address inequality, than seeing a 20 second gesture repeated ad infinitum.

Apologies if that makes me a racist.

Nothing wrong with thinking it’s overrun a bit and can’t go on for ever . Milwall and the other clubs fans who booed it weren’t doing it because they were bored of it , or because of Marxists or other conflated nonsense.

Unfortunately efforts to do those things you have suggested to address racism didn't seem to work. Hence the direct action being taken.

Maybe they could do a raffle to end racism?

That would be better than a global signal by all players?

Apologies, I couldn't help myself.

Well, at least debate is being had... It is truly tedius but not bad for a footy forum.

“Direct action” - gimme a break

“It’s just printing T-shirts” - Dion Dublin

Why ?

I think you make some good points, Tilly. Probably it has worn down a bit now and I don't think anyone would disagree that clubs and players could/should be doing more. Especially the players. 365 and I were discussing a while ago the example of Rashford and what a player can do if they put their mind to it. Imagine if just 1% of PL players did what Rashford has done over the last few months.

But unfortunately, this doesn't happen enough. We all know that the Millwall fans weren't booing because they're bored of people taking the knee - would you boo it? People here glorify the kick it out campaign as if it had worked wonders, did it? Pretty sure most of us just remember the t-shirts and it pretty much became like taking the knee is now, ignored.

The part I find interesting is when people pick specific parts of BLM, and choose that to rubbish the entire campaign. I'm pretty sure every person on this thread has at least 1 thing they don't like about the party they voted for at the last election. But we all still voted for them, because we saw the bigger picture of what we believed to be right. So when I see people using anti-capitalism as a bat to bash the fact that we still have racism in football and they actively speak out against supporting players making a token gesture, it makes you wonder if it's really the gesture, or something else.